Same old debate. 1911 in 9mm or 45

[Mhinagoya]

I have a few 1911 pistols. I shoot 45, 9mm, 10mm, 40 S&W, 22 TCM, 9X23, and 38 Super in them.
I'm not wedded to any particular cartridge, but if I had to choose only one, it would probably be a Super. Think 9mm on steroids.

Were I to buy a 1911 in 9mm today, I would order a Super barrel for it the same day. Single or double stack, I would run Super Comp brass and 124 grain hollow point bullets. With VV N 105, you can equal .357 ballistics and that's nothing to poke fun at.

Were I to buy a 1911 in 38 Super today, I would order a 9mm barrel for it the same day. Barrels, bushings, and recoil springs are way cheaper than complete pistols.

The 9 / Super setup just makes sense to me. I have also used Super magazines with 9mm and had no issues. The 9 is a lot of fun to shoot in a pistol the size of the 1911. Reminds me of a 22 rimfire. The Super can be a legitimate fighting weapon when loaded to its potential. No, you can't buy commercial ammunition at that level of performance, but it's easy to make. Accurate #7 will come close to VV N105 and it's both cheaper and far easier to find.

I have three "switch barrel" pistols and two of the three almost always sport a Super barrel and recoil spring setup.

I have enough ammunition and components laying around that I have no reason to choose one cartridge over the other. That being said, the 10mm's recoil is such that I am persuaded to choose one of the others first. The 10 is an amazing cartridge and my gun may very well be the most accurate centerfire pistol I own. It is also the most abusive to shoot. With a 40 barrel in it, it is difficult to distinguish between it and a 45.

When I carry, it's a 45. When I head for the range, you would be hard pressed to guess what is in the bag, as I shoot whatever suits my fancy on any given day. I like the 45 (and to be honest, the 40 S&W) for defense, as those big, fat bullets inspire confidence in me. I do not know if one is superior to the other or if all are equal. I do know the value of having confidence in your carry piece.

I have bought what I wanted and am both pleased and content with what I have. Not a bad spot to be in.

Bill.

 

[jar_]

I handled the Springfield SA-35 not too long back and I also found the safety switch to be quite loose and mushy without that very positive click and clicking sound like one gets from a 1911. It was kinda unnerving?

I would like to have two single action 1911’s in my firearms stable one day. I would love to have a full sized quality hi power clone. The MAC channel on YouTube says Girsans hi power clone looks clean, but he said the trigger was horrible. I heard Tisas has one but haven’t seen it yet.

I also want a smaller type compact or micro 1911 for carry, but I’m not sure about micro 1911’s with really small safety levers and no grip safeties. I really like Springfield’s EMP Ronin 3” officers type model. While very small and compact, it still has a full sized thumb safety and it’s not ambidextrous which I also like and it still has a grip safety on its backstrap.

View attachment 1682860

Since Tisas is OEM for SA's P-35 slides we may not get to see their P-35 over here.


I had quite a few P-35 and clones over the years but I'm down to just one and it's the ugliest of the bunch but also the most accurate and best shooting of them all. I had ones from FN, FM, FEG and the ugly duckling.

The Arcus was made in Bulgaria.

 

[OkieStubble]

Based on looks alone I really like the Staccato/Bul Armory style compact/subcompact 2011’s

Staccato is the definition of the phrase, “ you get what you pay for.”

 

[OkieStubble]

I have a few 1911 pistols. I shoot 45, 9mm, 10mm, 40 S&W, 22 TCM, 9X23, and 38 Super in them.
I'm not wedded to any particular cartridge, but if I had to choose only one, it would probably be a Super. Think 9mm on steroids.

Were I to buy a 1911 in 9mm today, I would order a Super barrel for it the same day. Single or double stack, I would run Super Comp brass and 124 grain hollow point bullets. With VV N 105, you can equal .357 ballistics and that's nothing to poke fun at.

Were I to buy a 1911 in 38 Super today, I would order a 9mm barrel for it the same day. Barrels, bushings, and recoil springs are way cheaper than complete pistols.

The 9 / Super setup just makes sense to me. I have also used Super magazines with 9mm and had no issues. The 9 is a lot of fun to shoot in a pistol the size of the 1911. Reminds me of a 22 rimfire. The Super can be a legitimate fighting weapon when loaded to its potential. No, you can't buy commercial ammunition at that level of performance, but it's easy to make. Accurate #7 will come close to VV N105 and it's both cheaper and far easier to find.

I have three "switch barrel" pistols and two of the three almost always sport a Super barrel and recoil spring setup.

I have enough ammunition and components laying around that I have no reason to choose one cartridge over the other. That being said, the 10mm's recoil is such that I am persuaded to choose one of the others first. The 10 is an amazing cartridge and my gun may very well be the most accurate centerfire pistol I own. It is also the most abusive to shoot. With a 40 barrel in it, it is difficult to distinguish between it and a 45.

When I carry, it's a 45. When I head for the range, you would be hard pressed to guess what is in the bag, as I shoot whatever suits my fancy on any given day. I like the 45 (and to be honest, the 40 S&W) for defense, as those big, fat bullets inspire confidence in me. I do not know if one is superior to the other or if all are equal. I do know the value of having confidence in your carry piece.

I have bought what I wanted and am both pleased and content with what I have. Not a bad spot to be in.

Bill.

This always wonderful post of yours, makes me curious if there are any 1911’s chambered in .357 Sig?

 

[BSawhill]

@OkieStubble, ask and ye shall receive.

1911 in 357 SIG For Sale - Omaha Outdoors

Omaha Outdoors has an incredible 357 1911 pistol selection available in multiple configurations, colors, and sizes to best suit your shooting preferences.

www.omahaoutdoors.com

 

[OkieStubble]

Oooohhh Snap!

 

[Mhinagoya]

This always wonderful post of yours, makes me curious if there are any 1911’s chambered in .357 Sig?

On several occasions, I have come one button click from ordering a 357 Sig barrel to fit it to my 10/40. I stopped because I can equal or beat its ballistics with a Super and I have two of those.
Believe me; If I could gen up a believable lie to tell myself why I needed to do that, It would already have happened.

I'm like a little kid. Eat candy till I throw up, and go back for seconds. It genuinely taxes my self control not to order a 357 Sig barrel.

Did I mention that I already own a 357 Sig polymer pistol? I don't remember what BS story I told myself to allow me to order it, but I have one, and half an ammo can of loaded ammo.

It's a pain to reload.

Bill.

 

[OkieStubble]

On several occasions, I have come one button click from ordering a 357 Sig barrel to fit it to my 10/40. I stopped because I can equal or beat its ballistics with a Super and I have two of those.
Believe me; If I could gen up a believable lie to tell myself why I needed to do that, It would already have happened.

I'm like a little kid. Eat candy till I throw up, and go back for seconds. It genuinely taxes my self control not to order a 357 Sig barrel.

Did I mention that I already own a 357 Sig polymer pistol? I don't remember what BS story I told myself to allow me to order it, but I have one, and half an ammo can of loaded ammo.

It's a pain to reload.

Bill.

I hear ya. I have a Lone Wolf barrel in .357 Sig to drop in my Glock 23 .40 S&W.

For us non re-loaders, a .357 Sig 1911 is very appealing.

 

[SlimChicken]

The plot thickens…I handled a CZ-P01 and dangit…I really liked it.

 

[Mhinagoya]

I hear ya. I have a Lone Wolf barrel in .357 Sig to drop in my Glock 23 .40 S&W.

For us non re-loaders, a .357 Sig 1911 is very appealing.

I've been reloading for the better part of 40 years and the 357 Sig is the biggest PITA I have run across.
I have found that the only practical way to resize the brass is to first anneal it (even that doesn't always keep it from splitting at the case mouth). I anneal every time.
Next, run them through a carbide 40 S&W resizing die.
Lastly, I run them through a Redding 357 Sig full length resizing die (to hit the shoulder and size the neck).
The rest is run of the mill, except for the need to use a Lee factory crimp die. There just isn't much neck there to hold the bullet, so I crimp them. The cartridge headspaces on the shoulder, so crimping isn't a problem.

I tried Imperial Sizing Wax, Hornady One Shot, and a couple other 'spray on' case lubes so I could do a single resizing pass with the Redding die. The force required to resize the cases then withdraw them from the die was excessive (Very excessive). In other words, nothing worked adequately well.

So, I started using the 40 carbide die first and it worked.

I have been told that Dillon dies address these problems, but they are expensive enough that I just won't take that leap.

I don't have headspace gauges and a chamber reamer for the 357 Sig, but I have everything else to fit a barrel. It's not a huge job, but with a 1911, it probably isn't a drop-in, either.

Bill

 

[Climb14er]

Thirteen years ago I wanted to buy my final 1911 and it was a no brainer for me, a Dan Wesson CCO 7+1 .45ACP the caliber just like all the others. Why the .45ACP? In a 1911? Aside from the pistol being designed around the .45ACP… I got to thinking:

If the political powers somehow decide on a legal mag capacity below ten rounds, which has been discussed for many years, I want the rounds to be .45ACP… period! YMMV. Carry what you enjoy.

 

[OkieStubble]

I've been reloading for the better part of 40 years and the 357 Sig is the biggest PITA I have run across.
I have found that the only practical way to resize the brass is to first anneal it (even that doesn't always keep it from splitting at the case mouth). I anneal every time.
Next, run them through a carbide 40 S&W resizing die.
Lastly, I run them through a Redding 357 Sig full length resizing die (to hit the shoulder and size the neck).
The rest is run of the mill, except for the need to use a Lee factory crimp die. There just isn't much neck there to hold the bullet, so I crimp them. The cartridge headspaces on the shoulder, so crimping isn't a problem.

I tried Imperial Sizing Wax, Hornady One Shot, and a couple other 'spray on' case lubes so I could do a single resizing pass with the Redding die. The force required to resize the cases then withdraw them from the die was excessive (Very excessive). In other words, nothing worked adequately well.

So, I started using the 40 carbide die first and it worked.

I have been told that Dillon dies address these problems, but they are expensive enough that I just won't take that leap.

I don't have headspace gauges and a chamber reamer for the 357 Sig, but I have everything else to fit a barrel. It's not a huge job, but with a 1911, it probably isn't a drop-in, either.

Bill

.357 Sig sounds as difficult to load as it is to find on the shelf and then extremely expensive when you find it.

 

[Ad Astra]

FWIW, my SA-35 has a crisp "click" with it's safety function. Just checked.

Perhaps a factory grease has worn off or something.


AA

 

[OkieStubble]

FWIW, my SA-35 has a crisp "click" with it's safety function. Just checked.

Perhaps a factory grease has worn off or something.


AA

This is good to hear, cuz I want one with a crisp click.

This blingy, boo shi gold one has the name OkieStubble written all over it.

Girsan Gold MC P35 High Power™ - EAA Corp.

Girsan High Power™ MC P35 Gold Color Finish 9mm Semi Auto with G10 Grips, Engraved Pattern, Drift Adjustable Sights, Full Size, 15+1 Rounds Handgun

eaacorp.com

 

[Doc Dan]

The 9mm Parabellum usually has a lot better penetration than a .45ACP. I knew a Philippino man years ago who was involved in the fighting, there. He said he preferred the 9mm for that very reason, as they often had to shoot through something, like a wall, or vegetation, etc. in order to hit their targets.

 

[Mhinagoya]

.357 Sig sounds as difficult to load as it is to find on the shelf and then extremely expensive when you find it.

I have been told that if one sources a Dillon carbide resizing die ($125 for just the resizing die, currently on backorder), the job becomes easy. This information came from a man who had such a die.
That still doesn't address the neck splitting issue. I don't lose many, but having to anneal every time the brass is fired is a lot of aggravation. I do that with my varmint rifles, but no way do I fire as many rounds through one of those as I do a pistol.

Why do I anneal my varmint cartridges every time they are fired? To maintain a consistent bullet pull. Same reason I skim turn the case necks.

Once fired 357 Sig brass isn't difficult to find and it isn't all that expensive.

As you have noted, lots of hassle to reload and expensive if you don't.

I reload, so the Super is a no-brainer. Easy to reload and amazing performance. The down side is that factory ammo is loaded down to 9mm performance. To be brutally honest, it seems to me that 9mm+P would be an acceptable (possibly preferred) answer for someone who doesn't "roll their own". If I had to choose between the 40 S&W and the 357 Sig, the 40 would get the nod. The 357 shoots flatter, but that is just bragging rights as 25 yards or less will not be enough to see the difference. The 40 has significantly greater frontal area (about 21%) and this facilitates more effective energy transfer. If there is any difference in recoil, I haven't noticed it.

The math: Area of a .355 circle is .099" rounded to the third decimal. Area of a .400 circle is .126", rounded to the third decimal.

My 357 Sig is a 'range toy'. I bought one because I didn't own one.

I don't save a dime by reloading, but I shoot a LOT more. The Sig doesn't get much range time. Mostly friends wanting to shoot it because they have never shot one. Other than that, it sits in the safe.

At some point in the future, I may (if overcome with boredom) buy a 357 Sig barrel and fit it to my 10mm 1911. No good reason, other than "because I don't have a 1911 in 357 Sig". Maybe. If I do this, I'll let you gentlemen know.

Bill.

 

[Rob72]

This is good to hear, cuz I want one with a crisp click.

This blingy, boo shi gold one has the name OkieStubble written all over it.

Girsan Gold MC P35 High Power™ - EAA Corp.

Girsan High Power™ MC P35 Gold Color Finish 9mm Semi Auto with G10 Grips, Engraved Pattern, Drift Adjustable Sights, Full Size, 15+1 Rounds Handgun

eaacorp.com

Remember- you have to dress around the gun:

 

[Rob72]

Remember- you have to dress around the gun:
View attachment 1684047

Heaven help us, you get a matching case!

 

[Ad Astra]

This is good to hear, cuz I want one with a crisp click.

This blingy, boo shi gold one has the name OkieStubble written all over it.

Girsan Gold MC P35 High Power™ - EAA Corp.

Girsan High Power™ MC P35 Gold Color Finish 9mm Semi Auto with G10 Grips, Engraved Pattern, Drift Adjustable Sights, Full Size, 15+1 Rounds Handgun

eaacorp.com

Gold. Engraved. And with a legal warning stamped on the side...

AA

 

[Shoegazer]

I think I'm going to save up my pennies and get a 1911. Of current production guns I like the CZ-75s and 1911s lots. I like the classic types more than the Glock types. The 1911 just feels natural to me. I'm very keen on the Springfield Garrison. That hot salt blueing...drool. With that being said, I have a hard time answering the 9 vs 45 question. On one hand the gun was designed around the 45 ACP, on the other hand...9 will probably be lower muzzle flip, plus cheaper ammo in the caliber it seems every ammo company will focus on during ammo crunches because of DOD-NATO etc..

Y'all seem like a 1911 crowd. What say you?

I have a CZ 75 and a1927 Sistema Colt (Argentine licensed 1911A1 copy: mine was made in 1954). The 1911 seems to me much more of an "event" possession: you shoot it on special occasions, as a sort of demonstration of a connection with the past. I've had jams with the gun also--rarely, but truthfully it has happened.

I've never had a failure of any kind with the CZ 75.

Not to mention that I'm not sure I've ever seen a 1911 in 9mm. The new 1911-like guns (Kimber and the like) might make them.

The most unique thing about the 1911 is the trigger mechanism. How can I describe it: it's more like the release on a box trap to catch small game. The mechanism is about as direct as you can get.