You bring up another good point and that is that we spend about 15% more if we pay by card vs cash. The feeling of cash in our hand leaving it is much more tactile and emotional than swiping (ohh I'm old. inserting, tapping) the card. No wonder they want to go cash less and of course the side affect is that they would know all that you buy.
Are We Luddites?
- Thread starter Mr. Shavington
- Start date
I remember when I could smoke a good cigar after a good steak in a good steakhouse. Or smoke my pipe at the park.
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
Paying with data can definitely save you money. Take store loyalty cards for example. In my local supermarket, there are a myriad of products which will come with 50% savings if you have a loyalty card (and make a personal data payment, so they can track your spending as an individual).
I try to avoid those blue ticket (in my supermarket) prices altogether. I don't want to pay with data, nor pay the privacy tax/penalty (full price) for not letting them stalk me. As such, I will either buy an completely different product instead, or buy that item elsewhere. If they'd just knock 25% off for everyone instead, then I would be more likely to buy it.
Likewise, I do expect to pay a little more for in person shopping, than buying from Amazon (et al) and having it delivered. Once I have factored in the data costs, I consider the higher cash price to be cheaper overall. Not all goods have a local cash option though, and so sometimes your options are to pay with both cash and data, or to go without. Most shaving goods discussed here would be in that category, for example.
If you are buying a larger item. Say a sofa or a washing machine and you go to a non-chain store. Cash can give you quite a bit of negotiation power whereas card does not because the store does not have to pay the fees associated with the card transaction.
- Thread starter
- #25
Oh no. Has it really come to this, that you look foolish if you go into a hifi store with CDs? When did they send out the email saying CD was over? I don’t think I got it, but I’ve just started to notice that everyone else knows.
Reminds me of this old comedy sketch from the early ‘90s, I think.
I posted this elsewhere, but it bears repeating:
Yes, streaming is convenient, but it is fraught with peril.
In February of 2024, Steven Van Zandt lost 650 movies he had purchased from streaming services. Gone.
If it can happen to a famous musician, do you think they care about peons such as you and I?
We have seen books, films, and music pulled from public viewing.
We have witnessed in our lifetime Ian Fleming and Roald Dahl having their books edited by the printer to remove "offensive" language or terms.
Disney limited the distribution and marketing of Martin Scorsese's film Kundun due to pressure from the Chinese Government.
You don't own anything you don't have a physical copy of. It could be gone with a change of the wind. Even if it isn't "disappeared", it can be slowly and subtly changed so that it does not reflect the words or the intent of the original author/artist.
It's serious enough that Filmmakers Christopher Nolan (Dunkirk, Oppenheimer, Interstellar) and Guillermo del Toro (The Shape of Water, Pan's Labyrinth, Blade) recently discussed it on Xwitter:
Yes, streaming is convenient, but it is fraught with peril.
In February of 2024, Steven Van Zandt lost 650 movies he had purchased from streaming services. Gone.
If it can happen to a famous musician, do you think they care about peons such as you and I?
We have seen books, films, and music pulled from public viewing.
We have witnessed in our lifetime Ian Fleming and Roald Dahl having their books edited by the printer to remove "offensive" language or terms.
Disney limited the distribution and marketing of Martin Scorsese's film Kundun due to pressure from the Chinese Government.
You don't own anything you don't have a physical copy of. It could be gone with a change of the wind. Even if it isn't "disappeared", it can be slowly and subtly changed so that it does not reflect the words or the intent of the original author/artist.
It's serious enough that Filmmakers Christopher Nolan (Dunkirk, Oppenheimer, Interstellar) and Guillermo del Toro (The Shape of Water, Pan's Labyrinth, Blade) recently discussed it on Xwitter:
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Check out these Luddites.
- Thread starter
- #28
Yeah. I lost all my digital photos and music twice. Once when my PC hard drive got x-rayed during a move from Singapore to UK, and once more when Apple deployed an OS update that destroyed my iPad.
But, hey, no worries now. Just buy a cloud storage subscription and they’ll store it all for you, until they stop doing that or they have a data issue. They make Apple devices with nearly no memory now to try and force you onto the cloud and make you pay a monthly fee for access to your own personal photos. What was the original title to Philip K Dick’s story Total Recall? We can remember it for you, wholesale?
So much for the dystopian future - we’re living in the dystopian present.
More of an antiquarian. I like a lot of older things and I've more or less always been that way. Not to say newer things are bad, necessarily, but change for the sake of change is not an improvement.
- Thread starter
- #30
I would, but I haven’t paid for a subscription to read your link.
Luddites would just grow beards, surely?
Every film, TV show, photo, and piece of music I own is digitally copied, and is in two different media backup locations.
I have nothing in the cloud.
14,000 songs, over 2000 movies, over 300 different TV series, and thousands of photos.
I don't have a digital copy of all of my beloved books yet, but I do have the books themselves.
Everything was better before
Well I can totally get this ever changing world hold on technology and the impacts.
At 66, I have spent and still spend my working portion of my life around software development.
My great parent instilled within me at early age a few checks and balances to keep me centered.
Balance in Life, Gratefulness, Respect, Awareness, Focus, Listening, Giving, Openness....& so much more.
As soon as I off work ( working for home, as I type this), I try to invoke the balance.
After dinner, I may go down to the basement and work on some woodworking.
I also still practice martial arts, read a book, keep the mind and hand moving.
That takes just walking away ( staying away) from technology for awhile. Balance.
Spending time with my wife and kids ( now young adults).
Sure technology, changes I don't like or embrace but still may have to deal with can be challenging.
Damn I miss my 8- track tapes in my 67 firebird even when it was in the middle of a song.
Or memories of my dad, just letting try to tune in a station on AM radio....
"I'm a walkin in the rain....."
Adapt, deal - lessen or drop....
Maybe it is just to simplistic of an attitude but it keeps me running happy and healthy
YMMV
Just like shaving, we need to find what works best for you!
Make the best of what we got...
BFX
My very best to all
Sorry > off work - technology shut down time...
Note: I was also highly influenced by Bruce Lee.
At 66, I have spent and still spend my working portion of my life around software development.
My great parent instilled within me at early age a few checks and balances to keep me centered.
Balance in Life, Gratefulness, Respect, Awareness, Focus, Listening, Giving, Openness....& so much more.
As soon as I off work ( working for home, as I type this), I try to invoke the balance.
After dinner, I may go down to the basement and work on some woodworking.
I also still practice martial arts, read a book, keep the mind and hand moving.
That takes just walking away ( staying away) from technology for awhile. Balance.
Spending time with my wife and kids ( now young adults).
Sure technology, changes I don't like or embrace but still may have to deal with can be challenging.
Damn I miss my 8- track tapes in my 67 firebird even when it was in the middle of a song.
Or memories of my dad, just letting try to tune in a station on AM radio....
"I'm a walkin in the rain....."
Adapt, deal - lessen or drop....
Maybe it is just to simplistic of an attitude but it keeps me running happy and healthy
YMMV
Just like shaving, we need to find what works best for you!
Make the best of what we got...
BFX
My very best to all
Sorry > off work - technology shut down time...
Note: I was also highly influenced by Bruce Lee.
- To know oneself is to study oneself in action with another person,”
- Lee also liked to balance “thinking time” with “doing time.” He reserved time for reflective thought that would trigger what he called “a flash of understanding.” This insight would propel him into action. Balancing thought and action kept him moving forward. He knew that too much analysis could undermine his productivity. “If you spend too much time thinking about a thing, you’ll never get it done.”
Because people in intel will tell you cell phones are essentially "listening devices".
I'm not against technology. I absolutely love my (reasonably) large HD TV. The picture quality is stunning, it's much lighter than the old cathode ray type, costs less when adjusted for inflation and has held up for 10 years now. I also prefer fuel injection to carburetors, semiautomatic handguns to revolvers and, in most cases, GPS to paper maps. That doesn't mean those older designs don't work. They do, and in some cases quite well, but by and large there are serious advantages to the newer technology.
I don't consider 5- and 6-blade cartridges with a lube strip and articulated head an improvement over a 70-year-old Gillette Super Speed, let alone a modern DE safety razor. I can say this because I've used both and the DE razor simply provides a better shave, IMHO. Sometimes marketing and expiring patents don't make for the best or most cost effective products.
Not just listening devices these days friends. Our SigInt friends in the military understand the plethora of information that an enemy can obtain from it. It can be used to triangulate your location, and geotagging can pinpoint precisely where a digital photograph was taken (remember in 2014 when Russia pinky-promised it had not troops in Eastern Ukraine, only for geo-tagged photos of Russian troops that were taken in Eastern Ukraine popped up?). Especially in the form of troop movements, you could likely deduce the size of an enemy force using their cell signals. Couple this with all the Chinese spyware that essentially influences America's youth, add in a sprinkle of the libertarian belief that even teenagers deserve privacy from parents ala snapchat, and yeah... cell phones are kinda dangerous to be honest.
I also completely agree with the gripes of the subscription based streaming services. I understand that is just the thing now, and sadly I've lost a lot of my hard copies of music and movies, so I'm somewhat beholden to digital media in this aspect (though I don't consume very much of it anymore).
On the previous page a few more gripes were brought up. The group that called Insurance or AAA to change a tire. People try to use Emergency Responders as "come save me from my own stupidity services." The OP likes the use of GPS to get anywhere he needs. I actually think good old-fashioned map reading navigation is an important skill. A skill that most people under 30 years old don't possess in quantity anymore. Sure, phone navigation is easy and convenient. But all it would take is a few satellites knocked down (or a computer virus inserted into the system) to render the overwhelming vast majority of the United States essentially lost and unable to drive anywhere further than 3 towns over if it isn't off a major interstate. Conveniences have a nasty habit of over-reliance, to the point that the basic skill set no longer exists.
Plus I like Fountain Pens, automatic watches, black powder firearms, and straight razors. I guess I am a Luddite.
My understanding is a Luddite is someone who not only abjures technology beyond a certain level, but actively participates in efforts to destroy it.
So I ain't a Luddite. I'm an old pharte who doesn't see that a lot of this new stuff is useful to me. My son the graphics and motion capture guru tells me all the wonderful magic he can work with a captive specially trained AI. "Go for it. That's what they're paying you for." Me? Not so much.
I can make a stone tool; flaked or ground. That's cool but steel is so much better.
I can use a chainsaw but I prefer a good crosscut saw, an axe and a few wedges. Our farm has the largest privately-owned solar-tracking power array in all of BC if not in Canada. I use ham radio satellites, digital modes, and good old CW or radiotelegraph. There's a dial phone plugged into the wall next to my computer.
I like to see new understandings and research play out. I like modern razors better than vintage, but I have a few vintage razors that really please me.
I don't multitask and I don't handle change well. That's a condition I've lived with since I was born. So for me, finding a comfortable level and not pushing outside that too far keeps me on a pretty even keel. I try really hard to remember that not everyone shares my context, and I can say honestly that sometimes neurodiversity brings some special powers.
I guess, in the end, like many of you I'm human.
O.H.
So I ain't a Luddite. I'm an old pharte who doesn't see that a lot of this new stuff is useful to me. My son the graphics and motion capture guru tells me all the wonderful magic he can work with a captive specially trained AI. "Go for it. That's what they're paying you for." Me? Not so much.
I can make a stone tool; flaked or ground. That's cool but steel is so much better.
I can use a chainsaw but I prefer a good crosscut saw, an axe and a few wedges. Our farm has the largest privately-owned solar-tracking power array in all of BC if not in Canada. I use ham radio satellites, digital modes, and good old CW or radiotelegraph. There's a dial phone plugged into the wall next to my computer.I like to see new understandings and research play out. I like modern razors better than vintage, but I have a few vintage razors that really please me.
I don't multitask and I don't handle change well. That's a condition I've lived with since I was born. So for me, finding a comfortable level and not pushing outside that too far keeps me on a pretty even keel. I try really hard to remember that not everyone shares my context, and I can say honestly that sometimes neurodiversity brings some special powers.
I guess, in the end, like many of you I'm human.
O.H.
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
Good point. While there are modern aspects of this era that I utterly hate and avoid where possible, I do not try to deny others access to it.
I'm 50, so I've lived before and after the Internet/technology boom. Some things are definitely easier and better - paying bills, buying airline tickets - and some things are more of a pain. Someone mentioned all the hoops you have to jump through if you change your address, and that's certainly one of them. But it all balances out.
I feel very lucky to have gone to school in a time where knowing how to do research (in a library) was a necessary skill. My generation have been able, for the most part, to take those skills and marry them to technology to get the best possible experience. My students do not have those skills, and sometimes assume the first result in a Google search is the right one.
But I didn't start DE shaving because of some romantic ideal of the past. I just wanted a better, cheaper shave. I got that, plus a much more pleasant experience. And I got a community of Internet "friends" who share the same hobby. There's been a lot of changes on B&B, and a lot of members have come and gone (and a few that have passed away), and we've helped each other through various tough times in our lives. That's no small thing.
I feel very lucky to have gone to school in a time where knowing how to do research (in a library) was a necessary skill. My generation have been able, for the most part, to take those skills and marry them to technology to get the best possible experience. My students do not have those skills, and sometimes assume the first result in a Google search is the right one.
But I didn't start DE shaving because of some romantic ideal of the past. I just wanted a better, cheaper shave. I got that, plus a much more pleasant experience. And I got a community of Internet "friends" who share the same hobby. There's been a lot of changes on B&B, and a lot of members have come and gone (and a few that have passed away), and we've helped each other through various tough times in our lives. That's no small thing.
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