first Gold Dollar 66 experiment - tell me everything

[javast]

I received eight gold dollars from Ali Express, and with feverish excitement, removed the first razor from it's mushy cardboard "coffin", and drew its oily corpus from the odiferous, vinyl protective pocket. As I turned the thick, chunky blade over in my hand, and observed it wide blade, and round, simple spine, I realized this was a different sort of razor experience from what Dovo - the manufacturer of my first razor - was selling. This was more like a raw razor "blank" - an unfinished block of razor shaped steel. It could be turned into many different razors in the right hands. But I don't have those skills, nor tools yet. Still, the possibility of using it was too tantalizing to wait.

I was knew what I had to do - try and make it shave-able, using what I had on hand. My limited supplies meant, I could take little to no regard for the well being of the razor itself and it's future lifetime, the propriety of the technique, nor the absolute keenness of the edge. It would be a minimalist, speed oriented job - just get the thing shave-able. The blades had taken over a month to reach me, but I would wait no longer.

I used the following progression:

1) Set bevel with broken in Sharpal #325 diamond plate

I did a lot of grinding here, made sure there was a nice burr on both sides, but I used a fair bit of pressure, taking zero regard for the amount of hone wear I produced. My logic was that a) I have 7 more of them at $4 each, and b) the spine is too thick anyway, so may as well thin it out some.

2) cleaned up #325 scratches with the equally well broken in #1200 diamond surface on flip side of the Sharpal.

This plate, btw, is a good value, useful knife sharpening tool. I can put a decent working edge on a kitchen full of neglected knives in less than 30 minutes. Pro-tip: you can even travel with it, so you are never left using a "butter knife dull" chef's knife in a low-rent airbnb.

3) La Grise Coticule "dilucot"

A really fanciful stretching of the term, since what it really amounted to, was working up a fairly thick, paste-like slurry (I have a small La Grise bout) on the stone, using a bunch of circles - maybe 100 each side, while trying to keep the gummy, swarf-filled mess from getting too sticky. I did about three cycles like this, with new slurry, in order to remove all the scratches from the diamond plate. I progressively used less pressure, but I never really tried to get really light with it.

Towards the end of the last round of thick slurry, I started diluting. It was still grey with swarf, so I did a final, fresh, milky thickness slurry, diluting to plain water over the course of about 50 strokes.

Washed everything and finished under running water, with little to no pressure - the blade stuck nicely.

Shaved. It wasn't a good shave, but it wasn't awful either. Mostly, my impression is that the spine is still too thick, since it requires you to hold the blade more than 30 degrees to cut the hair. It's a mild edge, but at this angle, stubble is bound to be left. ATG wasn't really possible.

The whole process took about 30 minutes, and here are the pictures. I'm interested in any feedback on the results: what it might say about the razor, my honing technique, and also anything that might be suggested - in the spirit of the minimalist nature of the experiment - to improve it.

 

[rbscebu]

I hone my GD66 SRs with a bit more care and using different honing media. The shaving results can be very pleasantly surprising.

I use Chinese 400/1k and 3k/8k for bevel-setting and initial refinement. From those two Chinese synthetic whetstones, I move on to lapping films and finish with a diamond pasted balsa strop progression.

A well honed 66 requires a very flat shave angle, particularly when not shaving WTG, and the lightest of touch on the skin.

Recently I bought two GD66 SRs, one to modify and the other as a spare. The modified 66 (pics after 30 June) is getting very close to being my best SR in both shaving quality and handling. I honed the spare 66 up and sent to @Lightcs1776 in the US. He should receive it within a few weeks.

 

[javast]

I hone my GD66 SRs with a bit more care and using different honing media. The shaving results can be very pleasantly surprising.

I use Chinese 400/1k and 3k/8k for bevel-setting and initial refinement. From those two Chinese synthetic whetstones, I move on to lapping films and finish with a diamond pasted balsa strop progression.

Recently I bought two GD66 SRs, one to modify and the other as a spare. The modified 66 (pics after 30 June) is getting very close to being my best SR in both shaving quality and handling. I honed the spare 66 up and sent to @Lightcs1776 in the US. He should receive it within a few weeks.

I'm interested in using films and balsa in a future experiment - they have not yet arrived. I have films, balsa, and diamond powder on order - all from ali express. We shall see where it leads.

But I'm curious about the spine - @rbscebu - did you find it necessary to do any specific thinning of the spine to get a nice edge? If so, how did you do it? Either way, what does the blade of one of your completed 66's look like? Since you have gotten good results, I would be interested in see a picture as a reference point.

 

[rbscebu]

Details of the GD66 I passed on to @Lightcs1776 can be found here:

GIVEAWAY! - PIF - Shave-ready SR + postage (worldwide)

Up for grabs is a new much sort-after rare and converted 2023 model OEM Gold Dollar 66 (not a knockoff) straight razor that has been honed to shave-ready. Being the current model, no heel/stabiliser correction is required. This razor has been finished on an Adaee #12000 Cnat with soluble oil...

www.badgerandblade.com

The as-recieved spine gave a bevel angle of 16.8° (no tape) which is within my generally preferred range of 16° to 18°. No spine thinning was needed. Both blades had no warping or other geometric problems. Even the stabilisers and shoulder presented no impediment to honing.

The only GD66 I now have on hand is my modified one. No pics released until after 30 June.

 

[javast]

No pics released until after 30 June.

Ah - the competition. Good luck, I look forward to seeing it!

 

[Herrenberg]

You asked for observations and a critique, so let's see.

I can see evidence that you have favored the toe side over the heel side in your honing. The width of the honed areas of the wear area on both sides, and the bevel on the logo side, tells that story.

It's hard to say a lot about the edge without a closer look, but I do see some chips. The largest one is just under the vertical stroke of the D in Dollar.

A diamond plate may be a nice way to quickly sharpen a drawerful of cheap stainless, but it's a bit of a blunt instrument for razor honing, even in the bevel setting stages. They tend to leave deep scratches, especially under pressure, that are hard to fully remove afterwards. I would conjecture that a close look at the edge would reveal a number of these scratches still present on the bevel, some of them ending in little chips out of the edge, that tend to reduce comfort. I do think I see a slightly ragged appearance to the edge, but I can't be sure at this unmagnified scale. At some point, you may want to consider adding a loupe to your arsenal, so you can see things like this, and/or a cheap USB microscope, so you can share pictures here. Plenty of recommendations on the forum for those.

Having to raise the angle to cut hair is a normal shaver reaction to an edge that is not sharp enough. I tend to agree that chunky spines are awkward, but there are plenty of people who like them, and they don't have anything to do with adjusting your angle to cut hair; that's entirely an issue with edge keenness.

 

[javast]

You asked for observations and a critique, so let's see.

I can see evidence that you have favored the toe side over the heel side in your honing. The width of the honed areas of the wear area on both sides, and the bevel on the logo side, tells that story.

This is something I noticed as well, and I am hoping to get some advice with it. This is not the first time I see this pattern. I see the toe-end of the worn area of the spine on the non-logo side is very wide. I'm right handed, so this side is on the stone when the edge leading stroke is going towards me. I feel like I favor the toe coming towards me, and the heel going away. I don't know if it's my grip, or what. I did this one honing in hand - so my left hand was holding the hone/plate, and not guiding the blade, or applying even pressure. I keep thinking that this toe side, coming towards me is not meeting the stone, and indeed, the bevel edge opposite this heavily worn area of the spine seems not to show a lot of wear or an especially wide bevel - in fact the widest bevel area is actually on the heel of the non-logo side. I'm stumped.

 

[javast]

It's like wherever on the blade feels like it is not contacting the stone, I try to drive it down, and what happens is that the spine wears, but the edge still doesn't. I end up with thin bevels across from heavy spine wear and vice versa.

 

[Herrenberg]

It's like wherever on the blade feels like it is not contacting the stone, I try to drive it down, and what happens is that the spine wears, but the edge still doesn't. I end up with thin bevels across from heavy spine wear and vice versa.

This happened to me a lot when I was new to honing. The funny thing is that I don't really know exactly how I got over it -- I just kept honing and honing, and got a feel for it, and then the bad things didn't happen any more.

Still, let me think about what might work -- seems like a missing piece is torqueing. The idea is that when you hone, you are very gently twisting the razor in such a way as to press the bevel against the stone. It's also common to see recommendations to new honers to use tape, putting Kapton tape or fake Kapton tape or electrical tape to cover the spine wear strip. The main reason for that recommendation is to allow you to set a bevel without being as critically dependent on a perfect alignment of bevel and wear strip, but it occurs to me that another reason might be to provide a visceral disincentive to honing just the spine. You have to be honing the bevel to feel any metal honing going on, and pressure on the spine just feels like you're grinding off the tape.

People commonly talk about how you need serious pressure to set a bevel on something like a Gold Dollar, and they are not wrong, but I found that I got really uncontrolled when I used serious pressure, so a better learning path for me turned out to be to work with gentle pressure, even if it took much longer, so that I could feel what was going on. Only once it was all trained into my hands could I start to make good use of firmer pressures when sorting out a misaligned razor.

 

[HoneThis]

Are Gold Dollars cheapest on AliExpress? I’d be interested in buying something like 8-12 of them but know basically nothing about them (other than reputation and use cases). I’m teaching a group of buddies (and some of their buddies) how to hone and it would be ideal to have everyone using one of those. Then, what ballpark are we talking for eight to a dozen of them?

 

[javast]

Are Gold Dollars cheapest on AliExpress? I’d be interested in buying something like 8-12 of them but know basically nothing about them (other than reputation and use cases). I’m teaching a group of buddies (and some of their buddies) how to hone and it would be ideal to have everyone using one of those. Then, what ballpark are we talking for eight to a dozen of them?

I bought mine here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100....order_list.order_list_main.10.1ba71802lrSq8q

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Have you been able to produce a shaving edge with the coticule with any other razors before?

Heel needs correction, you are honing on the tang and the curved part of the spine that curves towards the edge, keeping the heel half of the razor off the stone or not making full contact.

Likely the bevel is not fully set and not meeting fully. That is why you have excessive wear on the toe of the spine and bevel, it is the only part touching the stone fully. Adding more pressure is just grinding the toe at the bevel and pine.

You need to move the heel corner about 3/8th of an inch forward well away from the curve of the spine.

Also as said the edge is full of chips and the bevel deep diamond stria. Diamonds cut deep, 325 grit diamonds cut very deep. You will be spending a lot of time on a Coticule removing deep diamond stria. Get a King 1k $20 or a 1/6K combo stone $30 and remove ALL the deep stria, then try the coticule. Coticules are the most difficult stones to learn.

Look straight down on the edge with magnification, any shiny spots are where the bevels are not meeting, chips or a rolled edge.

 

[javast]

Have you been able to produce a shaving edge with the coticule with any other razors before?

yes

Heel needs correction, you are honing on the tang and the curved part of the spine that curves towards the edge, keeping the heel half of the razor off the stone or not making full contact.

This is consistently a problem for me. I angle the blade on the hone, so that the heel sticks out further into the stone, and the toe part of the blade trails the heel part when making an edge leading stroke. For some reason, the heel part never seems to make enough contact.

Likely the bevel is not fully set and not meeting fully. That is why you have excessive wear on the toe of the spine and bevel, it is the only part touching the stone fully. Adding more pressure is just grinding the toe at the bevel and pine.

You need to move the heel corner about 3/8th of an inch forward well away from the curve of the spine.

Does this mean just grind off/get rid of some of the heel part of the blade?

Also as said the edge is full of chips and the bevel deep diamond stria...

Yeah, I looked. Lotsa chips. I don't have my other stones with me now, which is why this started off as a "minimalist" experiment. Looks like I will need to wait until I have them to improve the situation.


Thanks a lot for the detailed response. I've read these kind of things before, but's very helpful to have the specific things I sem to be doing wrong pointed out.

 

[kayvee]

Does this mean just grind off/get rid of some of the heel part of the blade?

Check out this thread Heel Correction - Reprofiling started by @H Brad Boonshaft

 

[rbscebu]

Check out this thread Heel Correction - Reprofiling started by @H Brad Boonshaft

The heel correction is no long really required with more modern GD66s, unless you are really careless in your honing or you just don't like normal blades with stabilisers.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Yes, follow the instructions on the Heel Correction post. While you do not have a stabilizer, moving the heel corner well away from the tang and where the spine curves will assist you in keeping the razor flat on the stone.

The heel corner is also developing a sharp corner, correction will also eliminate that problem.

Likely, with Gold Dollars your razor may not be evenly ground, and may have a slight warp. The spine at the toe and over the heel may not be the same thickness. So randomly grinding the spine may not help.

Measure the thickness of the toe and heel at the spine with a set of Calipers. There are many inexpensive Calipers in the $10 range and good plastic sets that are great for razor use, I use the plastic Vernier over the Dial or Digital for razors, for quick measurements with razors. But I do have several sets of quality Dial and Digital for more accurate measurements.

Do a simple test, ink the spine and the bevel. Now do a single lap on your coticule with just water on both sides and see where the ink comes off.

This will tell you if the razor is sitting on the stone and if not, where the high spots are and if you have a warp.

How you repair that issue(s) depends on the problem.

Gold Dollars are a Kit Razor, they can be made to shave and there are tricks to getting them dialed in.

Many threads on Gold Dollar repair and honing, many need repair before they can be honed properly. They were all the rage about 10 years ago and many good threads posted with lots of info. Good reading.

 

[rbscebu]

....
The heel corner is also developing a sharp corner, correction will also eliminate that problem.
....

This unfortunately occurs with all SRs (not just GDs) that do not already have a pointy heel. It develops over time as they are honed. If it bothers a SR shaver, correction is needed.

 

[Slash McCoy]

As you can see, a GD66 can be a fairly good shaver, properly honed. I suggest you do the whole process all over again. Your diamond plates got it beat into shape, somewhat. It doesn't hurt a thing to reprofile the heel. You lose very little edge. You have raised a burr, no need for that again. Just hone with normal x strokes and moderate to light pressure until you have good contact out to the edge, and a consistent scratch pattern, with a decent bevel setting synthetic stone such as a Naniwa Superstone 1k grit. Or you might like the Shapton 1.5k. The Naniwa Chosera 1k is also popular, a bit faster of a stone but the Superstone leaves a bit nicer bevel face. I often use the Chosera and then the Naniwa to clean it up. From there I usually go to film, 9µ, 3µ, then 1µ, then the three stage pasted balsa progression. Don't worry about the balsa until you are getting good edges from the 12k or 1µ finish.

You need a single very bright point of light, for making good reflections that you can read as you roll and tip the blade. I most firmly suggest getting a Belomo 10x triplet loupe. There is nothing better for this. Unlike most other loupes even approaching its class, the focal length is long enough that your loupe stands off from the edge of the razor by a safe distance. The clarity is stunning compared to cheapos that have to include a LED light in them in order to see anything. Good field of view, enough magnification to see what you need to see.

You need to look at your edge and see what you got, if you want to make it better. The sharpie test will tell you a lot, at a glance. Study the reflections as you roll the blade in the light. And you should see zero reflection, zero ANYTHING, from the edge turned straight up at your optic or your naked eye.

Newbie Honing Compendium - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/newbie-honing-compendium.545370/

 

[javast]

As you can see, a GD66 can be a fairly good shaver, properly honed. I suggest you do the whole process all over again.

I did as you suggest. I don't have any of those nice stones that you referred to, but I managed to refine the edge quite a bit anyway using some cheap chinese stones I do have, and my norton 4/8k, finishing on my glassy La Grise coticule. The resulting edge shaves a bit better than my Dovo. I also started my second GD66, and managed to get to the same place in half the time, with 20% of the hone wear nonsense by concentrating on @Herrenberg advice of torquing, but not pushing on the spine at all.

Now I see why people recommend against using the diamond plates. The scratches are very uneven with some being extremely deep. Makes for extra work as well as wear.

I have now managed to hone three separate razors to a degree I feel good shaving with, however, I suspect that I should be able to do better. I have achieved a HHT3/4 in some spots before, but for many of the edges I have shaved with, they barely pass HHT2 - yet I find them comfortable, and close enough.

Its a conundrum for me: the test doesn't pass, yet the shave is ok. I am left feeling like I might be missing out on something.

 

[JPO]

I did as you suggest. I don't have any of those nice stones that you referred to, but I managed to refine the edge quite a bit anyway using some cheap chinese stones I do have, and my norton 4/8k, finishing on my glassy La Grise coticule. The resulting edge shaves a bit better than my Dovo. I also started my second GD66, and managed to get to the same place in half the time, with 20% of the hone wear nonsense by concentrating on @Herrenberg advice of torquing, but not pushing on the spine at all.

Now I see why people recommend against using the diamond plates. The scratches are very uneven with some being extremely deep. Makes for extra work as well as wear.

I have now managed to hone three separate razors to a degree I feel good shaving with, however, I suspect that I should be able to do better. I have achieved a HHT3/4 in some spots before, but for many of the edges I have shaved with, they barely pass HHT2 - yet I find them comfortable, and close enough.

Its a conundrum for me: the test doesn't pass, yet the shave is ok. I am left feeling like I might be missing out on something.

If you have an artist club style razor you should be able to at least come quite close in cutting efficiency.