Whenever I use only str8s for a while, I have a problem with nicking myself when I go back to a DE. You get used to and don't notice the pressure with a str8, but it suddenly gets you when you pick the DE. Once I adjust, it's fine.
You use pressure with a straight? I'd have thought that you'd need more pressure with a DE, as there is so much more metal lying against your skin. With a straight, the only thing in contact with your skin is that impossibly small area of metal along the edge. For this reason I use no pressure, pressure is what gets you cut.
When I was first using the straights I found in antique shops, I used a little pressure, and needed it to get a good shave (still, it was less than I used with the cartridges). When I learned to hone, they all became a lot sharper, I cut myslef a couple of times, and soon learned to back off on the pressure. For me, when I find myself starting to press a little harder, that's when I need to hone that blade. I put it down and take up another, if I still have a fair bit of face left to shave.
I used the DE with the same zero pressure, still nicked myself, and didn't get a close shave. As you say, it's a different technique.
The Str8 outshines the DE again
- Thread starter Amyn
- Start date
There really shouldn't be a debate as to which gives a closer shave because of their design a straight has to give a closer shave than a DE its as simple as that. If you use both and the DE is giving you better results you just aren't as proficient with a straight as you might think you are.
remember that the way your face feels after a shave is not an indicator. When I use a DE my face is BBS all over but 10 hours later I can start to feel the stubble coming out. When I shave with a straight and my neck especially is not BBS but then 18 hours later it still feels the same. Its only by the next day the stubble is starting to come out.
remember that the way your face feels after a shave is not an indicator. When I use a DE my face is BBS all over but 10 hours later I can start to feel the stubble coming out. When I shave with a straight and my neck especially is not BBS but then 18 hours later it still feels the same. Its only by the next day the stubble is starting to come out.
I resent that. Next thing you know, you'll be telling me I don't know how to sharpen one, either.
Feel free to critique my sharpening technique. If you see anything that you think I'm doing wrong, I welcome your input.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM2tiu8zS0E[/YOUTUBE]
- Thread starter
- #44
Everything looks great.... just one problem looked like the spine was not touching the pavement all the time during the stroke.
...ouch takes the cake again....
Straight has definately started beating out the DE for me. I've used a DE maybe 5 times in the past month or so. My DE collection is down to 3 razors (all Merkur) and I currently have 11 straights... with one on the way.
I take on board all the comments but the real problem is this. I have no problem with getting a sub par shave while I learn to get the technique right, that is not an issue to me. The problem I had is that when I tried it it pulled so fiercely I was unable to shave as it was too painful. This was with a "shave ready" razor. I could not have completed a full pass without being in a lot of pain. I may have to try to get a heavier "shave ready" straight and give that a go. I really would love to master one so its not a lack of motivation on my part, but boy did that thing pull
.Angle is important, sharpness is important, beard prep is important, and the direction of stroke is important. That's a lot of variables.
Can your razor pass the hanging hair test? If not, don't shave with it. Some folks angle the blade, ie not 90 degrees to the dirction the stroke is going in, I "scythe" ie the direction of the stroke changes in a curve. These methods both increase the effectiveness of the blade. A technique known to sfety razor users as the "slide" can also be used, in straight razor terms it is called the "fillet", and needs a little more skill to excecute without cutting yourself.
Blade angle could be the problem though- if you are holding the blade too flat to the skin, it can pull quite badly.
Do play aound with it, try different angles, and different strokes. It can be learned, it just has rather more variables than safety razor shaving.
Can your razor pass the hanging hair test? If not, don't shave with it. Some folks angle the blade, ie not 90 degrees to the dirction the stroke is going in, I "scythe" ie the direction of the stroke changes in a curve. These methods both increase the effectiveness of the blade. A technique known to sfety razor users as the "slide" can also be used, in straight razor terms it is called the "fillet", and needs a little more skill to excecute without cutting yourself.
Blade angle could be the problem though- if you are holding the blade too flat to the skin, it can pull quite badly.
Do play aound with it, try different angles, and different strokes. It can be learned, it just has rather more variables than safety razor shaving.
I would consider myself a skilled DE shaver so I'm very familiar with beard prep etc. I tried different angles but it didn't make one iota of difference. I'm off to Cyprus on tuesday so I shall see if I can get a barber to shave me with a straight and see how it goes. I have done this before in Turkey and got a so so shave so its worth a revisit and I may be able to get some advice there.
If this entire hobby could be distilled down to a single blade, or soap, or cream, or brush, I don't think I would enjoy it all that much. Rather, I love the endless array of products that are great fun to use, and the mindboggling possibilities that ensue.
I love my injectors. I love my DE's, every last one of them. I love my straights. I have dozens of creams that are so good I can't believe it. I find a place for them all.
Today I used an old Shumate, circa 1904-1919, and had a blast.
I love my injectors. I love my DE's, every last one of them. I love my straights. I have dozens of creams that are so good I can't believe it. I find a place for them all.
Today I used an old Shumate, circa 1904-1919, and had a blast.
As my straight technique improves I find just as good a shave, except my neck, from a two pass shave compared to a three pass shave with a DE. The neck still needs work. Somewhat to my surprise, this has been accomplished with a ebay razor I've honed on a barber hone. Just dumb luck I guess.
I'm probably still under a dozen shaves with a straight, but I find I can get my cheeks, neck, and mustache area nearly as good as with a DE - the only place I have real trouble is the very end of my chin. Damn you to hell, slight chin dimple!
Plus, with all the trombone playing I worked for years to keep my chin muscles OUT of my trombone playing, and now I can't remember how to use them to tighten my chin to get it shaved. Heh. I guess I'll just finish up with a quick DE touch up until I figure it out.
Plus, with all the trombone playing I worked for years to keep my chin muscles OUT of my trombone playing, and now I can't remember how to use them to tighten my chin to get it shaved. Heh. I guess I'll just finish up with a quick DE touch up until I figure it out.
He also says that when his AC gets as sharp as a str8 he changes blades.
I predict that when the novelty wears off, he'll be back to his AC.
Besides, a 30K is still a lot carser than a .5 micron (about 50K) and a .25 (about 100K). So, it's not going provide sharpness you couldn't get otherwise.
Ig you used the DE with the same pressure as a str8 you use too much (assuming you hard a sharp razor blade). A str8 won't shave without some pressure (not a lot). When I use Feather blades with a Vision I sometimes use negative pressure (support part of the weight).
That just isn't true, and I wonder what basis you have to prove it.
You can fault my str8 technique, but it's inconsistent with the fact that a Feather str8 cuts as close as any DE. If my techniquewas bad it would also be bad with a Feather str8. I think you need to look at the sharpness of the blade. You can't make a str8 as sharp as a Feather blade.
I agree that before I used Feathers the str8 shaves were always better. Nevertheless, there's no reason to believe that a str8 shave would be inherently better. A lot of the guys that are proficient with both razors are telling you it's not.
Maybe your DE technique isn't as good as you think it is.
Objective test over a long time have shown that a str8 beats most razor/blade combinations, but some beat a str8. My standard is time to stubble up.
Everything is pointing towards a blade that wasn't keen. When it comes to tough beards, str8s tend to have an advantage. I'm sure your technique had a lot to do with it too. Try getting the razor sharpened again, say by Lynn.I take on board all the comments but the real problem is this. I have no problem with getting a sub par shave while I learn to get the technique right, that is not an issue to me. The problem I had is that when I tried it it pulled so fiercely I was unable to shave as it was too painful. This was with a "shave ready" razor. I could not have completed a full pass without being in a lot of pain. I may have to try to get a heavier "shave ready" straight and give that a go. I really would love to master one so its not a lack of motivation on my part, but boy did that thing pull
Huh? First I never even mentioned a feather. I was only talking DE's. I consider a feather a type of straight basically and your right a feather is sharper than a regular straight but then its a type of straight so there is no argument there.
I shaved with a DE for many years before I used a straight and still have a DE in my rotation. As I said, though my face is BBS after a DE shave the stubble appears faster than with a straight. I realize this is a mostly DE based forum but I stick to my guns and say a straight shave will always be closer than a DE. Now if your talking an inexperienced user or a straight thats not honed properly or a poor blade then sure a DE might beat that but I don't think you'll find a well experienced straight user ever tell you that he got an equal or better shave with a DE than with a straight.
If people take offense to the fact that a DE is just an inferior mechanism to a Straight as far as closer shaves go, well sorry guys but thats how I see it. If a DE can equal or best a straight why are all these guys spending all that money on razors, hones, strops, etc and all that time and effort when you could just pop a blade in a DE and do just as good a job or better?
Well Bigspendur,
I am in no way offended by your remarks. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I'm sure it is true for you in particular; but I'm confident it is not universally true for others. What determines a good close shave is not only the mechanism used and technique, but also the type of beard and skin type too. Some shavers work better for different beards and skin types; a straight razor will not necessarily give everyone a better or closer shave. A DE is not in itself an inferior shaver. What you say is not my experience, and I use a straight razor exclusively and have done so for several years now, perhaps longer than you have. Prior to using a straight I used a DE for almost 30 years. I know how to use both very well: I do know how to put a very good edge on my straights too. Based on my experience, I would not agree with your universal claim about straight razors. DE's can afford some people an equally good shave if not a better shave; they may offer some a closer one too. Sofaras your argument goes concerning why us straight razor shavers spend so much money, I would first say, that I for one did not take up straight razor shaving because i wanted a better or closer shave; I did so because I wanted not only to be more mindful but also to learn to do what my forefathers did. Furthermore, I've spent loads of money on all the stuff that goes along with maintaining my straight razors simply because that's half the fun of this hobby.
Hal
I had the opportunity to use the Shapton 30K on some knives, and found it no better than some of the other top polish stones (Kitayama 8K and Naniwa 10K). Mind you, I haven't tried it on a straight, where the difference may be more noticeable.
I think that a Feather AC blade is an unrealistic goal to set for straight razor sharpening.
I never really saw B&B as 'mostly DE', but more equally devoted to both straights and DEs; my general impression is that the DEs have about a 60:40 ratio to straights here, once you factor out the 'temporary DEs' of n00bs doing DEs before moving on to straights.
Beyond the previous comments, let me suggest that you try a Feather AC, to get the 'str8 experience' with Feather sharpness.
The biggest debate, IMHO, is whether it should be "YMMV" or "TEHO" (to each his own.) I've used straights, and the Feather AC, but never a DE, and don't see that changing. (But who knows ... after I exhaust all the other ADs ... ) There's definitely an added variable in str8s of stropping and honing that makes results more variable depening on the individual, which some of you find intriguing and some find annoying.
But let me say that for me, I love the str8, and it shaves me gr8. When I'm short on time, one pass with the AC is fine.
