Honing advise

Hi guys,

I have recently fallen down the rabbit hole of straight shaving, and I really like it. I have read a lot on this forum, so forgive me if this has ben asked multiple times.

If I would like to be able to keep my razor sharp and not have to send it out to people, what do I need? I have a strop, but what do I need in the way of hones?

I am not looking to go on ebay and restore broken down razors (yet, anyway). I just would like to reach a point where the only cash I have to spend is on soap.

Thank you for your guidance,
Matt

A good coticule and a slurry stone. One rock and you are done.

One JNAT and a slurry stone

Doc226 said:

One JNAT and a slurry stone

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There are many options to refresh a razor, and beware this IS another rabbit hole. For me I would agree with Doc, a good J-Nat and Tomo will do the work nicely.

Matt you just
View attachment 536316
I'm just starting out as well and this is what I have put together.
1) There are many ways to a sharp razor.
There are Japanese natural stones. These use one base stone with different grit smaller stones. Leaves very sharp edges but it almost feels like you need to learn a new language.

Then the Coticule. These are a single base stone that you rub with a smaller stone (a slurry stone). You rub these stones to loosen up the particles of the stones (a slurry) The thicker the slurry the more course the cutting. You proceed to dilute the slurry with water to achieve a finer edge.

Then the synthetic stones. These are man made stones that has a standard grit rating. You just buy a progression you want (3000k - 5000k - 8000k- 12000 - 20000k ) and run through them.

Then there are films. These are basically just like synthetic stones except the abrasives are on a thin layer of plastic. You need a flat piece of glass or granite to work on. This is the cheapest way in.

There are Arkansas stone which I don't really understand. They seem based on hardness and you go from a softer stone to a harder stone.

Lastly there are Thuringians. I believe that these work just like the coticules.

2) The hard thing here is each system has its fan base. If you start reading threads about them you will quickly get bogged down with flaming comments, different options and some of the funniest thing you will read on this forum.

Once again I am so new to this and this is just what I have pieced together so I am probably wrong. I'm sure someone else will jump in.

Doc226 said:

One JNAT and a slurry stone

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This is a great way to go. Problem is which JNat. This is not so easy. The names of the stones don't tell the whole story. Someone has to test them. Even the Nagura slurry stones vary in ability. But, if you have a specific budget, this group can guide you to a good JNat. Good ones often show up on the hobbiest section with honest descriptions. Probably the safest and most cost effective source. But you might have to wait. New stones can be bout from TheJapanStone or AFramesTokyo. Those vendors test and describe their stones.

mattmaybloom said:

Hi guys,

I have recently fallen down the rabbit hole of straight shaving, and I really like it.
Matt

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Months from now this will read 'I have recently fallen down the rabbit hole of honing razors, and I really like it.'

Great post, imatabor!

Matt,

I was in your shoes recently trying to decide between synthetics, coticule or jnat for honing. What worked for me was to try each edge to see what I liked best. I sent off three razors to Alfredo and then setup as close of a control test as I could. Compared notes and decided I liked the jnat edge the best.

If I was a more patient person, I would have sent the same razor to Alfredo three different times for three different edges, just to add one more control variable.

bluesman 7 said:

Great post, imatabor!

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+1

So for each person, the only way is their way!

Bud Man said:

So for each person, the only way is their way!

Click to expand...

Some truth to this

I first started out with synthetics, Norton then added the nani 12K, just did not like the edges

Coticule, very smooth but lacked some keenenss

I never honed on a ark but tried a few edges, very sharp but lacked something

There same as arks for me

A JNAT edge was just right for me.

In my Oh So Humbe opinion, the easiest and also he least expensive way to start honing is with Lapping film. It removes many of the variables with natural stones. Once you get to where you can hone on film then you are ready to learn the many litle things that come with naturals. Many people never move away from film as you can get very good edges with it.

To be honest, until you learn pretty good shaving technique with your straights you probably will not really be able to feel the difference in the various edges anyway. I know I could not.

I now hone on JNats and just recently playing with Coticules just because I was curious. All give nice edges once you learn how to use them.

I agree that until your shaving technique is up to par you might not feel the difference in edges.

It's also best not to jump into naturals without doing some due diligence research because they can be expensive. A JNat and a tomo would be fine as would a Coticule or a Thuringian.

If if you wanted to do JNats, talk to Alex at thejapanstone.com and tell him you want to maintain a razor and a tomo nagura. At AFramestokyo.com, ask Takeshi for a barner hone or kamisori size, no harder than 9.0 and 9.0 or finer.

For a coticule, I'd talk to Jarrod at The Superior Shave, tell him what you want to do.

Cheers, Steve

I think most people who work whatever system they choose will be able to find their happy place with it.
A lot of the honage broohaha, IMO, has to do with the grass seeming greener on the other side of the fence.

Also my opinion, I believe that many people give up on this/that stone/system because they interface better with one or another better.
I personally enjoy edges from a few different systems, Cotis, Thuris, Jnats, etc. I usually use Jnats because, most of the time, I prefer working with their idiosyncrasies more than I do with other hones.

For stones -
Thuris - I firmly believe that a Thuri is the stupid-easiest hone to use and they'll keep edges going indefinitely, barring accidents. Shaveability off them is wonderful. Keen and smooth - lovely edges come off Thuris.

Cotis are great - love them. Takes more learning than a Thuri but has more honing latitude. They work wonderfully, once you learn them. Shaveability here is also great - Thuris might hold an edge over the Coti edge for me quite often, but it's stone dependent - my Les Lat hybrids kick serious Thuri butt. Regardless - I've not had a Coti I can't shave well off of.

Jnats - can cost more, or not. Depends on the stone, hype from the Magi selling it, the buzz from the flavor of the month crowd, and who put what stamp on it. Jnats are my favorite type of stone, but they're not the only hones I use. Not every Jnat serves the purpose of touching up or finishing as well as another one - so there's that to deal with. A lot of what is/is not a finisher is subjective though. Learning Jnats can be somewhat involved - and a fair bit of testing might be called for. For me - the best edges come off the more difficult-to-use stones. I think edges off soft stones are, generally, very Coti like so I'll use a Coti for that type of thing. I've found that the stupid-sharp edges are only really possible on the hardest stones. I've had very little issue using hones that hard, but not everyone feels the same way. Even so, if all else is equal, I'd choose/recommend a harder stone over a softer one 99.99% of the time.
(Edit - hardness is not the only factor here, just because the stone is hard does not mean it's a winner. There's too much to get into on this topic here - so I just referenced things loosely. There are plenty of very hard stones that are, essentially - useless - out there, so before shifting into LV 5+++ mode, it's best to check the lay of the land first.)

Arks - killer hones. Slow - not too expensive, take some work to condition just right. Easy enough to use. The best ones for finishing do not have the latitude the previous choices might have. At the same time - a properly edged razor off an Ark is a brilliant shaving tool and, IMO, (nearly) impossible to equal or beat.

Welsh slates - cheap options, the purple one was the best of the lot for me.

Naniwa 12k (or similar) - takes a bit of mastering but it'll do fine as a touch up hone. Limited in scope, not too pricey, and probably best used in conjunction with an 8k before it. I plan on gluing an 8k to a 12k at some point, then I'll cut it down to size and I'll have a nice modern two sided b-hone that can do, basically, anything I need a hone like that to do. Shavability off the 12k, when done correctly, is good. I'm not a synth finishing kind of guy most of the time, but the fact is that I can shave pretty well off that stone when the ground work was done correctly and the finish was applied correctly.

Barber hones - a Frictionite 00 will do the trick, and a few others also - but they're way too expensive IMO. A reg b-hone might suit ones tates too, but there's a good bit ot trial/error and effort in this option.

Truthfully - a Cromox pasted strop will cost about 10 bucks and it'll keep an edge going a reeeeeaaaaalllly long time. I started there. Kept me going while learning and using that approach helped me learn a lot about honing and edges. Personally - I prefer the white TI paste over the Chromox, costs a few dollars more. Someone sent me a sample of the black Dovo paste and while it's good I think I prefer the white TI stuff but it's pretty good and also better than Chromox for me.

Someone could test a few edges from a few different people to see what they like or don't like. The main issue I have with that is that there is no guarantee that you will ever get the same edge of of xyz stone that someone else did.
See - I've tried some Jnat edges, and if I thought those razors were truly representative of that Jnats could do - I might not be interested. With hones - I find that it is mostly about what the owner/user of the hone can do with it. Coti edges run the gamut, mellow to brisk and sharp as hell. Same for Jnats. Thuris are more consistent but the user's talents still weigh in heavily. If someone wants to hone, I think the only way to know what's what is by trying different stones. The good news is that there's little risk - most hones sell for about what they cost so there's usually not too much investment-loss. I see it the same way as renting a lens before I buy it - costs a few bucks but at least I get to see what it'll do first hand. Each Coti/Thuri/Jnat/etc is going to be a little different, but I still see the process being very similar.

Pick one, buy it, use it, learn how to use it better each time you use it.
You'll probably surprise yourself after a few go-arounds. There is nothing like having one, and only one, hone to help someone learn how to hone with that one hone proficiently.

Great post Keith.

I'm staying out of this one...

I can't thank you all enough for your very detailed and informative responses. I think for now I'll focus on my shaving and stroping technique and then worry about honing later.

I can't thank you guys enough for your overwhelming support!!

Matt

Gamma said:

I think most people who work whatever system they choose will be able to find their happy place with it.
A lot of the honage broohaha, IMO, has to do with the grass seeming greener on the other side of the fence.

Also my opinion, I believe that many people give up on this/that stone/system because they interface better with one or another better.
I personally enjoy edges from a few different systems, Cotis, Thuris, Jnats, etc. I usually use Jnats because I prefer working with their idiosyncrasies more than I do with other hones most of the time.

For stones -
Thuris - I firmly believe that a Thuri is the stupid-easiest hone to use and they'll keep edges going indefinitely, barring accidents. Shaveability off them is wonderful. Keen and smooth - lovely edges come off Thuris.

Cotis are great - love them. Takes more leaning than a Thuri but has more honing latitude. They work wonderfully, once you learn them. Shaveability here is also great - Thuris might hold an edge for me quite often, but it's stone dependent - my Les Lat hybrids kick serious Thuri butt. Regardless - I've not had a Coti I can't shave well off of.

Jnats - can cost more, or not. Depends on the stone, hype from the Magi selling it, the buzz from the flavor of the month crowd, and who put what stamp on it. Jnats are my favorite type of stone, but they're not the only hones I use. Not every Jnat serves the purpose of touching up or finishing as well as another one - so there's that to deal with. A lot of what is/is not a finisher is subjective though. Learning Jnats is involved - and a fair bit of testing might be called for. For me - the best edges come off the more difficult-to-use stones. I think edges off soft stones are, generally, very Coti like so I'll use a Coti for that type of thing. I've found that the stupid-sharp edges are only really possible on the hardest stones. I've had very little issue using hones that hard, but not everyone feels the same way. Even so, if all else is equal, I'd choose/recommend a harder stone over a softer one 99.99% of the time.

Arks - killer hones. Slow - not too expensive, take some work to condition just right. Easy enough to use. The best onnes for finishing do not have the latitude the previous choices might have. At the same time - a properly edged razor off an Ark is a brilliant shaving tool and, IMO, (nearly) impossible to equal or beat.

Welsh slates - cheap options, the purple one was the best of the lot for me.

Naniwa 12k (or similar) - takes a bit of mastering but it'll do fine as a touch up hone. Limited in scope, not too pricey, and probably best used in conjunction with an 8k before it. I plan on gluing an 8k to a 12k at some point, then I'll cut it down to size and I'll have a nice modern two sided b-hone that can do, basically, anything I need a hone like that to do. Shavability off the 12k, when done correctly, is good. I'm not a synth finishing kind of guy most of the time, but the fact is that I can shave pretty well off that stone when the ground work was done correctly and the finish was applied correctly.

Barber hones - a Frictionite 00 will do the trick, and a few others also - but they're way too expensive IMO. A reg b-hone might suit ones tates too, but there's a good bit ot trial/error and effort in this option.

Truthfully - a Cromox pasted strop will cost about 10 bucks and it'll keep an edge going a reeeeeaaaaalllly long time. I started there. Kept me going while learning and using that approach helped me learn a lot about honing and edges. Personally - I prefer the white TI paste over the Chromox, costs a few dollars more. Someone sent me a sample of the black Dovo paste and while it's good I think I prefer the white TI stuff but it's pretty good and also better than Chromox for me.

Someone could test a few edges from a few different people to see what they like or don't like. The main issue I have with that is that there is no guarantee that you will ever get an edge of of xyz stone that someone else did.
See - I've tried some Jnat edges, and if I thought those razors were truly representative of that Jnats could do - I might not be interested. With hones - I find that it is mostly about what the owner/user of the hone can do with it. Coti edges run the gamut, mellow to brisk and sharp as hell. Same for Jnats. Thuris are more consistent but the user's talents still weigh in heavily. If someone wants to hone, I think the only way to know what's what is by trying different stones. The good news is that there's little risk - most hones sell for about what they cost so there's usually not too much investment-loss. I see it the same way as renting a lens before I buy it - costs a few bucks but at least I get to see what it'll do first hand. Each Coti/Thuri/Jnat/etc is going to be a little different, but I still see the process being very similar.

Pick one, buy it, use it, learn how to use it better each time you use it.
You'll probably surprise yourself after a few go-arounds. There is nothing like having one, and only one, hone to help someone learn how to hone with it proficiently.

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Great stuff!

Wow Gamma! That should be turned into a sticky. Fantastic information in a clear concise manner. Well done Sir!