One stone Hard Ark 'Progression'

[cotedupy]

i.e. using a Black or Translucent Arkansas from bevel set through to finish...

I assume this'll work just fine tbh; if you kick up an atoma slurry on a trans ark it's a seriously fast stone, and it'll get progressively finer as you work and dilute the slurry, while simultaneously burnishing the surface, until finishing clean, or even with oil... et voila! Simple.

Anyone done it? Success? Thoughts?

I'm gonna give a go later anyway. Probably use the HB6 below, rather than the HB8.

 

[Legion]

That poor Atoma.

 

[Sando]

Can’t help with insights but I’m interested in your results.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I'm very curious to hear how this goes. I have some conjectures but not based on personal experience.

 

[David]

Ian used to do this back in the day, but he didn’t use slurry, he just leaned on it like a man. He had some videos up on his channel I’ll see if I can find them. @SliceOfLife

 

[cotedupy]

Right, well this didn't surprise me in one way, but did slightly in another...

TBH I knew full well that the stone would be able to do it. I've had lots of trans arks, used them on all sorts of steels, I know how they work, I know how to make them fast, and I know how to make them slow.

The thing that surprised me was how well I managed, and how easy it was. I'm not really a counting-laps-sharpie-and-a-loupe kinda person, I just do the thing I know and if it doesn't work I don't really have a Plan B. Fortunately it did work here; this is definitely the fastest I've honed a razor to this level, I had to take a small chip out, and including stropping plus taking pics - it took a little over 10 mins.

---

Atoma slurry.

Don't let anyone tell you these things are slow. Bevel set is comparable to doing it on a 1 or 2k synth.

Ok, this surprised me too: as soon as I started in-hand honing the slurry went brown. Even browner than this picture suggests. Answers on a postcard...

Anyhow, I diluted it down a few times and finished clean, I didn't go to oil in the end, this was all on water. Nice hairline edge all the way along.

Strop, and...

Knock me down with a feather! Immaculate, silent HHT5 all the way down. I haven't used it yet, but I've never had a razor with an edge like this that wasn't an excellent shave.

---

So there you go. One stone hard ark progression, it is laughably simple.

 

[ables]

Right, well this didn't surprise me on one way, but did slightly in another...

TBH I knew full well that the stone would be able to do it. I've had lots of trans arks, used them on all sorts of steels, I know how they work, I know how to make them fast, and I know how to make them slow.

The thing that surprised me was how well I managed, and how easy it was. I'm not really a counting-laps-sharpie-and-a-loupe kinda person, I just do the thing I know and if it doesn't work I don't really have a Plan B. Fortunately it did work here; this is definitely the fastest I've honed a razor to this level, I had to take a small chip out, and including stropping plus taking pics, it took a little over 10 mins.

---

Atoma slurry.

View attachment 1588236


Don't let anyone tell you these things are slow. Bevel set is comparable to doing it on a 1 or 2k synth.

View attachment 1588235


Ok, this surprised me too: as soon as I started in-hand honing and diluting, the slurry went brown. Even browner than this picture suggests. Answers on a postcard...

View attachment 1588234


Anyhow, I diluted it down a few times and finished clean, I didn't go to oil in the end, this was all on water. Nice hairline edge all the way along.

View attachment 1588231


Strop, and...

Knock me down with a feather! Immaculate, silent HHT5 all the way down. I haven't used with it yet, but I've never had a razor with an edge like this that wasn't an excellent shave.

View attachment 1588232


---

So there you go. One stone hard ark progression, it's laughably simple.

Great work! Im glad to see that awesome stone getting some love. I have done Washita or soft to Hard Ark multiple times but never only a Hard ark. Makes sense tho, your fresh diamond plate lapping makes the crystal surface like a wicked file. The hht off a pure arkansas edged razor can't be beat, so sharp.

 

[captaincaed]

You cowboy. Love it.

 

[Legion]

Cool. I'm guessing the brown colour was caused by old oil in the surface of the stone getting mixed into the slurry.

 

[Steve56]

I assume this'll work just fine tbh; if you kick up an atoma slurry on a trans ark it's a seriously fast stone,

Are you sure that those slurries are from the Ark? Or the Atoma plate?

 

[Legion]

Have you tried raising slurry with another translucent stone? I imagine it wouldn’t be the easiest, but I have a couple of trans pocket stones I could use as slurry stones, rather than wear out a diamond plate.

 

[2bit_collie]

Wow!
I have 3 razors set aside for honing right now, definitely going to try this on one of them. I have a big old butterscotch trans that would be just the thing to use.

 

[2bit_collie]

My other thought is that the guy selling the jasper whetstones has a few videos on YouTube essentially doing the same thing. Start with a slurry raised by a diamond plate, dilute it down, and finish on clean water. I remember being rather shocked by the effort he put in to raise the slurry - definitely a lot more effort than I put into lapping my King 800!

 

[ErieSurfer]

Right, well this didn't surprise me in one way, but did slightly in another...

TBH I knew full well that the stone would be able to do it. I've had lots of trans arks, used them on all sorts of steels, I know how they work, I know how to make them fast, and I know how to make them slow.

The thing that surprised me was how well I managed, and how easy it was. I'm not really a counting-laps-sharpie-and-a-loupe kinda person, I just do the thing I know and if it doesn't work I don't really have a Plan B. Fortunately it did work here; this is definitely the fastest I've honed a razor to this level, I had to take a small chip out, and including stropping plus taking pics - it took a little over 10 mins.

---

Atoma slurry.

View attachment 1588236


Don't let anyone tell you these things are slow. Bevel set is comparable to doing it on a 1 or 2k synth.

View attachment 1588235


Ok, this surprised me too: as soon as I started in-hand honing the slurry went brown. Even browner than this picture suggests. Answers on a postcard...

View attachment 1588234


Anyhow, I diluted it down a few times and finished clean, I didn't go to oil in the end, this was all on water. Nice hairline edge all the way along.

View attachment 1588231


Strop, and...

Knock me down with a feather! Immaculate, silent HHT5 all the way down. I haven't used it yet, but I've never had a razor with an edge like this that wasn't an excellent shave.

View attachment 1588232


---

So there you go. One stone hard ark progression, it is laughably simple.

No pun intended, but I am keen to learn how that shave goes!

 

[cotedupy]

That poor Atoma.

Are you sure that those slurries are from the Ark? Or the Atoma plate?

I remember being rather shocked by the effort he put in to raise the slurry - definitely a lot more effort than I put into lapping my King 800!

Haha! Yes, for anyone who might not have tried slurry a hard ark on an atoma before, my advice is - don't. Translucent Arks slay diamond plates.

However a completely 'dead' atoma sheet will actually continue to be useful for slurrying stones pretty much indefinitely. The flattening days of the one I used are long since behind it, I just keep the sheets for stuff like this.

Have you tried raising slurry with another translucent stone?

I haven't. In my mind it wouldn't work particularly well, though I have heard of people doing it, and apparently it does work alright. What it probably would do at the same time though is burnish the surface of both stones, so you wouldn't get the other effect I was trying to go for of working from a roughed surface to begin with, and gradually burnishing it as you go along. Like an automatic progression.

he just leaned on it like a man.

That razor has a fairly chunky 1/4 hollow grind, so yeah - it did allow me to use a little more pressure than normal for a lot of the process. You'd have to go a bit slower on thinner grinds I imagine.

I'm guessing the brown colour was caused by old oil in the surface of the stone getting mixed into the slurry.

That was the only thing I could think of, and that ark does have a bit more porosity than normal (see below). I've never noticed it on Washitas and stuff, but then I guess I don't really use them in the same way.

No pun intended, but I am keen to learn how that shave goes!

Will report back later. My guess is that it's going to be very sharp and slightly aggressive. And that it might polish and mellow a bit with further time on stones.

It really surprised me how little time it took; I wasn't expecting that HHT at all, I was more just checking to see where I was at, and thought I'd probably need to go back and repeat the middle and end stages again.

 

[cotedupy]

Great work! Im glad to see that awesome stone getting some love. I have done Washita or soft to Hard Ark multiple times but never only a Hard ark. Makes sense tho, your fresh diamond plate lapping makes the crystal surface like a wicked file. The hht off a pure arkansas edged razor can't be beat, so sharp.

Jeez A, you weren't meant to tell people it was a magic hard ark! It's not so impressive if they know I've been using the Platonic Ideal of a perfect novaculite whetstone.

Guess I better come clean now eh...

---

The reason I used the 6" rather than the 8" in the original pic is that it's a little bit special. The stone used to belong to Able and I got it in a swap, because he told me it was slightly unusual. It's quite noticeably less translucent than most old Norton Hards, with some properly visible, fine pore structure, despite having the SG of a typical trans ark. And it makes it just a teensy bit faster than most examples, while still finishing easily high enough for super-keen razor edges. Like a translucent ark with a tiny bit of Washita thrown in.

I wasn't cheating per se; I'm certain you could do this with a more 'normal' stone, it just might take a little bit longer, especially I think in the middle sections of the progression.

 

[cotedupy]

No pun intended, but I am keen to learn how that shave goes!

So this was kinda how I expected; very keen, but slightly aggressive. It reminded me a bit of the couple of diamond pasted edges I've tried.

It was 11pm last night and I was after 3 negronis and a load of beer and sherry, so wasn't really in the mood for taking my time. I'll probably go back later today an put it on the same stone to do more on the finishing stages, working a little more slowly and methodically.

To steal @Steve56's catch phrase: 'Sharp is easy'. For my tastes I'm hopefully now gonna make it a little smoother too.

 

[cotedupy]

I'm very curious to hear how this goes. I have some conjectures but not based on personal experience.

Out of interest - what were your thoughts / conjectures here Matt...?

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Out of interest - what were your thoughts / conjectures here Matt...?

Well, I've heard of guys sharpening chisels this way so I figured it could work. But I had 3 questions which you've answered quite well.
1. Could you set a bevel on it without having to lean on it too much?
2. Would dilutions give you enough range to get from bevel set to prefinish?
3. Assuming "yes" on the first two, would the edge end up harsh?

I'm not at all surprised that it came out quite sharp. I'm impressed that you got it down to "diamond paste" levels of aggressive that quickly.

 

[2bit_collie]

Well, I've heard of guys sharpening chisels this way so I figured it could work. But I had 3 questions which you've answered quite well.
1. Could you set a bevel on it without having to lean on it too much?
2. Would dilutions give you enough range to get from bevel set to prefinish?
3. Assuming "yes" on the first two, would the edge end up harsh?

I'm not at all surprised that it came out quite sharp. I'm impressed that you got it down to "diamond paste" levels of aggressive that quickly.

I was also expecting to hear that the Ark finish was sharp but a bit on the harsh side. I have a pretty thrashed CKTG 140 diamond plate that I can try this on later today. I was going to use a big old butterscotch translucent, but now also wondering about my SG=2.4 “hard Washita”.

It is interesting to me that people often comment on the harshness of diamond-pasted balsa finishes. In my limited experience diamond-pasted balsa is normally how I tame my Ark edges. But I think a lot of it comes down to the grit size in the paste that you use as well as how it is applied to the balsa, how much is applied and how you use the balsa (e.g. on a bench top vs hanging). Bottom line - there is no “foolproof” honing method - how you prep and use the whetstone/strop etc is always going to play a role.

It is only in the past month when I started using a coticule right before my true hard/black Ark that I have been able to get an edge that is as comfortable as I get from following the Ark with my pasted balsa progression.