Don't worry! You are at the start of the rabbit hole where you think it is just a couple feet deep. Here's to enjoying naturals 
Have Shapton Pro 2k,5k,8k - What next?
- Thread starter catchacoolbreeze
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- #22
I will say its a bit intimidating given my memory of the past false start and bad shaves. Additionally, I've never been more happy with my DE setup that the comparison of the great shaves I'm getting there might be stark for a newbie in straights. That being said, I'm selling off most of my DE hoard, and that will fund this (that is how I'm justifying this-lol). It seems so cool to be able to hone and shave with a straight successfully. Cheers to naturals!Don't worry! You are at the start of the rabbit hole where you think it is just a couple feet deep. Here's to enjoying naturals
It is not against the law to use both a DE and a straight. Just take your time with the honing and enjoy it. The Dan's 6 x 2 x 1/2 translucent is an excellent stone.
I am in a similar situation. I have a Shapton 1.5, King 6K and Shapton 8K. I made the choice to live with the king 6K vs buying the Shapton 5K, the king does the job and I wanted some finishers. I have a small Jnat, A couple Coticules and a Dan’s 2x8 Black Ark. Of my finishers, the Coticules or by far the funnest, you can do so much with them. The shave off the Coticule is fantastic. Take that Coticule edge and put 8 to 10 passes on the Black Ark, that my friend will knock your socks off. To be fair to the Jnat, I have not put the time in.
I am sure there are just as fun, too many people can attest to that. I just took to the Coticule like a fish to water. If you’re looking go have a good time, that’s the direction I would head.
I am sure there are just as fun, too many people can attest to that. I just took to the Coticule like a fish to water. If you’re looking go have a good time, that’s the direction I would head.
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- #25
Got the stone in today and put a test razor on it just to see how it felt with some soap and water. I did not lap it yet. It's interesting. There are parts of the stone that feel "faster" than others. I am not sure if that is because of the finish from the factory or the make up of the stone. Looking forward to playing with it more!
Shapton 1.5k, a great stone and a really good decision to master bevel setting. It took me a long time to wrap my head around, "refining the bevel". I really had to learn to slow down during my progression and not think that the next stone will fix up what I missed off of the last.
Stunning Ark! Wish I wasn't so color blind. There is a bit of a learning curve and a bit of work getting it set up. Nothing too bad..just can be a hassle sometimes.
Stunning Ark! Wish I wasn't so color blind. There is a bit of a learning curve and a bit of work getting it set up. Nothing too bad..just can be a hassle sometimes.
I think you got lucky both in your coticules themselves, and in your having apparently come equipped with a perfect alignment to honing on coticules. I like coticules too, but it has been a far more complex road.
Starting from a place of having had lots of success with various JNats:
First I had a few coticules, but all the shaving edges I could make with them were too coarse (except the Les Lat, but that's cheating)
I embarked on a search for a really fine coticule, and finally found one (ok, more than one, and more than two...um, let's move on)
The edges were sort of keen, and very comfortable, but did not light my fire, so would only reach for a coticule edge occasionally.
Somehow, imperceptibly, my coticule honing got better. I cannot tell you what changed, but now I can get edges I'm happy with on most of my coticules.
The most recent step is that I got an unusual, rose-suffused, very hard coticule that I am experimenting with. There is every sign that it will produce wonderful edges, but I need to adjust my technique to suit its very different characteristics, to get the most out of it.
As you can imagine, all this has disinclined me to recommend coticules to people starting out.
@Herrenberg
I built hunting and skinning knives in my 20s and 30s, not new to putting an edge on from nothing. As I moved to straight razor honing? I had many bumps in the road. If you have the feel for sharping a skinning knife that you can shave with, it’s not hard to translate to a straight razor.
I agree, I got lucky with my Coticule, and I am glad I did. She is a little stone 4” x 1.8”, but coming from knife honing, I like the smaller stones and hand honing.
These are my two, I use the skinny one for slurry stone and sharpening my knives.
The fat one has some pretty reds and blues in it when wet.
I built hunting and skinning knives in my 20s and 30s, not new to putting an edge on from nothing. As I moved to straight razor honing? I had many bumps in the road. If you have the feel for sharping a skinning knife that you can shave with, it’s not hard to translate to a straight razor.
I agree, I got lucky with my Coticule, and I am glad I did. She is a little stone 4” x 1.8”, but coming from knife honing, I like the smaller stones and hand honing.
These are my two, I use the skinny one for slurry stone and sharpening my knives.
The fat one has some pretty reds and blues in it when wet.
Now the next stone would be your finisher… get the naniwa gouken 12k… you get consistently sharp and keen edges.
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- #30
Broke out the Shapton 1500 that I just got and lapped it with my Atoma 400. Took out a Henkel that is one of my test razors and tried my first bevel set. Unfortunately, it was not successful. Scratch pattern goes to edge on both sides but the razor passes none of the sharpness tests. I'm assuming bevels are not meeting at perfect apex. Done for tonight but will try to give it a go tomorrow.
That sounds about right. The first time I tried to set a bevel, I generated a giant cloud of black swarf - like an octopus discharging ink - but no sharpness.
I would recommend you put one layer of electrical tape (like 3M Scotch Super 88) over the spine until you gain proficiency.
Do not overthink this one. There is a learning curve to setting bevels that takes time and practice. You are just removing steel on both sides to form an apex. After about an hour, take a break.
When the edge is sharp, you will know and say "Holy crap that is sharp!"
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- #32
I tried again tonight for a little bit without tape - no luck. Added tape. Still no luck. Despite my reluctance to add tape, I can totally see where it will help not destroy the spine while I am learning. I have to say, it looks a lot easier to bevel set on youtube - LOL. I am not sure if its a technique or pressure thing as I was torqueing the blade to the edge and adjusting pressure. I will have to play with it some more. I did get it to "catch" on some arm hair and then when I continued with the bevel set, I either lost that or didn't gain anymore improvement.
I can totally see why setting the bevel is the most important aspect. If I couldn't get it set with the amount I was doing on the 1.5k. There is no way that I would have gotten it on a higher grit stone.
On another note - I also test a brand new Gillette Silver Blue DE blade on a cherry tomato. It did not pass either. I have no idea what that means but I thought it was interesting.
Did you try the old sharpie test? When I first started, it helped me out a lot. I also noticed how a lot of razors will not sit flat on the hone. So I found the sharpie test to be the simplest. If it goes out from toe to heel in 2-3 laps - then I am making good contact. But I was still using too much pressure or torque, so I wasn't getting a good apex. I also didnt distribute the pressure evenly across the blade, I would mostly concentrate it on the heel.
There is a lot of things left unspoken about in the youtube videos on how to set a bevel. I found Keith V. Johnson's videos to be the most in-depth. And I found I need an in-depth source, because whenever there is a possibility to screw something up, I will not miss it.
It took me a few hours on the stone to learn how to set a shaving worthy bevel on 1k. I used to get close on the 1k, but I was pressing too hard to get a nice edge. On the 5k I was then able to get a better edge because I got away with more pressure on that stone. But none of my edges are great shavers yet.
So as a newbie I would give you a tip to do the sharpie test and post the result. More capable people will point you in the right direction. You could be flexing the blade, honing on the stabilizer, not using a stroke that works for that razor. You can get the razor to shave quite well off the 1.5k shapton pro, as shown in one of Keith's videos. I am working towards that goal and I have been for hours and hours on the stone.
There is a lot of things left unspoken about in the youtube videos on how to set a bevel. I found Keith V. Johnson's videos to be the most in-depth. And I found I need an in-depth source, because whenever there is a possibility to screw something up, I will not miss it.
It took me a few hours on the stone to learn how to set a shaving worthy bevel on 1k. I used to get close on the 1k, but I was pressing too hard to get a nice edge. On the 5k I was then able to get a better edge because I got away with more pressure on that stone. But none of my edges are great shavers yet.
So as a newbie I would give you a tip to do the sharpie test and post the result. More capable people will point you in the right direction. You could be flexing the blade, honing on the stabilizer, not using a stroke that works for that razor. You can get the razor to shave quite well off the 1.5k shapton pro, as shown in one of Keith's videos. I am working towards that goal and I have been for hours and hours on the stone.
You need to generate some (black) swarf to set a bevel. If you put one layer of tape on the spine, do you see any swarf?
My initial problem was applying most of the pressure to the spine, not the edge. Using tape, helped me troubleshoot this problem - if you see swarf with tape, it's coming from the edge. The light bulb clicked when I watched this video by JeffT (whose Badger & Blade name I forget) talking about using torque to apply pressure to the edge:
Watch Alfredo (@Doc226) set the bevel in this video:
My initial problem was applying most of the pressure to the spine, not the edge. Using tape, helped me troubleshoot this problem - if you see swarf with tape, it's coming from the edge. The light bulb clicked when I watched this video by JeffT (whose Badger & Blade name I forget) talking about using torque to apply pressure to the edge:
Watch Alfredo (@Doc226) set the bevel in this video:
For better advice post some photos of the razor, as clear as possible, both sides and close up of the edge.
What sharpness tests are you referring to?
The bevel set is important. However, it is also important to not be stuck in bevel set limbo because you are told that you need a 1k shaving edge.
You baugt a series of stones for a good reason.
The goal is just to get two planes to meet. Even if you "kill" the edge afterwards on the side of your stone, your next stone, if the jump is not too big will reestablish the edge quite fast.
A 3 to 4k stone cuts really fast. Some would even consider them bevel setting stones.
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This isn't surprising. Highly refined edges don't cut tomatoes well.
After using a de blade a few times they will do much better on these types of 'tests'.
The main reason these blades work is because of the coating. As the coating wears off they start to look quite ugly.
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- #40
I tried a few. The razor did not cut a cherry tomato, it did not pass any HHT test from either root-in or tip-in, it did not get "grabby" on my thumb pad when I placed my thumb lightly on the edge and them moved it off the edge perpendicularly (i.e. to the right or left). It sometimes caught on very low tree topping on my arm hair but that was random and inconsistent. Those are the only tests I am aware of.
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