Why do I need college?

[scorpion]

I manage 65 people in a design-build firm. All the personnel, taxes, insurance, 401k, health plans are my direct responsibility and I do the IT stuff as well. My degree? English. Then I worked with disadvantaged youth for a while, then I was in the Peace Corps, then I was a carpenter for several years. I don't really have a point to make here. My job didn't 'require' the degree - I basically grew up with a young company and found myself running a large part of it. Tough to gauge how important the degree is. Obviously a well-rounded background and good communication skills didn't hurt me any. I do know I wouldn't trade the college experience for anything. I learned a ton and started to become who I am during those years. Is it making me any extra money twenty years later? I have no idea and I don't much care at this point - things are fine. If you want to go to college, find a way to go - you will not regret it. If you don't want to go... don't go.

As for this...

Not Everyone Is College Material. Learning A Trade Is Something To Be Proud Of And Can Make You A Lot Of Money Also. We Need People To Fix Our Plumbing, Build Our Homes And Fix The Lights When It Gets Dark. Do Not Shortchange The Trades For You Or Your Children

The two are not mutually exclusive. We employ at least ten full-time carpenters who have 5 year architectural degrees - they're swinging the hammer because they like to build things. We also have several designers who did several years in the field and we have some who switch back and forth. There's nothing that says you can't go to college and then enter the trades.

 

[scorpion]

Seriously. I went back to college so I wouldn't have to work so hard to earn more money. I don't mind working in an office or wearing a suit. I got tire of working outside, doing laborious work, and smelling like a field hand at the end of the day. I wanted more for myself.


Wanted more what? More money? To be honest, I'm making 4 times what I was a decade ago. Am I happier? Not so sure about that. I'm proud of my position - I worked hard for it. But I miss getting off at 4:30, sweaty and dirty, but being able look at what I'd done that day and leave it there at work until the next day. The management stuff is way more stressful and tends to occupy my mind at all hours. I have more money now... but all in all I'm not quite positive that 'more' is necessarily better. Don't get me wrong - things are fine, but I've lived long enough to know that if I magically had a zillion dollars tomorrow, it would bring just as many problems as it solved.

 

[castlecraver]

Burma,

I don't want to sound too critical of your post as I agree with just about every point therein. However, I find it a little disappointing that many of the points are things that aren't necessarily expected of a high school graduate, or a young man who's perceptive, resourceful and intelligent enough at 18 or so to run his own life. IMHO, we're sending a lot of kids off to University who are way too immature. Writing and communication skills? Punctuality? Frugality? How to listen, research, and apply critical thinking skills? One shouldn't have to have any college experience to attain these basic life skills, and I'd consider myself a bit of a failure as a parent if I wasn't certain my children were ready to apply them before I sent them off to college (or wherever they chose to go after high school).

For what it's worth, I consider college an investment like any other. Some people get along fine without it. Indeed, several of the most financially prosperous people I know only have high school diplomas. But there are certainly more important things than money. I developed an interest in science, and even with the understanding that it will probably never make me rich, I've invested 8 years of my life so far learning how to be the best researcher I can be. With the eventual payoff (hopefully) being a professorship which will allow me to teach and lead my own research. So yes, it depends on your priorities and your field. If you're able to narrow down the big choices early on, you'll have a pretty good idea of whether it's a wise investment of your time and money. Otherwise, I'm not sure it's always the best choice for people who are constantly "undecided."

 

[Nick75]

Burma,

I don't want to sound too critical of your post as I agree with just about every point therein. However, I find it a little disappointing that many of the points are things that aren't necessarily expected of a high school graduate, or a young man who's perceptive, resourceful and intelligent enough at 18 or so to run his own life. IMHO, we're sending a lot of kids off to University who are way too immature. Writing and communication skills? Punctuality? Frugality? How to listen, research, and apply critical thinking skills? One shouldn't have to have any college experience to attain these basic life skills, and I'd consider myself a bit of a failure as a parent if I wasn't certain my children were ready to apply them before I sent them off to college (or wherever they chose to go after high school).

For what it's worth, I consider college an investment like any other. Some people get along fine without it. Indeed, several of the most financially prosperous people I know only have high school diplomas. But there are certainly more important things than money. I developed an interest in science, and even with the understanding that it will probably never make me rich, I've invested 8 years of my life so far learning how to be the best researcher I can be. With the eventual payoff (hopefully) being a professorship which will allow me to teach and lead my own research. So yes, it depends on your priorities and your field. If you're able to narrow down the big choices early on, you'll have a pretty good idea of whether it's a wise investment of your time and money. Otherwise, I'm not sure it's always the best choice for people who are constantly "undecided."

Good post .

 

[Sean]

Why I didn't need college...

I learned a skill/trade. Hey, maybe I'll never be rich, but I have a wonderul fiancee, live comfortably and have a pretty good job that pays well and I live without want. Most importantly? I'm HAPPY.

My two best friends who went to college are miserable, working in offices/cubicles, making less than me with twice the bills. And I think most people, if told what they do and how much they make, would say that those two are 'successfull'.

Please don;t take this as me saying don;t go to collehge, just that other avenues are there and those avenues can lead to success and happiness... even riches if that's your defintion of success and/or happiness.

Another friend from HS spent 6 years in college, got a good job and got laid off it when the firm got bought. I saw him right after the firing and he was saying that he was kind of bothered that everyone told him he HAD TO go to college, it was the ONLY path to success. He wished someone had told him the option of learning a trade when he was High school age. Maybe nothing would have changed but he felt like he missed a very real option.

He's currently a moderately successful woodworker, financially. Happiness wise the guys on cloud 9.

 

[blacksr]

This is in response to the OP who wanted to know if we are using what we got our degrees in. I get the impression that he may not think college is worth the time. I went back to college full time just this year. I have listened to recent high school graduate whine and complain about going to college. I felt the same way when I finished HS. I lived to regret not getting my degree.

After earning 37 hours this year here are a few observations I made about college and why it's important:

1. Colleges and universities provide the skill and tools necessary to compete. All the essays that you write are necessary to develop communications skills and to show you know the subject. If you are unable to express yourself clearly and coherently you're likely to end up with a job where communication isn't as important as grunt work....Do you want fries with that coke?

2. Forming study groups introduces the student to teamwork and to work effectively with others by sharing thoughts, ideas, and to develop solutions to problems. It is very rare that one is hired to work exclusively by themselves.

3. Attending classes on time every day teaches the student that tardiness is not tolerated and attendance is important to keeping a job. Who would likely keep someone on the payroll if they were constantly late or missed excessive number of days? Remember mommy and daddies aren’t around to wake up so you won't be late for work!

4. A research paper teaches students the importance of patience and accurate information gathering. Some jobs require market research, product development, etc. There is a correlation.

5. College teaches the student how to be a good listener and how to follow directions, if you fail at both of these your likely to fail the course and get fired from your job. The ability to listen and follow directions is the cornerstone of employment. What manager will keep you on the payroll if he has to constantly tell you what to do or leave written instructions because you can't remember how to do your job?

6. Earning a degree is one way to prove to an employer that you won't give up. If you give up on your degree you're also giving up on yourself. Employers want a person they can depend on to finish what they start, regardless of how challenging the job may be. The only thing between earning a degree or not is the student. There are other variables involved but people have greater control of their lives than they realize...free will.

7. Exams are a way for a student to learn to work under the pressure of a ticking clock and to deal with anxiety and the unknown. I don't know of anyone who hasn't worked under the pressure of a deadline. An exam also teaches the student how to prepare and develop study routines.

8. The process of an education is the education itself. You are teaching yourself to learn. Earning your degree is not the end of your education only the beginning. Your studies will continue when you're hired after graduation; you'll have to learn the company's accounting routine, how the billing works, you may be required to develop training material, or be asked to improve supply chain efficiency. That may not be what your degree is in. What will you tell your new manager, 'I didn't learn that in college...find someone else!' No, you'll learn what you need to do and successfully complete the assigned project.

9. Once you graduate your likely to make a lot of money. Your education may not be in finance. So, how do you avoid making financial mistakes? By learning how to manage your personal finances, the same way you learned the subjects you studied in college. If you majored in engineering, you weren't born an engineer you had to learn how to be one. The same is true with finances. If your smart you'll learn personal finances on your own so you can keep the money you make longer. If you don't learn how to manage your personal finances you'll be a victim of your own ignorance.

10. You'll learn how to effectively manage your time, to unclutter your day of time wasting activities. You'll learn what it is to be a responsible adult. OMG!!! You're learning to be a grown up!!!

11. If you want to promote regularly or become part of the management team you'll need a MS or MBA and most company's will pay for them.

12. Most companies require a minimum 3.0 GPA otherwise they won't even accept your application for employment. You have one chance to make good grades and keep them up.

College is more than books, doing research papers, making new friends, or cramming for an exam. Its also the journey, the things you experience while in college. You'll find out that you can do more than you thought you could. You'll build confidence in college and you'll need that confidence when you get your first real job or get promoted into that first real management position.

all these skills you speak of should be acquired with a high school education and minimal job experience. i don't see one valid point in this post. you reference things like time management, communication, working as a team, pressure, commitment, punctuality... do you feel that these skills are not likely to be acquired by any moderately ambitious high school graduate after 4 years of work history?

you then discuss many things that pretty much nullify any argument you tried to put together by listing many things your degree does NOT prepare you for.

 

[Shane]

all these skills you speak of should be acquired with a high school education and minimal job experience. i don't see one valid point in this post. you reference things like time management, communication, working as a team, pressure, commitment, punctuality... do you feel that these skills are not likely to be acquired by any moderately ambitious high school graduate after 4 years of work history?

you then discuss many things that pretty much nullify any argument you tried to put together by listing many things your degree does NOT prepare you for.

Saying you don't see one valid point in this post is a bit rude. I see a few, but the most important point that I think a few people are missing is that these are BurmaShave's own personal reflections on what he feels he needs. The twelve talking points he's using are his own findings and how he thinks a college education can enhance his life, as well as the lives of others out there. Is it for everyone? No, but then again, what is for everyone?

And trust me, if all of those skills were able for acquisition just for graduating high school and having minimal job experience, there would be a lot of empty colleges throughout the world. College isn't for everyone, but for those that valued their respective college educations, it's quite impossible to replace the skills, in and out of the classroom, that are used every single day.

 

[Androclese]

I remember something an uncle told me while I was still in grade school. He said you can loose just about anything (jobs stuff etc.), but you can't loose an education. Get as much as you can where ever you can get it.

 

[Walravine]

If you want to know the value of a college education from a billionaire's point of view, I highly recommend reading this book: All the Money in the World: How the Forbes 400 Make--and Spend--Their Fortunes. Very interesting and quite surprising in some ways.

 

[Roman414]

I read a study recently that said a degree is not necessarily a good investment financially. Two kids, one goes to college and the other gets a job. While one is spending and running up student loans, the other is earning money and advancing in a trade. The college guy starts out four years behind and in debt. If the other is in a lucrative trade like plumbing or something, the college man never catches up.
That said, I would hire someone with a degree over someone without it, all other things being fairly equal. The college degree is a character reference, in my opinion. It shows they had the character to stick with something, not always pleasant, for four years and complete it.

 

[Woknblues]

financial should be your absolute last reason to go to college, IMHO.

factors like what industry and what field you work in, as well as what the current economic trends are, etc. are so much more a factor in what kind of money you can make.

what people should be focused on when going to college IS the increase in choices that they can make regarding a profession, and a greater chance for positive subjective feelings towards their working life.

 

[aardvark]

Attending college allows one to expand horizons and move away form a certain narrowness of view.

Just completing a four year degree helps develop discipline, which can be transferred to a variety of activities.

Personally, I think that there is too much emphasis on getting a degree exclusively for the job market.

 

[Bowcephalus]

There are folks who earn with their mind, and there are folks who earn with their backs, but the most successful use both as much as possible to leave the other two groups in the dust......There is usually a difference in the way a college educated person presents him/herself as with most military people, that becomes and advantage throughout life. Education is a tool that enriches throughout life in more ways than economically.....The sooner it is accumulated, the greater becomes the portion of that lifespan that is enriched....Experience is a great teacher but by it's nature is bound to time moreso than the springboard of an early formal education.....Get as much as you can as soon as you can as practically as you can....

 

[JohnnyKent]

I too am currently in college and feel it is a complete waste of time. The reason I'm in college is that I worked for a large american industruial company named Dupont and was with them for almost 8 years (since I was 18). Recently after already being promoted to assistant supervisor and being promised a supervisors position a position came open. I was passed up for a so called smart college dick with only 3 months service. In almost 8 years I had never been late nor tardy and at times had more than 40 people working for me. I resigned back in July and now I just found out that they had a huge lay off before Christmas. Most of the so-called highly trained engineers with their B.S. degrees could not even draw a circle on a piece of paper (big bunch of over educated dum-asses!). What happend to good ole hard work and work ethics? After going back to school I realize that just about anyone can pass if their there on time and at class and do assigned home work. This is just my observation but I find it as fact. No lessons are greater than life than hard work, good work ethics and loyalty to a company! In my opinion this is why the company(DuPont) is shutting down, due to poorly chosen and over educated management. I feel this is happening accross America.

 

[ScottS]

One of the best bits of advice I was ever offered was to not graduate high school without knowing something that would help you earn a living. "The best laid plans..." and all.

 

[Pat Flanagan]

In high school you learn things. In college you learn how to think.

A college degree will "qualify" you for better jobs (money & quality of work life). Of course just because you qualify for better jobs doesn't automatically mean you will get one of them.

A college degree will get you more interviews than a high school diploma will get you.

Even if you never "use" your degree, it's not a bad thing to have in your back pocket -- just in case. Kind of like an insurance policy.


PF

 

[Bubarubu]

“Why college?” is a very good question, and one that far too few students ever think to ask. If you go to college just to get information, you will find your education sorely lacking. Most humanities disciplines (mine included) either provide new information that is of little economic/monetizable value or they provide new ways to describe information you already have. Most social scientific disciplines will provide undergraduates with just enough statistically significant information that they don’t go looking for more information, and so little context that they don’t know how to apply the information they have. Most “hard” scientific disciplines don’t provide students enough information to make their education directly useful, but instead give them enough to know they need to go to grad school or med school to make it work.
If you go to college just to learn new skills, you will find your education sorely lacking. Classes are often too large, application of skill sets must happen in contexts well beyond the scope of the classroom, and skills are relatively meaningless without theory to guide their use.
I’m teaching at a big state school that is within 45 of 6 of the 7 largest cities in the state. That means a lot of students here are very close to their parents and they are in class with a lot of the same people they went to high school with. For many of them, college is for socializing and partying. They end up underprepared for most of the jobs they want, working for the people who worked harder, and wasting a lot of someone’s money.
The question is a good one, but also not a question that anyone but the individual student can answer. Go to college with some purpose in mind. That purpose may change, but it provides a context in which new information and skills can be applied. The purpose also provides a guiding principle for making choices about classes, majors, extracurriculars, internships, etc. So many of my students are just in college because someone told them they should be. When students complain that they don’t see how a concept would be applicable outside of the classroom, I ask them what they want to do outside of the classroom. When they don’t have an answer, I am happy to point out that they can’t see the utility of the concept when they have no purpose to achieve. Students who do have an answer tend to ask how they can apply the concept, not whether they can.
Also, go to college with realistic expectations. A bachelor’s degree is a signal that you have some specialized knowledge and skills. You will not finish an undergraduate career knowing everything about anything. If you just learn the stuff you’re tested on, then you’ve done less than half the work. You should also learn where the information is, how you can learn more and stay current after you graduate.

As of the 2000 US Census, 80% of Americans over the age of 25 have graduated from high school. 24.4% have at least a bachelor's degree. In 1940, less than 14% of people over 25 had graduated from high school. In other words, the relative value of a college degree is dropping and a degree is becoming more of a minimum standard in many places rather than a sign of strong qualifications.

 

[OldSchoolYoungin]

Not Everyone Is College Material. Learning A Trade Is Something To Be Proud Of And Can Make You A Lot Of Money Also. We Need People To Fix Our Plumbing, Build Our Homes And Fix The Lights When It Gets Dark. Do Not Shortchange The Trades For You Or Your Children

You're 100% correct. It seems that the majority of men in my family have been engineers, including my father. However, my father found out he was a much happier man working with his hands (contracting) and he probably even earned more than most jobs offer with a mechanical engineering degree. My grandfather on the other hand, with a mechanical engineering degree as well, actually worked in the field and was a busy, miserable man. He was not able to spend nearly as much time with his family as he liked, and traveled far too much.

However, a degree is certainly worthy of pursuing, IMO. It's true that you can make it without one, but it's often very difficult if you aren't especially skilled in a specific trade or if you don't have the resources at your disposal for some other kind of plan. I know many extremely intelligent men who missed their calling without a degree, and are stuck with low-paying jobs they don't enjoy.
It's great if you are very skilled and successful in a trade, although nowadays you often need to attend a technical school as well. A degree may not be totally necessary, but it certainly opens doors. If you DO have your degree or are in the process of pursuing it, atleast you won't regret that later down the line.

 

[FriscoSoxFan]

I really think it depends on your personaility.

If you are a natural born salesman, for example there are a great number of commission-only jobs that require nothing more than drive. A few excellent suits and some selling books to read might be all it takes.

For some, a trade or apprenticeship might be better. Learn the ropes so you can eventually start your own business.

For some, taking a 100k co-signed loan and buying a franchise might be a better route.

That being said, I agree with your overall setiment. However, as Socrates said, "know thyself"

 

[BurmaShave]

all these skills you speak of should be acquired with a high school education and minimal job experience. i don't see one valid point in this post. you reference things like time management, communication, working as a team, pressure, commitment, punctuality... do you feel that these skills are not likely to be acquired by any moderately ambitious high school graduate after 4 years of work history?

you then discuss many things that pretty much nullify any argument you tried to put together by listing many things your degree does NOT prepare you for.

It would be nice if these skills were acquired during HS or with a first time job but there not. The fact is a small majority of HS graduate do have these skills when they graduate, these are the same students that will graduate at the top 5% from college.

The rest of the HS graduates that enter college have a different agenda. It isn't uncommon for a student to sleep or spend the entire class time texting their buddies when the should be taking lecture notes. Most of the students only want to know specifically what will be on the test and nothing more.

When I organize a study group of at least five students total, there is usually only two that show up that has even read the material or done any of the assigned problems. The rest want us to teach them what they missed in class while they slept or texted. The ones that don't show up don't call to say they' can't make it or going to be late.

When the professors asks us to form groups of five or six for a project they resist when we organize to divide the work equally between us, they resist when we try to set up regular meetings to check the progress of the group to see who need help with their part. When we have our progress meetings there are two or three that haven't done a single thing. They assure us that they'll do their part and not to worry. When the project is due in less than a week they still don't have anything to show and this makes the rest of us nervous. I don't like my GPA to depend on what other students do or don't do on a group project. I don't know what your definition of teamwork is but in my book this isn't it.

Based on what I've seen having been back in college for a year only a minority of moderately ambitious students that show any of these skills that employers want; teamwork, communications, work ethics, commitment, and time management. What I do see is a flurry of activity, stress, panic stricken students trying to get a research paper or project done two days before its due.

I can tell you from my professional experience the work ethics that the recent HS graduate exhibit wouldn't get them job at night swabbing out toilets and emptying cafeteria garbage cans.

Most of the students are only interested in getting the degree. They don't remember from one exam to the next what they've learned. If you're paying attention in class, if a student uses a small amount of critical thinking what a he learns his first year of college will help him in his last year of college. In other words they can't connect the dots.

If a person is bound and determined to believe that a college degree is a waste of time there isn't anything that's going to change your mind. If you're in college with that same attitude you're going to hate it every step of the way. Why would you make yourself that miserable? You can always get a trade and let that college grad with no experience make more money than you with better hours.

The idea of going back didn't appeal to me either but I decided to make the best of it and actually I'm having a great time. I'm excelling in courses that I never thought I'd have a chance at.