Pistol Options?

[Deacon Frank]

I'm in the process of buying a pistol. I live in NJ, so when I say "process" that's exactly what it is. In addition to the length of time it takes, we also have a number of restrictions, including magazine capacity (recently dropped to 10).

I'm not into tiny handguns. My hands are too big, and I have no need for concealed carry (and that's not a realistic aspiration in NJ either). This will be a bedside and range handgun, so size isn't a factor. I am torn between two ways: a 9mm with limited capacity mags, or 45ACP. I've handled all the handguns below, but I've only shot the CZ75. All feel great in the hand.

In 9mm, the options I'm considering are:

• Steyr S9-A1
• CZ 75 Compact (w/ 10rd mags)

In 45ACP, the options I'm considering are:

• S&W M&P 2.0 (full-size)
• CZ97

For me, the most important aspect is reliability. The CZs and M&P seem to be tops in this category since they're used by military and law enforcement.

Next is the trigger. It has to be a great trigger as-is -- smooth take-up and clean break -- without sending to a smith for work. The CZs are probably a notch below the Steyr and M&P on this one. The CZ triggers I've felt were somewhat gritty.

One final factor. My daughter (16) wants to learn how to use a handgun, so whatever I buy needs to be suitable for her to use at the range. This means the CZ97 is probably at the bottom of the list due to the long trigger reach -- fine for me, but probably not for her.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[noelekal]

The CZ 97 would be my pick over both the Smith & Wesson and the Steyr and I would expect it to have the superior trigger since it is a hammer-fired SA/DA design. I've never warmed up to striker-fired pistols and their DAO triggers to the point that I would select one for "serious social purposes." They're not as satisfying on the range either. Extra points for the heavier all-steel construction of the CZ. I don't care for plastic or light weight.

Only one opinion of an admitted geezer.

A CZ 75 has lived here for about three years now and it's a honey. One of few "new-crop" automatic pistols that has wormed its way into my affections as I'm more geared to the 1911 gun or the High-Power.

In single-action mode the trigger smoothed out to be quite decent after breaking in, a good trigger for range or field. The trigger in DA mode is "just what it is," suitable for emergency employment at close range, which is all I'd ask of it.

 

[jar_]

Remember that if she likes it, it will be hers! Budget accordingly.

 

[nortac]

Another vote for the CZ and in 9mm.

 

[ScottChapin]

Wow, for me it would be a 1911 Government, given magazine capacity restrictions. It just feels so well balanced and comfortable in my hands. It’s a natural shooter for me. Carry is a different issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Acmemfg]

I don’t know too much about Steyrs; the older CZs are iconic and I kind of wish I owned one for the cool factor.
But...having first hand experience with real workaday pistols to be used as you have described, I would humbly recommend:

1. Browning P35 Hi-Power. A classic which has (and will) withstand the test of time for many years. Mr. Browning’s masterpiece. Can be fitted with 10 round magazines. 9mm.
2. Sig Sauer P220R. Thought by many to be the best, most combat worthy pistol ever made (ducking flames from the 1911 crew). When fit with the factory Short Reset Trigger, it doesn’t get much better. 8 round magazines. .45 ACP
3. Glock 30S. The Ford F150 of modern day pistols. Durable, very easy to shoot, lights out accurate. 10 round magazines. .45 ACP
4. Sig Sauer P229R. Another tried and true combat worthy pistol. Again, when set up with the SRT package, it’s a honey. Can also use 10 round magazines. 9mm.
5. FN-FNS, FNP, FNX Series. FN arms are the most battle-proven firearms in tne world. They work and work very well. Available in 9mm, .45 ACP, and (pictured here) .40 S&W. 10 round magazines available.

Good luck.

 

[MilkCrate]

Remember that if she likes it, it will be hers! Budget accordingly.

You are so right, my wife claimed my CZ75B. Great gun and the gritty trigger works itself out with enough ammo. My wife put down some really tight groupings, so I didn’t argue. She does let me borrow it.

 

[Mick]

You are so right, my wife claimed my CZ75B. Great gun and the gritty trigger works itself out with enough ammo. My wife put down some really tight groupings, so I didn’t argue. She does let me borrow it.

SWMBO let's me borrow her guns.... sometimes... if I ask politely..... and promise to clean them after I'm done.

.

 

[jj_sharp]

For people not accustomed to recoil, I would say 9mm over the 45.
9mm autos do not kick much in a hefty gun, but it will chunk hot brass all over the place.

Consider watching the Louisiana Woman in the video link below, and pay attention to how the recoil affects her with the different calibers used. She is accustomed to recoil, but a newbie may not handle it well.

Also, note the incident at about 1:15 with the hot brass.
Note that she maintained control of the muzzle.

I think Revolvers are a better choice for many people.

Jody

 

[jar_]

Revolvers are simple, accurate, super reliable, in most cases the failure drill is just pull the trigger again. With modern moon clips or speedloaders a revolver is relatively easy to reload under stress.

My primary carry choice is a revolver with my bottom feeders a fifth or sixth choice. The last few days it has been a Colt Police Positive in 38S&W.

 

[Andy77]

I have a CZ75 PCR (compact) with 10 round mags (I’m in California) that fits my large hands quite nicely. It also punches above its weight. An aluminum framed, DA/SA 9mm that’s been battle tested and trusted by military orgs around the world could describe a CZ75 PCR, and also a Sig 226. Except the Sig costs twice as much.

 

[BigFoot]

The Sig P229 is a great shooter in .40 as well. The recoil is a lot lighter than .45.

 

[jj_sharp]

I advocate that people think it through (and not get an auto JUST BECAUSE everyone seems to get an auto).
Both platforms have advantages.

And you have to know yourself (how much energy are you going to devote to training and so forth).

Recommendation: Do not overestimate how much recoil you can handle.

Example: My wife ONLY wants automatics. She does not have the strength to rack the slide on her guns (arthritis). She usually shoots & carries a small/light 380 and a large/heavy 9mm. When her pistol malfunctions at the range, she sets it down and I have to clear it. What is her malfunction plan? Answer: Throw it down and draw another one (carry two). In my opinion she is a prime candidate for a revolver, but she does not go for revolvers.

J.

 

[jj_sharp]

>>One final factor. My daughter (16) wants to learn how to use a handgun

Be sure to bring her to the store and let her grip/handle the offerings.
Heavy guns sting less (if at all) when fired.
I believe you said it would not be CCW, so a heavy gun should not be a problem.

My wife's favorite is a large 9mm, all steel gun that holds MANY MANY rounds.
It is heavy and the recoil is EASILY managed.
I do not know how she can stand to carry the thing all the time because it is big and heavy.

I think I am talking too much.
DO let us know what you choose.
I am particularly interested in how your daughter likes shooting the selected pistol.
J.

 

[OkieStubble]

I'm in the process of buying a pistol. I live in NJ, so when I say "process" that's exactly what it is. In addition to the length of time it takes, we also have a number of restrictions, including magazine capacity (recently dropped to 10).

I'm not into tiny handguns. My hands are too big, and I have no need for concealed carry (and that's not a realistic aspiration in NJ either). This will be a bedside and range handgun, so size isn't a factor. I am torn between two ways: a 9mm with limited capacity mags, or 45ACP. I've handled all the handguns below, but I've only shot the CZ75. All feel great in the hand.

In 9mm, the options I'm considering are:

• Steyr S9-A1
• CZ 75 Compact (w/ 10rd mags)

In 45ACP, the options I'm considering are:

• S&W M&P 2.0 (full-size)
• CZ97

For me, the most important aspect is reliability. The CZs and M&P seem to be tops in this category since they're used by military and law enforcement.

Next is the trigger. It has to be a great trigger as-is -- smooth take-up and clean break -- without sending to a smith for work. The CZs are probably a notch below the Steyr and M&P on this one. The CZ triggers I've felt were somewhat gritty.

One final factor. My daughter (16) wants to learn how to use a handgun, so whatever I buy needs to be suitable for her to use at the range. This means the CZ97 is probably at the bottom of the list due to the long trigger reach -- fine for me, but probably not for her.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

From the ones you listed, I say go with the S&W M&P 2.0 in .45 ACP. Here is a list of my reasons why, from the bolded portions of your OP.

1. Of the 4 guns you listed, the S&W M&P is the best price.

2. You live in New Jersey. So a .45 caliber would suit your needs better, over 9mm in that political climate. The court system there, may even frown on hollow point designed ammunition if used in a self defense situation, even if it's legal. New Jersey could even change hollow points being legal, one never knows.

So if I could only have 10 rounds? And if I only had the option of defending myself or my loved ones, with a 115 gr. 9mm in FMJ or a 230 gr .45 in FMJ, which would I choose?

3. While I can tell by your post and your list, of 2 out of the 4 you chose are CZ's, that you really like the CZ, but If you are considering your daughter shooting it or using it also, I wouldn't consider the CZ unless she has larger hands and good hand strength. I have trained many the female officer of various strengths, size and stature.

Most, will not only have trouble with the trigger reach of a hammer fired CZ, but because of that reach, the heavy, double action first pull, of that CZ, which is a 15 pound trigger pull for you, will be a 30 pound trigger pull for them if they have small or weaker hands and fingers, because that very long reach just as you stated, only allows a female to get the very first portion of the pad of her finger on that heavy trigger.

Which actually makes the leverage point they need to actuate the trigger multiply the poundage of the actual triggers true weight for them. This makes them struggle with the strength it requires and gives them the perception of a 30 pound pull versus a man with large and more powerful hands.

4. The S&W 2.0 has even a nicer trigger pull then the original M&P. Consistent, light trigger pull from first shot to last. Those consistent trigger pulls will go along way in her learning accuracy skills over trying a heavy, hammer fired, double action first pull and then try to adjust from an incredibly heavy first shot (for her) to all of a sudden, a light single action shot in a frantic self defense scenario. I have seen many of the female officer miss with that heavy first pull, to then, emptying the gun too fast on the lighter second shots, because they still think they need all that power like the did on the first shot.

Getting them to switch mentally from first heavy to second light and thereafter, isn't as easy, in talking about doing it.

5. While the .45 is different in it's recoil, It's not harder for a female to control it versus a 9mm, it's just different. 9mm has much more muzzle rise then a .45 in the same sized pistol, where the .45 has much more rearward recoil then the 9mm. The .40 is worse then both the 9mm and .45, as it is much heavier then the 9mm and much more velocity then the .45. And I have taught many the female officer over the years, to shoot the .40 very consistently and accurately.

If the gun is going to be yours and you think you have the time to adequately train your daughter to use a heavy hammer fired trigger with a long reach and even heavier first pull, get the CZ because you really like the CZ. Everyone should have what they like.

But if you are taking in consideration that it's 1. New Jersey 2. Hollow Points may become unwelcome in NJ just as higher capacity magazines have. 3. Full Metal Jacket .45 is nothing to sneeze at. 4. You want an easy and consistent trigger to teach your daughter to use 5. Can only use 10 rounds. 6. And would like to get all that in a popular, extremely reliable and very affordable package?

The best candidate for the listed above, is the S&W M&P 2.0 in .45 ACP.

 

[Squidma]

I’m going to second the recommendations for a 1911 in .45 or the HiPower in 9mm...largely the same design and the best triggers out there...even before they see a smith’s bench. My commander length 1911 shoots softer all day long than my Glock 23, Walther P99, or Beretta 96.

 

[bberg100]

Of your choices the CZ75 is far and away my choice. Very shootable, heft makes it a pleasure for anyone to shoot, above average trigger and can easily be "fluffed and buffed" if you want a sweet one. 9mm ammo ranges from inexpensive range rounds to extremely capable defense loads, all at reasonable prices.

Develop good shooting skills, then maybe look at other options.

 

[Deacon Frank]

Thanks to all for your thoughtful responses and advice.

I love revolvers. However, I'm trying to capitalize on my daughter's interest, and she has no interest in revolvers. Since she prefers pistols, I want her to learn how to handle them now so she's ready to protect herself when she's out on her own. If that means catering to her tastes at this point, fine by me.

Some of you picked up on my preference for CZ, and that's true. I've wanted a CZ for a long time. I don't think I've ever handled a firearm that felt more natural in my hand. The trigger reach on the CZ97 is great for me, but may be too long for my daughter. I don't think the trigger reach on the CZ75 would be any problem for her. My primary concern here is the revolver-like trigger weight.

The recoil issue: 9mm is sharper than 45 in my experience. 45 may push more, but it's a more pleasant push than the 9mm. Neither round is difficult to manage in metal-framed pistols. The most unpleasant handgun I've shot was in 40 S&W, even in an alloy framed Sig it felt harsh. Not that it was unmanageable, but it was unnecessarily difficult to control. Not 44mag difficult (I owned a 629 at one point, to complement my Marlin lever gun) but I would rather have a 45 than a 40.

The caliber issue: some of you identified my concern about the laws in NJ given the current political climate. While hollow points are not illegal to own/use, they are de facto "frowned upon" for us lowly citizens. The law leaves a massive grey area that can be (and has been) interpreted to different extremes by police and the courts. The current municipality I live in tends to be on the more conservative side. Still, the idea of having a full-size pistol in a large caliber that doesn't "depend" on hollow points is a valid factor to consider.

The 1911 is a classic beauty, and certainly an option. I didn't mention budget, but for the money the CZ97 is a better value and holds two or three more rounds than a 1911. That's just my opinion, and I hope to own a 1911 someday, but I had previously ruled it out for this purchase.

We'll head to the gun store soon and handle a few of these options. First, we'll see what she thinks about the CZs. Then we'll compare to the M&P (none of our local stores carry Steyr). I'll let you know what we decide.

 

[OkieStubble]

Thanks to all for your thoughtful responses and advice.

I love revolvers. However, I'm trying to capitalize on my daughter's interest, and she has no interest in revolvers. Since she prefers pistols, I want her to learn how to handle them now so she's ready to protect herself when she's out on her own. If that means catering to her tastes at this point, fine by me.

Some of you picked up on my preference for CZ, and that's true. I've wanted a CZ for a long time. I don't think I've ever handled a firearm that felt more natural in my hand. The trigger reach on the CZ97 is great for me, but may be too long for my daughter. I don't think the trigger reach on the CZ75 would be any problem for her. My primary concern here is the revolver-like trigger weight.

The recoil issue: 9mm is sharper than 45 in my experience. 45 may push more, but it's a more pleasant push than the 9mm. Neither round is difficult to manage in metal-framed pistols. The most unpleasant handgun I've shot was in 40 S&W, even in an alloy framed Sig it felt harsh. Not that it was unmanageable, but it was unnecessarily difficult to control. Not 44mag difficult (I owned a 629 at one point, to complement my Marlin lever gun) but I would rather have a 45 than a 40.

The caliber issue: some of you identified my concern about the laws in NJ given the current political climate. While hollow points are not illegal to own/use, they are de facto "frowned upon" for us lowly citizens. The law leaves a massive grey area that can be (and has been) interpreted to different extremes by police and the courts. The current municipality I live in tends to be on the more conservative side. Still, the idea of having a full-size pistol in a large caliber that doesn't "depend" on hollow points is a valid factor to consider.

The 1911 is a classic beauty, and certainly an option. I didn't mention budget, but for the money the CZ97 is a better value and holds two or three more rounds than a 1911. That's just my opinion, and I hope to own a 1911 someday, but I had previously ruled it out for this purchase.

We'll head to the gun store soon and handle a few of these options. First, we'll see what she thinks about the CZs. Then we'll compare to the M&P (none of our local stores carry Steyr). I'll let you know what we decide.

I agree. And you're welcome.

 

[jj_sharp]

Has the selection been made? Inquiring minds want to know
J.