Mmm next time someone does a kit I may have to try it.
Lapping film, try it.
- Thread starter Blix
- Start date
I'll trade you my films for your coti. I am kind of the opposite, I have never gotten a good edge from a film, and haven't tried too hard since I have such good luck with stones.
rickboone1 is out now, but has anybody given ottofrei.com a shot? They appear to sell packs (and singles) of lapping film and all kinds of other good polishing compounds and such. Prices are good, but shipping is steep. Still, it's nearly impossible to buy without a 25-50 minimum order almost everywhere else.
Ok gents so last night I had my very first lapping film honing session, my first honing session of any kind period.
I followed @noahphotos steps:
1K wet/dry sandpaper 90 laps
6 or 5 micron ~ 60 laps
3 micron ~ 60 laps
1 micron ~ 60 laps
1 micron ~ 30 laps (paper underneath)
CrOx ~ 15 laps
Iron Ox ~ 15 laps
Leather Strop ~ 60 laps
I had to do the 1K step twice, since after the first 90 laps it would not shave arm hair off.
Well, I only partially succeeded, half my blade passes the HHT with flying colours and the other half is not very sharp.
So my question is, should I try to set the bevel againg with 1K paper, or 1200 grit paper or even 1500?
I followed @noahphotos steps:
1K wet/dry sandpaper 90 laps
6 or 5 micron ~ 60 laps
3 micron ~ 60 laps
1 micron ~ 60 laps
1 micron ~ 30 laps (paper underneath)
CrOx ~ 15 laps
Iron Ox ~ 15 laps
Leather Strop ~ 60 laps
I had to do the 1K step twice, since after the first 90 laps it would not shave arm hair off.
Well, I only partially succeeded, half my blade passes the HHT with flying colours and the other half is not very sharp.
So my question is, should I try to set the bevel againg with 1K paper, or 1200 grit paper or even 1500?
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
After the 1k wet/dry, did the entire edge shave arm hair easily? The most common reason for failure is simply not getting a good ent to end bevel in the first place. An arbitrary number of laps at any one stage is only going to work when that number of laps is all the razor needs. There are other diagnostic tools you can use, as well. Some honers will spoil the edge by running it over a beer bottle lightly, one pass only, and ensuring that the edge does NOT shave arm hair. Then, when after setting the bevel it DOES shave arm hair, you know that the edge you have is the one you put on the blade. Also there is the Sharpie test. Paint the edge on both sides with a sharpie marker. Hit your bevel setter with one or two light laps only, and then examine the bevel under a bright light with a magnifying glass. Obviously wherever you see ink, that part did not contact the honing surface. One method that I favor for setting the initial bevel is to raise a burr on both sides of the edge. To do this, you hone only ONE side of the blade, as many laps as it takes, until you have a burr on the opposite side of the edge running the full length. The burr is simply displaced steel, and if you run your fingertip lightly off the edge as if driving off a cliff, you will feel a tiny catch, like a hook. Feel the other side and it won't be there. Flip the blade and hone the same number of laps on the other side, and you should feel the burr on the opposite side. If you have observed the burr on both sides, along the entire length of the edge, you can then proceed to hone the burr away with regular alternating laps, using light pressure. Typically 40 or 50 laps. What this does is erase all doubt that you have set a proper bevel. You should only have to do this once for a given blade. Some guys scream and holler that this just isn't necessary for setting the bevel, and I agree... it is NOT neccessary for setting the bevel. Ordinary alternating laps will do that. The burr method goes beyond merely setting the bevel, by indicating to you that the bevel is set. It is important to KNOW that your bevel is set. Never proceed to a finer grit unless you are certain that the previous one has done its work fully and completely! At each stage, check your edge if there is the slightest doubt. You must see improvement along the entire edge. The HHT works well for this.
If you are sure that your bevel was set properly, I would suspect the 5u stage. Double your laps there, and test before and after with the HHT. Be sure to verify improvement over the entire edge. It is a big jump from 1k to 5u. 5u is roughly equivenalt to a 4k Norton, so you are quadrupling the grit rating, approximately. This is okay, and in fact it is normal procedure. Just be aware that this is a big jump and a weak point in the normal progression. From 4k to 8k you are only doubling the grit rating. The 3u film is roughly 8k ANSI grit. The 1u is roughly 14k ANSI grit, or about the same as a 12k Naniwa which uses the JIS grit rating system. Here, you are less than doubling. But 1k to 4k, or I should say 1k to 5u, is the biggest jump. So try more laps at that stage for sure.
It could be that you are using uneven pressure, lifting the heel of the blade slightly when honing, or levering the toe upward off the film. You didn't say what part of the blade didn't get sharp. This is a matter of the way you hold the razor, the bend of the wrist and how you stroke the razor along the film. The quickest way to overcome this is to not let your lapping plate rest on a solid surface, but to hold it loosely in your off hand, instead. This allows the blade and the honing surface to find their own alignment. It helps you to regulate pressure and ensure proper distribution of it. You will probably find you get much better results this way. The plate must not touch any object or any part of your body, nor should the hand or arm holding it touch anything. You want it to be as if it were floating in space.
Good luck and happy shaves! Don't give up... films are easy to learn on. You can do this.
Now that I think back, it did shave arm hair but I did not test the whole blade, just the toe end of it. From the middle to the toe it is sharp, but from the middle to the heel is where is lacking.
Feel the other side and it won't be there. Flip the blade and hone the same number of laps on the other side, and you should feel the burr on the opposite side. If you have observed the burr on both sides, along the entire length of the edge, you can then proceed to hone the burr away with regular alternating laps, using light pressure. Typically 40 or 50 laps. What this does is erase all doubt that you have set a proper bevel.
I will try that, I have seen your videos and found them very useful to demonstrate this technique
So try more laps at that stage for sure
I will
You want it to be as if it were floating in space.
I don't think I applied much pressure, but I will be extra careful next time.
Good luck and happy shaves! Don't give up... films are easy to learn on. You can do this.
I will not give up! Thanks for the encouragement and for the very informative reply to my question.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Ah... sharp toe, dull heel? Sometimes this is from letting the shoulder ride up onto the honing surface. That will lift the heel from the hone, and press the toe down onto it. Also a blade that has a lot of wear will sometimes develop sort of a ramp at the shoulder and even if the actual shoulder is not on the hone, that ramp might be. Same result except the effect is less pronounced and can be hard to identify. You can hone with the heel leading and that will put the shoulder further off the hone. Sharpie test on spine as well as bevel will tell the tale.
I DID IT!!!!!
I followed Slash' recos and watched his videos a bunch of times and I was actually able to put a nice edge on my Puma, I shaved with it this morning and at first I thought it was not cutting since it felt like the razor was just gliding over my skin, but I checked the lather with my fingers and I could not believe my eyes! The lather even looked greyish with all my whiskers mixed in there!
I followed the burr method, I actually had to do 300 half laps before I could feel it, I did the 300 on the other side and then 50 laps and so on with all the progression. I feel great knowing that I can be self sufficient on honing my razors.
Thanks @slash mccoy, @shakin_jake, @seraphim, @doc226 and everyone else who shared tips and info on this board
I followed Slash' recos and watched his videos a bunch of times and I was actually able to put a nice edge on my Puma, I shaved with it this morning and at first I thought it was not cutting since it felt like the razor was just gliding over my skin, but I checked the lather with my fingers and I could not believe my eyes! The lather even looked greyish with all my whiskers mixed in there!
I followed the burr method, I actually had to do 300 half laps before I could feel it, I did the 300 on the other side and then 50 laps and so on with all the progression. I feel great knowing that I can be self sufficient on honing my razors.
Thanks @slash mccoy, @shakin_jake, @seraphim, @doc226 and everyone else who shared tips and info on this board
Nice job!
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Hah! Feels good, don't it?
I found a source for lapping films at http://www.fiberoptics4sale.com/
They have AlOx and diamond, and the prices seem very good at $2.00 - $3.00 per sheet for 9" x 13" AlOx. And no minimum. Mine shipped one day after I ordered it.
They have AlOx and diamond, and the prices seem very good at $2.00 - $3.00 per sheet for 9" x 13" AlOx. And no minimum. Mine shipped one day after I ordered it.
That's just cool. It's such a huge breakthrough for us all; to get that first edge that feels so sweet is just empowering. The bold parts above make me smile the most, especially the thanks for @doc226 helping you with films
Lately I find edges honed with soapy water (12µ ending with 1µ) smoother than ones honed with plain water. Has anyone else noticed this or discovered any other tricks?
Lots of places. I got mine here ,, plus free shipping.
http://www.precisionfiberproducts.com/ccp0-catshow/PolishingFilm-Sheets.html
http://www.precisionfiberproducts.com/ccp0-catshow/PolishingFilm-Sheets.html
Doc is an unrepentant lapping film heretic.
There is a slim chance for his redemption.
Very slim.
There is a slim chance for his redemption.
Very slim.
PicoPaper under the 1um along with the soapy water.
PicoPaperMojo.
That's just cool. It's such a huge breakthrough for us all; to get that first edge that feels so sweet is just empowering. The bold parts above make me smile the most, especially the thanks for @doc226 helping you with films
Ha, ha, I meant to say that doc226 contributes a lot on these forums, you are correct he seems to be a hardcore stones type of honer
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