Lapping film, try it.

[The Mick]

I bought a Chosera for setting bevels a few weeks back. Best purchase I've ever made. Think I paid $74 shipped so it's certainly not the cheapest bevel setter but not too much more than a DMT 1200 and it will last a lifetime unlike the DMT. Almost as fast as the DMT but it leaves a much smoother bevel. I've never had any luck setting a bevel with film. It's just really not film was meant to do IMO. Film really shines at the polishing stages (3um,1um). 1k stones (Norton, Naniwa, King, Chosera etc) are fairly inexpensive and a good thing to spend money on IMO. Most people spend the bulk of their honing budget on some ridiculously expensive finisher but the enlightened ones participating in this thread know better than to do that .

I've Got the Norton 220/1K - 4K/8K set already I just wanted to give the 30 a try. I've set bevels with the 12um it just takes some time I would like to speed it up a bit. I feel more comfortable with my technique when using the films then the stones for some reason.

 

[The Mick]

These guys have it. http://www.fiberoptics4sale.com/c/3M-Lapping-Film-9x6-1-2-Inch-Sheet.html

I don't see 30u in aluminum oxide there but it looks like I don't have to buy 100pcs all at once. How does the Silicon Carbide compare?

 

[PapaFish]

Isn't 30 micron basically just ~500 grit w/d? 15 micron ~1,000 grit? 12 micron ~1,200 grit? If you could just use w/d sandpaper to do the heavy lifting, and you could get a pack locally for a few bucks, it seems like a better deal to me. After that, jump to the more consistent lapping films and work your way up.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Isn't 30 micron basically just ~500 grit w/d? 15 micron ~1,000 grit? 12 micron ~1,200 grit? If you could just use w/d sandpaper to do the heavy lifting, and you could get a pack locally for a few bucks, it seems like a better deal to me. After that, jump to the more consistent lapping films and work your way up.

More or less, yes that is correct. I often "pre-set-the-bevel" on 1k paper and then clean it up on 12u film. Seems to work okay. Like right now... I don't have my 1k rock with me that I usually use. When I am ready to hone the batch of GDs I am working on now, I will use 1k paper on marble tile, then go 12u, most likely. I have a couple pieces of 30u but I just don't want to use them all up on these razors. Sandpaper, being more readily available, is more expendable to me right now.

If you look at the prices for sandpaper, though, you will see that using 30u film and then going to the 12u might actually be cheaper. Typically a piece of sandpaper will set a bevel nicely on one rough razor, or renew a bevel that has badly rounded on 2 razors. YMMV.

A nice flat 1k stone works really well, though, for setting a bevel, especially if you clean it up on 12u film.

 

[The Mick]

A nice flat 1k stone works really well, though, for setting a bevel, especially if you clean it up on 12u film.

This is what I have been doing lately.

 

[The Mick]

So I've been getting really sharp edges but they have been a bit harsh to me so this last session with films I went straight from the 3um to 1um with 3 pcs of paper to leather and I got great results. Much smoother edge. Before I was going to 1um plain than 1um with 1 pcs of paper. I think skipping the plain 1um and adding 2 more pcs of paper really had a great effect.

 

[Seraphim]

Picopaper baby!

 

[The Mick]

Has anyone tried using paper through the whole process? And if so what were the results.

 

[Seraphim]

Works great.

I recommend using a progression of paper layers as you move to the finer grits.

Say 1 piece of paper for your 5um, 2 pieces for your 3um, 3 pieces for you 1um.


I don't usually do it that way, but I have certainly tried it and liked the results.

 

[The Mick]

I will give this a try next time. Thanks

 

[Gustav]

I noticed that some films have aluminum oxide: https://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/7/1343/1561.aspx and others have diamond: http://www.thorlabs.de/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=1350 Thorlabs sells either kind. The films I got from workshopheaven appears to be mostly the former: http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/3M_Imperial_Lapping_Film_PSA_Sample_Pack.html Perhaps this has already been covered but does it matter? Has anybody compared them?

On a side note, I would like to warn people using the PSA backed films that once dried after use I would recommend storing then under a heavy object. My backing film seems to have shrunk leading to buckling of the lapping film and it is a nightmare to get flat.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Plain back films are much to be preferred. AlOx are more cost effective than diamond, and also come in bigger sheets. Why limit yourself to a 6" hone when you can have one up to 13"?

If you are going to use PSA, I recommend a separate plate for each grit. Don't leave the backing paper on. Stick it with the film's adhesive, and leave it on that plate until it wears out. Clean up all residue with acetone and very clean cotton rags, going over it several times. Plates are cheap if you use Home Depot marble edge tiles or scrap glass.

 

[Seraphim]

diamond films cut more aggressively, and last longer. But not enough to justify the extra expense. Stick with the Alox/SiOx

 

[Gustav]

Thanks for the answers! I actually bought the PSA lapping film by accident. I am in the process of getting the regular deal and a better plate to put them on than the very slightly textured tile I am using at the moment. Nonetheless I have managed to touch up a number of razors with this less than optimal setup.

I also bought a further no name solingen razor in a hardware store just across from work. I bought an identical one a few years ago and had it honed by a professional. I have treated the new one on a DMT 1200 to set the bevel and then done a 12 and 5 micron progression. I have not had time to do the 1 micron finishing yet but I hope to do it this evening. At the 5 micron level it is already popping hair quite nicely.

At first I tried using the burr method for the bevel setting and when I thought it was ready because I could shave arm hair, I went over to 12 micron lapping film. However, the sharpness did not improve so I went back to the DMT 1200 doing halfstrokes and then a further 30 laps. After that the 12 micron film really made a difference. It just goes to show yet again that if the bevel is not set correctly, no amount of laps on lapping film will sharpen your razor.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Thanks for the answers! I actually bought the PSA lapping film by accident. I am in the process of getting the regular deal and a better plate to put them on than the very slightly textured tile I am using at the moment. Nonetheless I have managed to touch up a number of razors with this less than optimal setup.

I also bought a further no name solingen razor in a hardware store just across from work. I bought an identical one a few years ago and had it honed by a professional. I have treated the new one on a DMT 1200 to set the bevel and then done a 12 and 5 micron progression. I have not had time to do the 1 micron finishing yet but I hope to do it this evening. At the 5 micron level it is already popping hair quite nicely.

At first I tried using the burr method for the bevel setting and when I thought it was ready because I could shave arm hair, I went over to 12 micron lapping film. However, the sharpness did not improve so I went back to the DMT 1200 doing halfstrokes and then a further 30 laps. After that the 12 micron film really made a difference. It just goes to show yet again that if the bevel is not set correctly, no amount of laps on lapping film will sharpen your razor.

Oh no! Absolutely never ever use any sort of tile that is not perfectly mirror flat and polished! You would seriously be far, far better off with rocks. Even a dished out or humpbacked rock is better than any sort of textured tile with film on it! If There is no polished tile in Germany, get some very thick glass such as is used for glass tabletops. Windowpane glass is often used but may be too flexible for absolute best results.

Sometimes the burr method is difficult to implement on a DMT because the diamond has a slight tendency to grab and cut the steel rather than displace it. I have done it but I have noticed difficulty with some few blades. Just be aware that this can sometimes happen. If you suspect this, then do your circles or half laps or whatever on the DMT until you believe a burr SHOULD have been raised full length, stop, and then do half laps on film or stone. If the bevel is there, the burr should appear almost immediately from half laps on the non-diamond media, and then you have your verification. If a hundred laps or so (YMMV!) go by on the film or stone and no burr, then maybe the bevel wasn't completely set on the DMT and you can either revisit the DMT or simply continue on film or stone until you got it. The DMT still did a lot of the heavy grunt work for you, and that is what it is best at.

I must admit to a little jealousy over you being able to simply go to a hardware store and buy a new Solingen made razor! That would definitely not be an everyday occurrence here in the U.S.!

Having to revisit your DMT with your razor probably indicates that the burr was not completely removed. If you felt a burr on both sides off the DMT then so far so good. I think perhaps it was a matter of not honing that burr completely away with alternating laps. The final 30 laps you used probably did the trick. Normally you could simply continue on the 12u film and you WOULD have seen an improved edge, but I believe your textured tile is holding you back.

 

[blackhhawk]

Just ordered a 25 pack of 3 and 1 micron from specialized. Someone had sent me some film and I used the sheets but went back and redid the edge on my coti so I never got a chance to shave with it.

 

[Seraphim]

Just ordered a 25 pack of 3 and 1 micron from specialized. Someone had sent me some film and I used the sheets but went back and redid the edge on my coti so I never got a chance to shave with it.

You can re-use films many, many times.

 

[blackhhawk]

I scraped one of my two 1 micron sheets and the abrasive came off right in the middle. I think I may have ruined my last one with too much pressure. I'm getting these black dots on the sheet that seem to be raised a little, I don't know what it is. I figured I will give it another shot and order more, it's cheap enough. I'm sure others might want some too so I can send some out to folks.

I did just get someone's vintage coti combo stone to try out too... I think I like honing more than shaving.

 

[Slash McCoy]

the raised dots are from debris either on or more likely under the film. It is toast. Gotta keep everything very very clean.

 

[blackhhawk]

Yeah thats why I trashed the 2 sheets I had... I don't know how it happened but it was probably something on my plate. I was honing while swmbo was asleep with a headlamp in the dark so its quite possible i didn't see stuff on my plate, or missed it while wiping it down. Tried using a microfiber cloth to make sure there was nothing left on there but I guess I didn't do a good enough job! Oh well, now I have loads of sheets to mess with. Should be here tomorrow.