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Lapping film, try it.

C

Chico

Received to package from Rick today and he specified each color and what um they are. Couldn't wait to get started and I still had a Puma awaiting her full treatment. I followed up Slash's routine as he explained on page 2 in this thread. 'Naturally' I made a few mistakes...especially the burr pointer, I didn't do that correctly, I believe. I took the tour, going through all microns, to say so. 12, 5, 3 and 1 micron and damp paper with 1 micron. After I stropped the razor and tried a HHT. Not really there. But....couldn't wait to try it out. Shave gave a bit of a razor burn. Not that smooth.
Shall I re-do from 3 micron?

The Dovo (once beautiful honed by Doc) I did 60 laps with 3 micron and the 1 micron. Followed up with 30 laps damp paper, 1 micron. HHT not really there.

also one more question. I have a Arkie black. Can I cut the film to the size of the Arki and hone on that? I need to do X strokes then, due to the size of the stone.
 
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Slash McCoy

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Chico said:
Received to package from Rick today and he specified each color and what um they are. Couldn't wait to get started and I still had a Puma awaiting her full treatment. I followed up Slash's routine as he explained on page 2 in this thread. 'Naturally' I made a few mistakes...especially the burr pointer, I didn't do that correctly, I believe. I took the tour, going through all microns, to say so. 12, 5, 3 and 1 micron and damp paper with 1 micron. After I stropped the razor and tried a HHT. Not really there. But....couldn't wait to try it out. Shave gave a bit of a razor burn. Not that smooth.
Shall I re-do from 3 micron?

The Dovo (once beautiful honed by Doc) I did 60 laps with 3 micron and the 1 micron. Followed up with 30 laps damp paper, 1 micron. HHT not really there.

also one more question. I have a Arkie black. Can I cut the film to the size of the Arki and hone on that? I need to do X strokes then, due to the size of the stone.
Click to expand...

What about the burr on your Puma? Did you get at least partial? If the bevel is not fully set from end to end, you will never get a good edge. The bevel IS the edge. Everything else is just polishing the bevel. All the progression does is refine and finish the bevel. The real work is done in that first stage, setting the bevel. It is the heart and soul of the matter and it is absolutely essential that no corner be cut in that all-important first step. There are other ways to set your bevel but all have one thing in common: your bevel setting method must be done fully and completely and then you must positively confirm that the bevel is in every way perfect. The burr method stands out only in the degree to which you can be sure that the job is done, because the burr tells the tale. If you don't know for certain that your bevel is correctly set, then keep honing on your bevel setter until you do know it. No uncertainty can be allowed. I am almost certain that the root of your problem is a bevel that simply isn't there, at least over part of the blade.

Are you honing with the lapping plate in your off hand, or is it laying flat on a bench or table or other fixed object? You will get best results if it is held loosely in your off hand, so that it floats freely and offers no resistance to inadvertant honing pressure. Many many very light laps is a lot better than not so many heavier laps. This is true even when setting the bevel.

If you are getting a bevel at the toe but not at the heel, it is likely that the shoulder is riding up on the honing surface.

Don't use a stone for your lapping plate. One of the major advantages of lapping film is the ability to cheaply and easily have a large honing surface, wide enough to take the entire edge and long enough for a long, smooth stroke. Don't throw such a tremendous advantage away by trying to use a too-small object for a substrate. Your plate should be at least 3-1/2" wide and a minimum of 10" long. The 4" x 12" polished marble edge tile I probably mentioned is ideal. It is big, very flat, smooth, rigid, and light enough to hold in hand for extended periods.

For your dovo, if Doc honed it recently, there is probably no need to go all the way down to your bevel setter, but you might want to start with your 5u film. Be absolutely certain that your pressure is light and not biased toward spine or edge or either end. Be certain that you are not rocking the blade onto the edge. Be certain that the shoulder is not riding up on the film. Use a piece of film wide enough that you don't need to x-stroke, but use a slight x-motion, anyway. Hone with the heel leading, and vary the heel leading angle occasionally. Watch for the blade to undercut the water on the film. When you see that, it is nearly time to go up to the next grit. Pay attention to the draw... there will be a tiny suction between blade and film when a stage is complete or nearly so. It will sort of pull back against the stroke as if sticking to the film. This is very hard to detect on the 5u film but will be more obvious when you are on the 3u and very obvious on the 1u film. After the 3u you should get some indication from an HHT test. A good 3u edge will shave your face decently. It is, after all, roughly equivelant to an 8k Norton stone. If your 3u edge isn't equal to a good 8k edge, there is no point whatsoever in progressing to the 1u film. Keep working at it until it is ready for the 1u. In fact, if the 5u edge is not equal to a 4k Norton edge, i.e. if it doesn't shave arm hair quite easily and smoothly and at least make a nice violin ping and drag on a hair, then there is no need to go on to the 3u film. In other words, if you progress too soon, without having the previous stage do its job completely, you are engaged in a monumental waste of time and effort, apart from the remote possibility of a learning experience.

1u film over damp paper should give you at least a very solid HHT3 and frankly I would be disappointed with less than a borderline HHT4, depending of course on the hair sample and other factors. Do remember that the HHT is very subjective. It is the shave that counts, but early on, you should get a pretty good idea of what HHT level you yourself get versus a particular shaving edge quality. A good 1u edge is definitely the equal of what most professional honers will give you from their rocks.

Don't give up! You are closer than you think to getting there.
 
C

Chico

Ok, thank you Slash for taking the time and patience for your answer. Shall I start over with both razors, the Puma as from 15 micron and the Dovo as from 5 micron?
One more thing, I noticed that when I use the 1 micron, I feel like I am making strokes over a bumpy surface. With the other films it is smooth.
 
K

Kavik79

Tried honing my second razor with film last night. The first one I did worked out fine, honed up easily, but was a little harsh (using 12, 5, 3, 1)
So on this one I added 20 laps with paper under the 1um after doing all the rest......but I think I left too much water between the film and the paper. I had squeegeed it out, but then when I re-wet the surface of the film I think I also re-saturated the paper :001_unsur
On the first pass the film pushed up a lot in front of the blade (even without using much pressure, so it was like the film was just floating over the paper and not suctioned down to it). I then re-squeegeed it and it seemed good from there, I just worry that the one stroke may have dulled the edge.

Coming of the 1um without paper it was popping hairs like crazy and had very good HHT results, barely heard a sound with a hollow ground razor. After finishing with the paper under it it seemed to lose a little in the HHT department. I haven't had a real shave with it yet, but tested it on on cheek with just water on my face to make sure it was at least still cutting. Even without lather it felt smooth and didn't tug or anything, so I think I lucked out.

I guess the point of writing all this is to warn other people doing this for the first time to make sure after you have everything in place, pay special attention to not getting any more water on the paper. (I read afterwards that the paper should've been cut slightly smaller than the film, but I had cut mine slightly bigger, which I assume is what allowed this to happen)
 
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K

Kavik79

so.....yeah. Gonna have to touch that up again. It shaved nice and smooth wtg, but not sharp enough for a comfortable atg. Oh well, one more lesson learned :glare:
 
Slash McCoy

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Chico said:
Ok, thank you Slash for taking the time and patience for your answer. Shall I start over with both razors, the Puma as from 15 micron and the Dovo as from 5 micron?
One more thing, I noticed that when I use the 1 micron, I feel like I am making strokes over a bumpy surface. With the other films it is smooth.
Click to expand...

Yes. But I see you already did that, with much better results.

The finer grit films give much harsher and more obvious feedback. Your surface probably IS bumpy. You may have debris under the film or on the film. A piece of lint or animal hair or a speck of dust so small that it is invisible to the naked eye will show up in the feel of the razor passing over the film. Take care to clean your plate and the back of your film thoroughly. I use a damp paper towel for this, though that isn't ideal since the paper towel can leave fibers behind. Some sort of anti-static cloth or wipe or lint-free rag might work better. If you feel a bump on the first lap, stop and clear whatever debris caused it. If it is an irregularity in the surface of your plate, you need a different one that is nice and flat.

If you are careful you can use the spine of the razor as your squeegee. Pass it over the film spine-leading, as if stropping, but don't let the edge quite touch the film, and use pressure on the spine. That is how I clear excess water from under my film.

As paper absorbs water, it expands and it can buckle up under the film. I dampen mine with a damp paper towel. It gives a much more even and consistent wetting than just spraying the paper with water. I let it sit loosely on the plate for a minute before spreading it. Then I wet the film before applying the film to the paper, and then squeegee with the razor spine, first lightly from the center outward, then more heavily. Yes, it is certainly best to cut the paper slightly smaller than the film. Not only does this regulate the amount of honing water that the paper will absorb, but it also prevents bits of soggy paper from rolling around on top of your film.

As long as your pressure is very light, and it SHOULD be extremely light, especially when finishing, one bad lap won't totally spoil the bevel. I always figure an extra 50 laps for one bad lap like you experienced, and I usually get my desired feedback in the end with no problem. If it feels sharp on the film, it is sharp. Just give it another 20 laps after full feedback and you are good to go.

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it now. From here on out it is simply a matter of refinement in your technique and developing little tricks to tweak the results. There are dozens of factors that you can adjust, such as environmental variables, (honing in a house with a cat in it will cause frustration and grief due to cat dander and ultra-fine hairs floating around everywhere, as one common example) plate surface quality, general cleanliness procedures, and so forth. As long as your constant goal is an ongoing improvement in edge quality and you really think about all the possible factors at work, your edges will keep getting better.
 
K

Kavik79

Just wanted to say that I finally got around to re-doing that one razor last night. I went through the whole progression again just to be safe, since it doesn't take long at all with the films.

Made sure to keep everything super clean, cut the paper smaller than the film and squeezed more water out of the paper this time. Also think I made some improvements in my technique to keep the finishing strokes as light as possible. Got one of the sharpest edges I've ever put on a blade, but at the same time super smooth. Definitely in my top 3 edges ever :thumbup:
 
C

Chico

Last weekend I made a mistake with my GD. First 3 micron, then 9 micron. Why? Because my supplier told me that it was really really really 1 micron instead of 9 micron. I realized that when shaving....terrible. Did only one stroke. Felt my cheek and was wondering why almost nothing was shaved.
So last weekend decided to go from 12 to 5 to 3 to really really 1 micron and then damped.
It took me in total about an hour. Was really feeling for that burr before going further. When I felt (in my opinion), the complete burr, I went working on the other side, matching the amount of strokes. Afterwards 60 laps alternating. It was shaving arm hair already. 5 micron, 60 laps. 3 micron, 60 laps. Did a HHT, popping. 1 micron 60 laps, then 30 laps with damped paper. This felt really smooth. Stropped for 60 laps on leather side. (Waiting on my new BD Latigo, as this one is getting severed nicked now). Tried the HHT test. Must be honest. Only at the end on the point not really there. Tried shaving. Went very well, even though it was not a top notch edge.

How many times can I use the films? Can I was some of the black residu off?
 
Slash McCoy

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Oh and you can usually get about a dozen uses out a piece of film. Yes it is actually a good idea to wash off your film especially the back.
 
Seraphim

Seraphim

Films will keep going MUCH longer than you would expect. They lose quickness, but they will continue cutting way past 10, 20, or more razors.
 
redbreast

redbreast

After 2 months of struggling with coticule and no success I pulled out the film again. Holy, that stuff is easy to use and gives a sweet edge. Almost regrets the 75$ spent on that small stone that only gives me headache.
 
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