Damascus? Hopefully it’s from a reputable company.
I agree with David or a Naniwa 12K. No variation each and every time you use them.
I agree with David or a Naniwa 12K. No variation each and every time you use them.
What Honing Stone to get?
- Thread starter The Shave Doctor
- Start date
Yup, probably the easiest no brainer “finish” stone, (a stone you can shave off of) would be a Naniwia 12k. A small translucent is also a good choice, especially a vintage 6X2 stone.
There are other and “better” finish stones, but all come with a learning curve, and assuming your razor has been properly honed to shave ready.
But… more importantly post a photo of your razor to ensure that you have a razor that can be honed and not a Razor Shaped Object (RSO).
There are other and “better” finish stones, but all come with a learning curve, and assuming your razor has been properly honed to shave ready.
But… more importantly post a photo of your razor to ensure that you have a razor that can be honed and not a Razor Shaped Object (RSO).
Hopefully not a Pakimaskus
As it happens, I have a good picture of the blade already. I bought it through an on-line company, and can track down the brand if needed. I can already get a SAS out of it and the stubble, although visible is much shorter than it was even a week ago.
Sadly, that is an RSO...
Not a proper straight razor.
Unfortunately it is what I suspected.
If you really want to get in SR shaving then put this one aside and start over. Plenty of helpful people here that will guide you the right direction.
Well, if it actually shaves it's OK. Probably the easiest choice is a synthetic 12k stone from one of the major makers (NOT from a no-name source on Amazon). Next choice would be a Dan's 6x2 Black Arkansas. Lots of other options, but Japanese natural stones have a steep learning curve, coticules take quite a bit of time to learn, and good slates are either expensive (Thuri's) or hard to find (green Vermont slate or La Lune, Dragon's Tongue, Yellow Lake, etc) and variable so you may need to try several.
The problem with that razor is that the steel is not uniform (hence the patterning) and keeping both types honed to the same sharpness may be an issue. Up to you, worst case it will start giving you uncomfortable shaves and require a lot of work to keep it shaving sharp, best case it's actually a decent razor. Depends on the steel and heat treatment -- razors have to be RC62 and up or they won't hold a shaving edge. Sadly, the general consensus is that it won't perform well for long, and I'd add that you are going to need a full set of stones to maintain it, or learn to use a fairly expensive coticule.
You may want to look for a vintage razor on the auction site -- look for one at a reasonable price, no rust, no obvious heavy honing, and no cracks. Lots available for less than $20, and once you get one that isn't damaged, you can have someone hone it properly for you.
The problem with that razor is that the steel is not uniform (hence the patterning) and keeping both types honed to the same sharpness may be an issue. Up to you, worst case it will start giving you uncomfortable shaves and require a lot of work to keep it shaving sharp, best case it's actually a decent razor. Depends on the steel and heat treatment -- razors have to be RC62 and up or they won't hold a shaving edge. Sadly, the general consensus is that it won't perform well for long, and I'd add that you are going to need a full set of stones to maintain it, or learn to use a fairly expensive coticule.
You may want to look for a vintage razor on the auction site -- look for one at a reasonable price, no rust, no obvious heavy honing, and no cracks. Lots available for less than $20, and once you get one that isn't damaged, you can have someone hone it properly for you.
Q1- This is not our first rodeo, and we have seen those plenty of times in the past.
Q2- you first need to decide if you want a new razor, 2nd hand, or vintage. As long as the razor is a reasonable brand and in good shape, all three should be capable of giving you a good shave. PROVIDED it has been honed properly by someone who really knows what they are doing, and shaves with a straight themself. Even if a razor is brand new, an expensive blade, straight from the factory, that is no guarantee that it will shave well out of the box. It's all in the honing.
My advise, for what it is worth, get yourself an unfancy vintage razor that is not too expensive but in good condition. Send it to an expert to hone it for you. Buy a beginner strop and a finishing stone. Use those items until you are completely comfortable shaving with it and maintaining it, and only then start looking to buy more stuff.
OK, you know what to look for, but that doesn't answer my question. What is it that tells you that this isn't a good razor?
A strop I have. I'd like to get the right finishing stone and learn to use it. If this isn't a good razor, at least I won't have to worry about making mistakes honing it. As I already know how to sharpen knives, let me see what I can do with this one before getting a different one.
The shape of the blade, the geometry, balance, scales. While there are a few real pattern welded steel razors, they are rare and VERY expensive. The ones you see for sale on various websites are made in Pakistan, and sometimes India. The steel they use is recycled whatever, and the heat treat is suspect and sometimes non existent.
By all means, get your hones out and try to prove me wrong. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. But be aware, while there are some overlaps, honing a knife and a razor are different skills, and have different techniques. If you do decide to follow my advise and get a vintage razor pro honed I'd be interested to hear your opinion when you compare them side by side.
I think griffithshavinggoods.com is a good all in one shop to look at vintage or new. Will add in the razor you have probably won't work out and be more of a frustration then anything. Cheers
What sharpening stones do you have? It has been honed at least well enough to use, if not perfectly, so the lower grit ones aren't an issue here. 1k for bevel set, which you may already have for knives, then you need to polish the edge up to actual razor performance levels, so 3k, 5k or 6k, 8k, and then 10 or 12k or a natural of some sort of finish.
The two big issues with that particular razor are a poorly defined spine (which acts as a guide to hone the edge properly) and non-uniform steel. The "damascus" pattern is NOT Wootz steel, in which the pattern is a result of differential precipitation of chromium and iron carbides, but consists of two different types of steel forged together. Could just be an etching pattern, that would be OK.
Honing a razor is a little different that sharpening a knife -- the angle of he bevel is set by holding the spine on the stone along with the edge and using very light pressure. You do not want to form a burr. Alternate strokes on both sides with light pressure on FLAT stones until you get a clean apex. If yours is actually honed properly already, you only need to restore the very edge.
I'd slightly round the heel (scale end) of the blade as well as the toe, a sharp point there can dig in and slice you.
The two big issues with that particular razor are a poorly defined spine (which acts as a guide to hone the edge properly) and non-uniform steel. The "damascus" pattern is NOT Wootz steel, in which the pattern is a result of differential precipitation of chromium and iron carbides, but consists of two different types of steel forged together. Could just be an etching pattern, that would be OK.
Honing a razor is a little different that sharpening a knife -- the angle of he bevel is set by holding the spine on the stone along with the edge and using very light pressure. You do not want to form a burr. Alternate strokes on both sides with light pressure on FLAT stones until you get a clean apex. If yours is actually honed properly already, you only need to restore the very edge.
I'd slightly round the heel (scale end) of the blade as well as the toe, a sharp point there can dig in and slice you.
Wander over to The Superior Shave website. Jarrod knows how to put an edge on a razor and he has an inventory of razors that should fill any need you have. His $25 Gold Dollar (honed professionally and a value indeed) might be right up your alley. He has some nice Dovo and Thiers Issard razors for about $150 as well.
As far as sharpening, a Naniwa SS progression (1k, 5k, 8k, 12k) is both efficient and easy to use. Save the coticule and Arkansas stones for later..
As far as sharpening, a Naniwa SS progression (1k, 5k, 8k, 12k) is both efficient and easy to use. Save the coticule and Arkansas stones for later..
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I have. This is my grandfather’s Norton “pen knife” translucent ark. It measures 4”x7/8”. I will touch up pocket knives with it. I have taken a razor to it just to see. It is fiddly and a long process, but I have shaved off that edge. A full sized stone is much easier and quicker (relatively, as all arks have a reputation of being slow stones) and safer. But so long as the pen knife sized stone is the highest object in plane the razor encounters… it can be done. Should it? No, not really.
Matt at Griffith has a very nice looking vintage for $149 now on page 2. I consider Matt to have the best service all around so for a new guy into straights definitely the best option.
Stones are great. I love my stone finishes. I now have preferences as to which stone finisher I prefer with which type of steel in a razor. That was all driven by trial and error and experimentation. Every stone is individually different. Two honers can use the same razor and stones in sequence and achieve differing results based on their individual skillset.
My personal opinion is that lapping film and later pasted balsa strops are the cheapest, easily learnable and repeatable good edge producing systems available to a new honer with little to no experience honing anything, or without a stone progression in hand.
Slash McCoy has topics and granular instructions here how to do it all over this forum. “The Method” is a very long, very detailed thread of how he figured things out.
For a lapping film progression, my advice is up to but not past 1 micron for a learner. Any film, paste, spray smaller than that imparts a supremely keen, but harsh face feel for the first several shaves. CrOx is about .5 micron. FeOx is .2-3. They are the harshest feeling in my experience. CBN is smoother in the same sizes. Diamond paste more smooth. But anything below 1 micron that doesn’t progress to .1 micron Diamond paste on balsa is harsh to me.
Pasted hanging strops convex the edge to a degree and can feel smoother that a dead flat bevel generated on a lapped flat surface. Eventually that convexing eventually will need to go back on a flat honing surface to reset the edge is the commonly accepted lore.
And a pasted strop component (fabric and/or leather) should not be the last stropping surface a blade sees before your face. Pasted strop, clean the blade, clean fabric and/or clean leather strop then face should be the progression for the best edge you can put to your face
My personal opinion is that lapping film and later pasted balsa strops are the cheapest, easily learnable and repeatable good edge producing systems available to a new honer with little to no experience honing anything, or without a stone progression in hand.
Slash McCoy has topics and granular instructions here how to do it all over this forum. “The Method” is a very long, very detailed thread of how he figured things out.
For a lapping film progression, my advice is up to but not past 1 micron for a learner. Any film, paste, spray smaller than that imparts a supremely keen, but harsh face feel for the first several shaves. CrOx is about .5 micron. FeOx is .2-3. They are the harshest feeling in my experience. CBN is smoother in the same sizes. Diamond paste more smooth. But anything below 1 micron that doesn’t progress to .1 micron Diamond paste on balsa is harsh to me.
Pasted hanging strops convex the edge to a degree and can feel smoother that a dead flat bevel generated on a lapped flat surface. Eventually that convexing eventually will need to go back on a flat honing surface to reset the edge is the commonly accepted lore.
And a pasted strop component (fabric and/or leather) should not be the last stropping surface a blade sees before your face. Pasted strop, clean the blade, clean fabric and/or clean leather strop then face should be the progression for the best edge you can put to your face
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