Nah. When I first started using a brush I tried a few. No added benefit for me. The only time I'll bother anymore is if I'm going to be a few minutes before lathering up. YMMV
Pre-Shave Oil?
- Thread starter Greg788
- Start date
I have been using it since I started 50 years ago, before it was an pre shave marketed option. Taught for my dad (95), his dad was a soap marker in Itay. My dad used a combo of Grapeseed and Olive oil). My ingredients have changed over the years. But works for me. It is personal choice, all skins, oils, use, and more varies for all. Just like the soap I use and razor I use may never be what you will use.
So if interested, try it, but again think skin and shave, so what you use and how you use matters. I may take some work and time. Everyone looking for a silver bullet...nope...
My blend works for me, find what works best for you..with or without a pre shave process..remember also , you age of your skin also changes..
You only get one face...
Everyone sees it..
Take care of it...
Cheers BFX
So if interested, try it, but again think skin and shave, so what you use and how you use matters. I may take some work and time. Everyone looking for a silver bullet...nope...
My blend works for me, find what works best for you..with or without a pre shave process..remember also , you age of your skin also changes..
You only get one face...
Everyone sees it..
Take care of it...
Cheers BFX
That pretty much sums it up.
A pre-shave oil may reduce the friction of the razor gliding over the skin, but so does a good lather from a quality shaving soap or cream. I’d be hard pressed to name any benefit that these oils might have on the stubble, while the standard 3 minute pre-shave routine with water and maybe some soap will certainly soften them.
To improve a pre-shave, I get more benefit from a hot, moist towel than from pre-shave oils.
I have experimented with shave oils as pre-shave and instead of lather many years ago, but for the former it did not give me any noticeable advantage and for the latter it did not hold a candle to a soap-based lather. With some oils there is also the risk of the oil clogging a safety razor or making a straight razor more slippery than it needs to be - not something I particularly care for.
Some people do swear by pre-shave oils and that is fine, but for me it is a fringe product and possibly a training aid for newcomers to wet shaving who are still working on their light touch shave.
B.
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Hey that is why we are here. We all have some great experience 'from our perspective'. I do not speculate.
All I suggest is be open, enjoy, & share. I do think the using the "for me" is so very important in the share...
BFX
All I suggest is be open, enjoy, & share. I do think the using the "for me" is so very important in the share...
BFX
The only pre-shave that has a lifetime spot in my den is the legendary Proraso Green (only used in combo with its matching shaving cream or soap).
Nah. Not needed for me. My pre shave is warm water. Done.
I’ve wondered the same thing. I dont use pre oil a lot, but when I have, it seemed my lather wasnt all it should be. Then again, I can’t stick to one soap for long, so my experiment is flawed
It depends on the oil. Some enhance lathering capabilities (like coconut and castor), whereas others can inhibit it (like olive). Others assist with water retention too, so should assist with maintaining hydration.
Where I've had issues with lathering, it's been more about the water quality (I'm in a very hard water area) than the pre-shave. When I use a pre-shave oil, I find that residual slickness between passes is maintained, which isn't always the case if I use no pre-shave.
I also use low-lathering, craft-fair 'shaving' soaps as pre-shave bars too, a bit like the Cube. These tend to be lousy for producing a shaving lather, but excellent for softening and condition before the real stuff goes on.
Did some more research and conclude that soap lathers best when the water/skin surface is as pure and clean as possible. Some evidence:I’ve wondered the same thing. I dont use pre oil a lot, but when I have, it seemed my lather wasnt all it should be. Then again, I can’t stick to one soap for long, so my experiment is flawed
- Lather is produced when soap combines with water to form micelles that collect around tiny air bubbles.
- Many here have posted that hard water makes lathering a challenge. Hard water includes lots of calcium and magnesium ions that bind with the soap to create soap scum (USGS Gov faq link below). Per another site the soap forms micelles around these ions as it does around dirt and bacteria when washing that are then easily rinsed away.
- Soap also forms reverse micelles around oil. Great for washing as this allows the oil to easily rinse off. Can't find anything that shows that oil micelles can also form part of the lather. Suspect that soap molecules consumed by oil micelles are in effect taken off the playing field.
- Qualitatively we've all likely noticed that when our faces are extra dirty or oily it takes more soap to thoroughly clean up.
- Conclusion is that it's likely that the presence of anything on our face other than pure water will consume a portion of our shaving soap making less available for lather. With too much oil one may get the "slimy" lather reported by some that may be the result of soap scum (soap and oil micelles) mixing into the lather.
- All the recommendations for use of pre-shaving oil appear to be from manufacturers, retailers or those supported by the same. They talk about the oil softening hairs and lubricating skin. While this may be true the problem is that based on the chemistry it looks like our shaving soap lather will react with any oil on our skin and hair and form it into soap scum micelles that likely mitigates these benefits prior to the actual shave. Interesting that most of the recommendations emphasize only using a few drops of pre-shaving oil.
Again any chemists please comment. One possibility would be if the oil molecules somehow bond with our hair or skin to enhance the shaving process without interfering with our lather quality (chemical bonds to hair and skin that are strong enough not to be broken by the soap molecules). Couldn't find any research supporting this hypothesis.
Also looked at some MD sites that spoke about an oil cleaning method to help better remove make-up etc. from skin. A key message on this use was to ensure that the oil was thoroughly removed via subsequent washing to avoid issues like clogged pores. Emphasis on cleaning ones face down to a "clean pallet" for application of foundations and make up for those that use those products.
Why does it take so long to rinse the soap off my hands? What are hard water and soft water? | U.S. Geological Survey
Water is said to be soft if it has a low concentration of calcium and magnesium ions in it, while hard water has a high concentration of calcium and magnesium. The minerals in hard water often react with most soaps to create a "soap scum," which is an insoluble substance that can temporarily...
- Thread starter
- #31
Possibly, but I suspect oil may be a better bet. Let me explain. Pre-shave oil, while theoretically prohibiting perfect lather:hair interface, would only have that detriment to the first pass. It's the first pass that likely causes most irritation. This is where the oil is beneficial as an added cushion. Oil's all gone by second pass, but much less facial hair means easier glide. Just a thought ...Did some more research and conclude that soap lathers best when the water/skin surface is as pure and clean as possible. Some evidence:
Bottom line is that it looks like any unsaponified oil and shaving soap do not mix to the shavers benefit with a good chance that shaving oil actually reduces the effectiveness of our shaving lather. No plans to experiment with pre-shave oil until I see some unbiased evidence to the contrary. Will stick to my basic pre-shave face wash.
- Lather is produced when soap combines with water to form micelles that collect around tiny air bubbles.
- Many here have posted that hard water makes lathering a challenge. Hard water includes lots of calcium and magnesium ions that bind with the soap to create soap scum (USGS Gov faq link below). Per another site the soap forms micelles around these ions as it does around dirt and bacteria when washing that are then easily rinsed away.
- Soap also forms reverse micelles around oil. Great for washing as this allows the oil to easily rinse off. Can't find anything that shows that oil micelles can also form part of the lather. Suspect that soap molecules consumed by oil micelles are in effect taken off the playing field.
- Qualitatively we've all likely noticed that when our faces are extra dirty or oily it takes more soap to thoroughly clean up.
- Conclusion is that it's likely that the presence of anything on our face other than pure water will consume a portion of our shaving soap making less available for lather. With too much oil one may get the "slimy" lather reported by some that may be the result of soap scum (soap and oil micelles) mixing into the lather.
- All the recommendations for use of pre-shaving oil appear to be from manufacturers, retailers or those supported by the same. They talk about the oil softening hairs and lubricating skin. While this may be true the problem is that based on the chemistry it looks like our shaving soap lather will react with any oil on our skin and hair and form it into soap scum micelles that likely mitigates these benefits prior to the actual shave. Interesting that most of the recommendations emphasize only using a few drops of pre-shaving oil.
Again any chemists please comment. One possibility would be if the oil molecules somehow bond with our hair or skin to enhance the shaving process without interfering with our lather quality (chemical bonds to hair and skin that are strong enough not to be broken by the soap molecules). Couldn't find any research supporting this hypothesis.
Also looked at some MD sites that spoke about an oil cleaning method to help better remove make-up etc. from skin. A key message on this use was to ensure that the oil was thoroughly removed via subsequent washing to avoid issues like clogged pores. Emphasis on cleaning ones face down to a "clean pallet" for application of foundations and make up for those that use those products.
Why does it take so long to rinse the soap off my hands? What are hard water and soft water? | U.S. Geological Survey
Water is said to be soft if it has a low concentration of calcium and magnesium ions in it, while hard water has a high concentration of calcium and magnesium. The minerals in hard water often react with most soaps to create a "soap scum," which is an insoluble substance that can temporarily...www.usgs.gov
I'm tempted to revise my original posting having tried oil several more times. It does seem to work. Oddly, though, I swear one oil works much better than the other so maybe the ingredients vs. every individual face is also important -- a brand that works for me may not work for someone else.
Hi Greg, Possibly and only if the shaving soap of the first pass doesn't immediately react with and neutralize the oil. Unclear how fast the reaction is. In my case, since I aggressively face lather, I can't see any oil surviving by the time I start my first pass. It's possible some could survive is one bowl or mug lathers and then quickly applies the lather to ones face.
YMMV, glad that pre-shave oil helps the quality of your shaves. Do you face lather or build in your bowl or mug?
P.S. Looked into this topic some more and it's been hotly debated around here and elsewhere for years.
- Thread starter
- #33
I generally lather right from the puck, or bowl, never face ... here are two good reads on it, basically what started me down the path ...
9 Best Pre-Shave Oils for Sensitive Skin - Shaving Advisor
Best Pre-Shave Oils for Sensitive Skin - Roundup of the top pre shaving oils and an introduction to how this product functions and useful buyers information guide
shavingadvisor.com
The Best Pre-Shave Oil 2024 Comprehensive Guide - Sharpologist
What pre-shave oil is best for your unique shaving needs? Here is a detailed comparison of the leading pre-shave oils.
sharpologist.com
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I tried one that didn't impress me. Got this from my wife. Really love it. Very thick. Not a closer shave, just helps conition my sensitive and dry skin. Will
stick with this one, and get more.
stick with this one, and get more.
Finally found some actual scientific research that may be relevant to the efficacy of pre-shave oil. In this case an controlled test of hand washing efficacy posted by the the U.S. National Library of Medicine (link below). Part of this test included the cleaning of greasy hands that were greased with 0.5 ml of sunflower oil that was applied to one palm and then spread all over the test subjects hands that had been "dirtied" via a standardized procedure. Fairly similar procedure to how we would apply a few drops of pre-shave oil to our faces prior to a shave.
Test results (Table 2 in the study, DH2 (greasy hands) section) showed that in 20 seconds of hand washing with soap and hot water over 96% of the dirt and grease were removed. Just rinsing for 5 seconds without soap removed over 90% was removed.
Bottom line is that based on this there's a strong likelihood that very little if any pre-shave oil remains on our skin after even a first pass of lathering. This is especially likely the case for face lathering where one is in-effect scrubbing away on our skin with the brush during the lather building process. Note this just relates to skin, no results that may be applied to understanding the effect of pre-shave oil on our beard hair. If anyone can find any additional relevant research please post.
@Greg788 FYI in case you are curious about the article.
Have seen the earlier debates on this. As always YMMV and personal preferences apply. If pre-shave oil works for you with your tools and technique by all means use it.
Link to U.S. Govt. Hand Washing Research:
Efficacy of Removing Bacteria and Organic Dirt from Hands—A Study Based on Bioluminescence Measurements for Evaluation of Hand Hygiene When Cooking - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8394668/
Earlier B&B Thread on the Topic - Hotly Debated
www.badgerandblade.com
Test results (Table 2 in the study, DH2 (greasy hands) section) showed that in 20 seconds of hand washing with soap and hot water over 96% of the dirt and grease were removed. Just rinsing for 5 seconds without soap removed over 90% was removed.
Bottom line is that based on this there's a strong likelihood that very little if any pre-shave oil remains on our skin after even a first pass of lathering. This is especially likely the case for face lathering where one is in-effect scrubbing away on our skin with the brush during the lather building process. Note this just relates to skin, no results that may be applied to understanding the effect of pre-shave oil on our beard hair. If anyone can find any additional relevant research please post.
@Greg788 FYI in case you are curious about the article.
Have seen the earlier debates on this. As always YMMV and personal preferences apply. If pre-shave oil works for you with your tools and technique by all means use it.
Link to U.S. Govt. Hand Washing Research:
Efficacy of Removing Bacteria and Organic Dirt from Hands—A Study Based on Bioluminescence Measurements for Evaluation of Hand Hygiene When Cooking - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8394668/
Earlier B&B Thread on the Topic - Hotly Debated
Why, in my opinon, pre-shave oil doesn't make any sense
In my experience, pre-shave oil is useless. I've tried it a couple times (art of shaving) and gotten no benefit. I started thinking about it, and it's been a while since I've taken a chemistry course, but here's what I concluded. Oils and fats can only be cleaned using some kind of detergent...
www.badgerandblade.com
I'm still learning and I'm using a simple pre shave oil that I found on line and can make at home. What I do is put it on just after washing my face and using a hot towel. Then, I wash and dry my hands to make sure they're not slippery, strop my straight razor, make my lather and lather my face. By that time, the oil's done everything it's going to and I'm ready to shave. Does it help? I'm not sure, but that's just part of my learning curve.
Well done. I’m sure it is a good thing for some blokes. YMMV. I hope it works well for you.
I've tried it, and like some others in this thread, found that it didn't really do anything for me. I was surprised to be honest.
Having said that, occasionally I've thought about revisiting it because in the depth of winter my skin can get dry and every little bit can help. But even then I think using a latherless cream might be better for me than a preshave? But then that's not the same either.
I've also wondered if a preshave with a thinner soap might be a good combination. That is consistent with what others have said about better soaps and so forth but I could see how you might dial in things a bit better with some combinations.
Finally found some actual scientific research that may be relevant to the efficacy of pre-shave oil. In this case an controlled test of hand washing efficacy posted by the the U.S. National Library of Medicine (link below). Part of this test included the cleaning of greasy hands that were greased with 0.5 ml of sunflower oil that was applied to one palm and then spread all over the test subjects hands that had been "dirtied" via a standardized procedure. Fairly similar procedure to how we would apply a few drops of pre-shave oil to our faces prior to a shave.
Test results (Table 2 in the study, DH2 (greasy hands) section) showed that in 20 seconds of hand washing with soap and hot water over 96% of the dirt and grease were removed. Just rinsing for 5 seconds without soap removed over 90% was removed.
Bottom line is that based on this there's a strong likelihood that very little if any pre-shave oil remains on our skin after even a first pass of lathering. This is especially likely the case for face lathering where one is in-effect scrubbing away on our skin with the brush during the lather building process. Note this just relates to skin, no results that may be applied to understanding the effect of pre-shave oil on our beard hair. If anyone can find any additional relevant research please post.
@Greg788 FYI in case you are curious about the article.
Have seen the earlier debates on this. As always YMMV and personal preferences apply. If pre-shave oil works for you with your tools and technique by all means use it.
Link to U.S. Govt. Hand Washing Research:
Efficacy of Removing Bacteria and Organic Dirt from Hands—A Study Based on Bioluminescence Measurements for Evaluation of Hand Hygiene When Cooking - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8394668/
Earlier B&B Thread on the Topic - Hotly Debated
Why, in my opinon, pre-shave oil doesn't make any sense
In my experience, pre-shave oil is useless. I've tried it a couple times (art of shaving) and gotten no benefit. I started thinking about it, and it's been a while since I've taken a chemistry course, but here's what I concluded. Oils and fats can only be cleaned using some kind of detergent...
I think the question I'd want to know is the condition of the skin after a shave using preshave versus no preshave. It would probably depend a lot on the person, soap, and preshave.
I was wondering the same thing about the need for it. Mostly to decide if I should buy another tub when I run out. (Side note: I do think the PAA Cube looks cool and want to try it.)
I can't tell if it really helps. I have been shaving with a safety razor since 2011 and never used any pre-shave cream. My pre-shave was only a hot shower in which I would shave immediately after. I never had any problems shaving.
It was until recently, when I decided to upgrade my razor did I learn about the whole wet shaving routine. I dived head first and got all the tools.
Now that I have figured out my R41, I am wondering if the pre-shave is just a novelty. Plus, I feel like I need to use two almond sizes just to cover my shave area for any slickness. I am going through Proraso White tub quickly.
I am going to do a couple runs without it for an experiment.
I can't tell if it really helps. I have been shaving with a safety razor since 2011 and never used any pre-shave cream. My pre-shave was only a hot shower in which I would shave immediately after. I never had any problems shaving.
It was until recently, when I decided to upgrade my razor did I learn about the whole wet shaving routine. I dived head first and got all the tools.
Now that I have figured out my R41, I am wondering if the pre-shave is just a novelty. Plus, I feel like I need to use two almond sizes just to cover my shave area for any slickness. I am going through Proraso White tub quickly.
I am going to do a couple runs without it for an experiment.
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