Had to post this a website is selling ocean jasper for $300-554 .00 a pound! You could make some super priced hones using their outrageous prices for the little pieces of rough stone they were selling. I was thinking we should list the specific weight and hardness for each hone for comparables. If you get me pictures and descriptions I will look them up. It should be easy won't be exact since we aren't testing the specific piece but close. Even my knapping books list some of this. I am thinking could develop some data to eventually use a guide along with other details.
Making a hone
- Thread starter xMackx
- Start date
Some good reading here guys! I look forward to the shave tests!
Very well, it will go out Friday or Saturday as long as the post office is open.
And yeah, there's a buttload of variation in the different varieties of silicon dioxide alone, not to mention all the other types of materials out there. I'm trying to get my hands on some samples of black petrified wood to compare. If it works as well, it is well worth having and I'd like to get some more of that out to you guys. Fortunately, since I am close to the source, there isn't much expense, just some expertise in selecting appropriately. No just any rock will do. Some would murder a razor.
@Hammertime: I got some remarkably good shaving edges out of that stone, but I had to do it "just so". Wish I could remember what "just so" is. I'm pretty sure you will want to go feather light for the finish but the strokes for the best result are gone out of my head. I'm thinking it needed 100-200 laps for that stage. She is very slow. I've the brother to that one and will try it this evening to see how bad my memory really is.
- Thread starter
- #204
I have done an enormous amount of reading lately where ever I can find it on the different best natural whetstones. What i have found that is interesting and has narrowed down my expectations of what to look for. All of the best natural whetstones from the Belgian Coticule/Arkansas/Chinese/Norse/Japanese/Finnish stones are all related types of novaculite also known as whet slate. All of which were sedimentary rock formations accumulated from fine clay, microcrystalline quartz and other minerals slowly built up over time under water. The different types of stone cut differently based on the formation of their microcrystalline structure, density, and mineral content. All of which are based on the age of the rock formation and the pressures exerted over time. That a quality specimen for whetstone making needs to have the right density to erode slightly during use to constantly expose new microcrystalline quarts structures to cut consistently. These formations of different structures are what give every stone a unique cutting ability.
The problem being that what we are talking about a lot of great resources have been lost. With a little creative thinking you can rediscover pieces of it. If you search woodworking and then get Into sharpening there are a few odd piece about old hones even references to petrified wood, etc. some woodworkers use the same hones and desire the same hone qualityies we do to put superior edges on their chisels. Super fine hones were a prized possession of machinist/ tool and die
Makers back in the day. In college I remember our instructor having a few natural hones and very few of us earned the right to test them out. They quickly became my favorit and would probably have been mine except I changed majors. I quickly fell out of favor. But I saw the high salaries disappearing as quickly as the sources we are talking about vanished. Something I have played around in more recent years is knapping and the hones we are discussing and the Belgian also fall under the classification as Chert. I am just trying to think of different ways to bring ideas, useful resources and information for everyone to be able to hopefully find a few more pieces of the puzzle. There is also a ton of geological resources with some very descriptive and detailed maps about various formations and specific proprties of each formation in the U.S. and Europe. Some very old and also more current resources. http://books.google.com/books?id=FG...ook_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAw
Makers back in the day. In college I remember our instructor having a few natural hones and very few of us earned the right to test them out. They quickly became my favorit and would probably have been mine except I changed majors. I quickly fell out of favor. But I saw the high salaries disappearing as quickly as the sources we are talking about vanished. Something I have played around in more recent years is knapping and the hones we are discussing and the Belgian also fall under the classification as Chert. I am just trying to think of different ways to bring ideas, useful resources and information for everyone to be able to hopefully find a few more pieces of the puzzle. There is also a ton of geological resources with some very descriptive and detailed maps about various formations and specific proprties of each formation in the U.S. and Europe. Some very old and also more current resources. http://books.google.com/books?id=FG...ook_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAw
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- Thread starter
- #206
Its not that the sources have vanished. There are great whetstone candidates everywhere, its just cheaper to to buy abrasives and adhesives than it is to cut a mountain into small blocks. Here's a list of where you can find them on a large scale if any of them are near you. Oh and if you like to read if you're interested I have an interesting history about a town close by me that thrived on the natural whetstone industry.
OTHER PLACES
This guide to the locations of potential whetstone sources is adapted from a list published in the Annual Report of the Geological Survey of Arkansas for 1890, volume 3, Whetstones and Novaculites of Arkansas, by L.S. Griswold. I have not attempted to correct any of the misspellings of the locations given here for fear of. doing more harm than good. Your state geology department should have more detailed records for your own area. Good hunting!
Alabama. Sandstone is quarried near Eldridge, in Walker County.
Arkansas. "A quarry of this mineral [novaculite], three miles above the Hot Springs of Washitaw, has often been noticed by travelers for its extent and excellency of its quality" (Henry R. Schoolcraft, 1819). Lower Silurian novaculite is found in the following counties: Garland, Hot Spring, Howard, Montgommy, Pike, Polk, Pulaski', and Saline.
Dakota. Sandstone is found near Buffalo Gap in Custer County and schist near Tigerville in Pennington County.
Georgia. There is novaculite in Lincoln County on a low hill two miles from the Lincolnton courthouse, projecting nearly vertically from the ground over an area of four or five acres. It is strawcolored to greenish white. It is also found near Graves Mountain. A nother whetstone grit is found in McDuffie, Heard, Troup, Oglethorpe, and Meriweather counties.
Indiana. Hindostan quarries were opened about 1840. Two stones are quarried, one a shoemaker's sandstone and the other a very finegrained, compact sandstone, used chiefly for whetstones by carpenters, mechanics, and others. These are found in Orange County, French Licks 9, and Orangeville 2.
Maine. Novaculite is found in abundance near the forks of the Kennebec, eighty or ninety miles from Hallowell Silurian novaculite is found near Phillips and Temple in Franklin County. There is Huronian serpentine novaculite on Little Deer Island and Western Island in Hancock County. Sandstone may be found at Nutter's Head in Washington County and Cambrian novaculite at York in York County.
Maryland Cambrian novaculite is found on the Patuxent River, near the road to Washington, Anne Arundle or Prince George counties.
Massachusetts. The vicinity of Boston furnishes compact feldspar analogous to the Turkey stone. This lower Silurian novaculite slate of Middlesex County is found near Cambridge, Charlestown, Concord, and Malden. In Bellingham, 22,800 mica schist whetstones were manufactured in 1838. In Essex County, Silurian novaculite is found near Nahant. Lower Silurian mica schist was worked commercially prior to 1841 at Enfield, Norwich, and Cummington in Hampshire County. Other novaculite slates are found in Norfolk County at Dedham, Milton, and Quincy and in Suffolk County at Brighton, Brookline, and Dorchester.
Michigan. Huronian novaculite slate is found at Carp River and Teal Lake in Ontonagon County and at L'Anse in Baraga County. Sandstone is found in many places in Huron County.
Mississippi. There is good sandstone on Big Bear Creek in Tishamingo County.
Missouri. Sandstone is found in many places in Randolph and Barton counties, at Pierce City in Lawrence County, and at O'Bannon's quarry in Madison County.
New Hampshire. A fine-grained stone from Lisbon in Grafton County was known as the "chocolate." Those from Orford came from the shore of Indian Pond and were sold under the "Indian Pond" brand name. Other Grafton County stones are found at Littleton, Haverill, and Piermont. A Silurian novaculite is found at Tamworth in Carroll County,
New York. There is Silurian and Cambrian novaculite slate in Columbia County at Clermont, Germantown, Greenport, Livingstone, Rogers Island, Stockport, and Stuyvesant. There is sandstone at Labrador Lake in Cortland County and Beaver Kill River and Monticello in Delaware County. Silurian whetslates are found in Rensselaer County.
North Carolina. The stones from McPherson's quarry in Chatham County, five miles west of Woodin's ferry on the Haw River, have a finer and softer grit than McCauley's. They are bluish and yellowish white. On the Salisbury Road in Randolph County, near Deep River, is a bed of a similar kind, highly valued by the inhabitants. Other fine stones are found at Barbee's mill, two miles south of Chapel Hill, on the Flat River in the eastern part of Person County to the narrows of the Neuse, and near Wadesboro in Anson County.
Ohio. Sandstones are found at Berea in Cuyahoga County, Amherst in Lorain County, Hocking River in Hocking County, Manchester in Summit County, and Farmington and Mesopotamia in Trumbull County.
Pennsylvania. Lower Silurian sandstone is found in Berks County at Oley. Cambrian micaceous sandstone is in Delaware County at Avondale, Darby Creek, Marple, Township 2, Springfield, and east of Swarthmore. Cambrian mica schist is in Chester County at Hayes's quarry on the Newlin Township line and in the m iddle of th e co u n ty.
Rhode Island. The Geology of Rhode Island in 1840 reported production in Smithfield of six to eight thousand dozens of whetstones. Mica schist is found one-half mile northeast of Woonsocket village, extending a mile southwest.
South Carolina. Huronian novaculite is found in Abbeville a nd Edgefield counties and on Turkey Creek in Chester County.
Tennessee. There is sandstone near Knoxville and on the French Broad River a mile above Dandridge in Jefferson County.
Vermont. There are oilstone quarries on an island in Lake Memphremagog. The island is about seven miles west of Stanstead Village. One quarry is now entirely under water and the other partly so. These were large quarries with stones of good repute. There is Cambrian novaculite slate at Thetford in Orange County and at Guilford and Marlborough in Windham County. Huronian mica schist is in Windsor County at Ludlow, Plymouth, and Stock-bridge. Cambrian mica schist is found in Newport, Trasb u, and Brownington. There is Huronian talcose schist at Northfield in Washington County and mica schist at Berkshire and Fairfield in Franklin County.
http://www.geo.msu.edu/geogmich/Grindstones.htm (history of Grindstone city)
OTHER PLACES
This guide to the locations of potential whetstone sources is adapted from a list published in the Annual Report of the Geological Survey of Arkansas for 1890, volume 3, Whetstones and Novaculites of Arkansas, by L.S. Griswold. I have not attempted to correct any of the misspellings of the locations given here for fear of. doing more harm than good. Your state geology department should have more detailed records for your own area. Good hunting!
Alabama. Sandstone is quarried near Eldridge, in Walker County.
Arkansas. "A quarry of this mineral [novaculite], three miles above the Hot Springs of Washitaw, has often been noticed by travelers for its extent and excellency of its quality" (Henry R. Schoolcraft, 1819). Lower Silurian novaculite is found in the following counties: Garland, Hot Spring, Howard, Montgommy, Pike, Polk, Pulaski', and Saline.
Dakota. Sandstone is found near Buffalo Gap in Custer County and schist near Tigerville in Pennington County.
Georgia. There is novaculite in Lincoln County on a low hill two miles from the Lincolnton courthouse, projecting nearly vertically from the ground over an area of four or five acres. It is strawcolored to greenish white. It is also found near Graves Mountain. A nother whetstone grit is found in McDuffie, Heard, Troup, Oglethorpe, and Meriweather counties.
Indiana. Hindostan quarries were opened about 1840. Two stones are quarried, one a shoemaker's sandstone and the other a very finegrained, compact sandstone, used chiefly for whetstones by carpenters, mechanics, and others. These are found in Orange County, French Licks 9, and Orangeville 2.
Maine. Novaculite is found in abundance near the forks of the Kennebec, eighty or ninety miles from Hallowell Silurian novaculite is found near Phillips and Temple in Franklin County. There is Huronian serpentine novaculite on Little Deer Island and Western Island in Hancock County. Sandstone may be found at Nutter's Head in Washington County and Cambrian novaculite at York in York County.
Maryland Cambrian novaculite is found on the Patuxent River, near the road to Washington, Anne Arundle or Prince George counties.
Massachusetts. The vicinity of Boston furnishes compact feldspar analogous to the Turkey stone. This lower Silurian novaculite slate of Middlesex County is found near Cambridge, Charlestown, Concord, and Malden. In Bellingham, 22,800 mica schist whetstones were manufactured in 1838. In Essex County, Silurian novaculite is found near Nahant. Lower Silurian mica schist was worked commercially prior to 1841 at Enfield, Norwich, and Cummington in Hampshire County. Other novaculite slates are found in Norfolk County at Dedham, Milton, and Quincy and in Suffolk County at Brighton, Brookline, and Dorchester.
Michigan. Huronian novaculite slate is found at Carp River and Teal Lake in Ontonagon County and at L'Anse in Baraga County. Sandstone is found in many places in Huron County.
Mississippi. There is good sandstone on Big Bear Creek in Tishamingo County.
Missouri. Sandstone is found in many places in Randolph and Barton counties, at Pierce City in Lawrence County, and at O'Bannon's quarry in Madison County.
New Hampshire. A fine-grained stone from Lisbon in Grafton County was known as the "chocolate." Those from Orford came from the shore of Indian Pond and were sold under the "Indian Pond" brand name. Other Grafton County stones are found at Littleton, Haverill, and Piermont. A Silurian novaculite is found at Tamworth in Carroll County,
New York. There is Silurian and Cambrian novaculite slate in Columbia County at Clermont, Germantown, Greenport, Livingstone, Rogers Island, Stockport, and Stuyvesant. There is sandstone at Labrador Lake in Cortland County and Beaver Kill River and Monticello in Delaware County. Silurian whetslates are found in Rensselaer County.
North Carolina. The stones from McPherson's quarry in Chatham County, five miles west of Woodin's ferry on the Haw River, have a finer and softer grit than McCauley's. They are bluish and yellowish white. On the Salisbury Road in Randolph County, near Deep River, is a bed of a similar kind, highly valued by the inhabitants. Other fine stones are found at Barbee's mill, two miles south of Chapel Hill, on the Flat River in the eastern part of Person County to the narrows of the Neuse, and near Wadesboro in Anson County.
Ohio. Sandstones are found at Berea in Cuyahoga County, Amherst in Lorain County, Hocking River in Hocking County, Manchester in Summit County, and Farmington and Mesopotamia in Trumbull County.
Pennsylvania. Lower Silurian sandstone is found in Berks County at Oley. Cambrian micaceous sandstone is in Delaware County at Avondale, Darby Creek, Marple, Township 2, Springfield, and east of Swarthmore. Cambrian mica schist is in Chester County at Hayes's quarry on the Newlin Township line and in the m iddle of th e co u n ty.
Rhode Island. The Geology of Rhode Island in 1840 reported production in Smithfield of six to eight thousand dozens of whetstones. Mica schist is found one-half mile northeast of Woonsocket village, extending a mile southwest.
South Carolina. Huronian novaculite is found in Abbeville a nd Edgefield counties and on Turkey Creek in Chester County.
Tennessee. There is sandstone near Knoxville and on the French Broad River a mile above Dandridge in Jefferson County.
Vermont. There are oilstone quarries on an island in Lake Memphremagog. The island is about seven miles west of Stanstead Village. One quarry is now entirely under water and the other partly so. These were large quarries with stones of good repute. There is Cambrian novaculite slate at Thetford in Orange County and at Guilford and Marlborough in Windham County. Huronian mica schist is in Windsor County at Ludlow, Plymouth, and Stock-bridge. Cambrian mica schist is found in Newport, Trasb u, and Brownington. There is Huronian talcose schist at Northfield in Washington County and mica schist at Berkshire and Fairfield in Franklin County.
http://www.geo.msu.edu/geogmich/Grindstones.htm (history of Grindstone city)
florida has nothing....
oh well... the price of sunny skies and year round summer....
sighhh....
oh well... the price of sunny skies and year round summer....
sighhh....
Most of the rocks that are mentioned (Coticules, Jnats, Cnats, etc.) are not novaculites and are actually not dominantly siliceous. The term 'whet slate' also seems to be an archaic description or a misnomer - or at least a colloquialism of sorts - because novaculite is not a slate, neither in composition, nor in origin. There are also many other factors that would govern why a rock might cut: the type of mineral(s) present, degree of and nature of cementation, particle size distribution, degree of crystallinity, foliation...many, many things. Rock age may or may not have anything to do with the mineralogy and honing characteristics. Also, in general, sandstones and possibly even many metasandstones don't strike me as being very good candidates for whetstones.
Just some thoughts and opinions...
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With enough effort, the lizard stone removed all the visible scratches that the slate had left behind from the very edge of the razor. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get the razor to do better than HHT1+. As I said before, I will try re-breaking-in the stone by being very gentle like Jeff recommended, but that didn't happen for this morning. The stropping was a little disconcerting. Although nothing bad happened to my strop, there was a much louder than normal noise while using it. This is normal (to a much lesser extent) when using a freshly honed razor (no pastes) for the first 10 or so passes, but I took it out to 40 passes and it was still loud. I used some neetsfoot oil on the strop and gave it another 20 this morning, pre-shave. This seemed to take the noise level down a bit, but still well above normal levels. I decided that things were as good as they would get for the shave, so I whipped some lather and had a go.
SHAVE RESULTS: LIZARD STONE
I shaved with my 6/8 H.J. Herskovitz razor this morning. For whatever reason, the edge was not refined enough to effectively shave WTG. I did a whole pass, but it felt as though every single wisker was being pulled. The wiskers were being cut first pass, but not comfortably. I would have to say that although the razor was sharper than off the slate (slate is about 6K) it was not near the sharpness nor smoothness of the DMT8EE I once had (which is an 8K stone). Since I was never able to get the 8EE to do a good ATG stroke, I didn't really want to try with this razor (but of course, in the name of science, I did!). The results of the WTG pass were really quite bad, especially under the jawline and on the neck where my beard is thicker, so I decided to attempt an ATG pass on this part of my face only. Much to my surprise, the ATG went much more smoothly than the WTG pass had! Not sure why that would be, but the same is true with my little barber's hone. The result is that under my jawline and on my neck is much closer than anywhere else, and if I had continued, I could have gotten the same results everywhere else on my face. By this definition, I would say that the stone as-is DOES shave, just not very comfortably. I am going to rate the edge as being somewhere around 7K American. I was really hoping to have it shave closer to a 9K edge, and hope that with learning it might go upward of 10 or 11K, but I think that with this experience, I will be hoping for an 8 or 9K finish. Actually, 8 or 9K wouldn't be so bad, as I can shave just fine off that edge.
IT IS POSSIBLE that although the edge LOOKS fine (to the naked eye), it actually needs more work. It is possible that I never completely erased the slate-edge, and some of the problems I am seeing are related to that (though I don't think this is the problem).
Here's to hoping that with some gentle work on the next few hundred passes, I can bring the edge up to the point where I will be getting very good shaves off the stone!
SHAVE RESULTS: LIZARD STONE
I shaved with my 6/8 H.J. Herskovitz razor this morning. For whatever reason, the edge was not refined enough to effectively shave WTG. I did a whole pass, but it felt as though every single wisker was being pulled. The wiskers were being cut first pass, but not comfortably. I would have to say that although the razor was sharper than off the slate (slate is about 6K) it was not near the sharpness nor smoothness of the DMT8EE I once had (which is an 8K stone). Since I was never able to get the 8EE to do a good ATG stroke, I didn't really want to try with this razor (but of course, in the name of science, I did!). The results of the WTG pass were really quite bad, especially under the jawline and on the neck where my beard is thicker, so I decided to attempt an ATG pass on this part of my face only. Much to my surprise, the ATG went much more smoothly than the WTG pass had! Not sure why that would be, but the same is true with my little barber's hone. The result is that under my jawline and on my neck is much closer than anywhere else, and if I had continued, I could have gotten the same results everywhere else on my face. By this definition, I would say that the stone as-is DOES shave, just not very comfortably. I am going to rate the edge as being somewhere around 7K American. I was really hoping to have it shave closer to a 9K edge, and hope that with learning it might go upward of 10 or 11K, but I think that with this experience, I will be hoping for an 8 or 9K finish. Actually, 8 or 9K wouldn't be so bad, as I can shave just fine off that edge.
IT IS POSSIBLE that although the edge LOOKS fine (to the naked eye), it actually needs more work. It is possible that I never completely erased the slate-edge, and some of the problems I am seeing are related to that (though I don't think this is the problem).
Here's to hoping that with some gentle work on the next few hundred passes, I can bring the edge up to the point where I will be getting very good shaves off the stone!
R
Rsq
I live in cambridge. I would really like to go hunting for some of these, but I have no idea how to translate silurian novaculite or compact feldspar into something to look for. Can you tell me what I'm looking for and how to id it? Is 22800 mica schist a 22800 grit stone? What should I look for, and if I find it, how can I expect it to behave?
Massachusetts. The vicinity of Boston furnishes compact feldspar analogous to the Turkey stone. This lower Silurian novaculite slate of Middlesex County is found near Cambridge, Charlestown, Concord, and Malden. In Bellingham, 22,800 mica schist whetstones were manufactured in 1838. In Essex County, Silurian novaculite is found near Nahant. Lower Silurian mica schist was worked commercially prior to 1841 at Enfield, Norwich, and Cummington in Hampshire County. Other novaculite slates are found in Norfolk County at Dedham, Milton, and Quincy and in Suffolk County at Brighton, Brookline, and Dorchester.
Massachusetts. The vicinity of Boston furnishes compact feldspar analogous to the Turkey stone. This lower Silurian novaculite slate of Middlesex County is found near Cambridge, Charlestown, Concord, and Malden. In Bellingham, 22,800 mica schist whetstones were manufactured in 1838. In Essex County, Silurian novaculite is found near Nahant. Lower Silurian mica schist was worked commercially prior to 1841 at Enfield, Norwich, and Cummington in Hampshire County. Other novaculite slates are found in Norfolk County at Dedham, Milton, and Quincy and in Suffolk County at Brighton, Brookline, and Dorchester.
I remember hiking to a quarry as part of the Emerald Necklace string of Metroparks, in the Cleveland area of Ohio, growing up...but I don't remember where it was exactly. (I'll try to remember to ask my parents when I see them tomorrow.) The operation was quite impressive, and some tools were left in place, embedded in the rock like a nail or epic proportions.
The quarry produced grindstones and grist stones, and a few large pieces remained. It was a pretty big operation.
Phil
The quarry produced grindstones and grist stones, and a few large pieces remained. It was a pretty big operation.
Phil
- Thread starter
- #212
Yeah actually one of my favorite places to hike up in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan here I remembered seeing stone everywhere that I thought would make great whetstones. I just recently found that high quality navaculite whetstones have been quarried there where an ancient river bed used to be. That seems to be a common occurrence for high grit or fine grit (naturals don't have a grit number). The same thing is said for the Cnats, being fine silt collected over time. The thing that sucks is that this place is about an 8 hour drive away, but it is so beautiful. It's the only place where mountains are in Michigan.
Hmmm... Doesn't sound like it went quite right or you have an even tougher beard than I do! In which case you might consider a chainsaw for your shaving needs.
For what it is worth, I suspect you may have been using a higher level of pressure than I might or there just weren't enough laps. That was a pretty slow stone to start with and it's possible you just got a partial polish too. I had been using it after a stone that probably approaches 8k. It still seemed to take a bit after until it was done. When I speak of not much pressure, I'm talking about not much more pressure than I would shave with. For whatever reason, whether using a lapping film or stone when finishing, I get better results that way. Tomorrow I will get "Ugly Betty" out, cut a new bevel and see just how long it takes. I'm thinking it was from 100-200 laps but after another stone which would have made it less of a leap than you are taking. That's been a concern having never worked with a coticule or slate I can't guess how appropriate it is to follow up with one of these stones. It may not work well at all no matter what results I get.
Oooohhhhh! I bet that silurian novaculite is just plain old slate! I've been hoping someone from the east or northeast would show up. Slate was mined all along the eastern seaboard.
If it is slate, then it will look like the tiles on older colonial homes. Someone locally will know where it is to be found. If it is actually novaculite, then it will likely be found near slate ot limestone strata and will have a conchoidal fracture pattern when broken, like glass. The mica schist is probably phyllite. It looks like really shiny slate, kind of like it has an oily coating. You may need to do some homework to guess locations.
Turkey stone is another matter. Sources seem to disagree slightly. Some say it is a type of petrified wood. Here is a photo:
It may be or may not. Know any rockhounds in your area?
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Prelim test. 1st - there's a crack in the stone... didn't see it before. Might have happened during lapping maybe? I don't know to be honest. It runs across the stone by one end. No worries, this isn't going to be much of a hurdle.
I took a blade to it tonight. I had previously run this over a Hindostan, which left a pretty hazy scratch pattern with some polish. The Ocean Jasper did not remove the scratches but it did polish the bevel considerably. I didn't feel any waves in the stone as described. Feels smooth like glass to me. My feeling is that it cuts very little very slowly. This is definitely a finisher-only stone. I would guess that if I had come off an 5 or an 8k synth this might dial the edge in further. But I have to actually do that to know for sure. After the holiday I'll get to it.
I took a blade to it tonight. I had previously run this over a Hindostan, which left a pretty hazy scratch pattern with some polish. The Ocean Jasper did not remove the scratches but it did polish the bevel considerably. I didn't feel any waves in the stone as described. Feels smooth like glass to me. My feeling is that it cuts very little very slowly. This is definitely a finisher-only stone. I would guess that if I had come off an 5 or an 8k synth this might dial the edge in further. But I have to actually do that to know for sure. After the holiday I'll get to it.
R
Rsq
I dont know any rockhounds period
i think I may have a bunch of mica schist in my backyard. Kinda wavy patterns, silvery color with some reddish brown inclusions?
I gather that Novaculite is like flint? Would flint work for a hone?
How about marble?
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i have tried marble..... i will be honest it was a half hearted effort...... but i found the piece i tried to have NO cutting and a minor polishing effect..... and that it would take 100's of strokes to benefit....
*(disclaimer.... the marble i tried was a scrap piece i got from a local cabinet shop...... it is polished... i tried to lap it to remove the polish but it was very difficult due to the size of the piece... i know use it as a little lap top desk for holding stones when i hone..... the piece is 12''x~8"......)
*(disclaimer.... the marble i tried was a scrap piece i got from a local cabinet shop...... it is polished... i tried to lap it to remove the polish but it was very difficult due to the size of the piece... i know use it as a little lap top desk for holding stones when i hone..... the piece is 12''x~8"......)
That's too bad. Looks like you need to sleuth it out yourself.
The mica schist in your backyard may be the stuff. Anyone who could tell you for sure is likely dead for many years now. Does it break into sheets or "shingles" too? If it does, you may well have phyllite. As best I understand it the metamorphic sequence from shale to schist is:
shale->slate->phyllite->schist
The phyllite here does resemble schist quite a bit. You may want to examine it closely. There's the possibility of fairly large garnets, pyrites, and heaven knows what else. A razor might not take well to it.
The Finns apparently use phyllite and have for centuries it seems.
Using flint is an open question. It's nothing more than silicone dioxide and that is the same for the stones I have been working with. You would need to somehow cut and lap it and give it a whirl. I've looked at the chert out here and it is so fine that I expect it would polish only. That's not necessarily a bad thing used appropriately. I suggest finding a lapidary or lapidary club and asking if anyone can help. I pay $2/cut if I need that service. Takes a few minutes with the right equipment, but that equipment don't come cheap.
And if you come up with anything interesting, I'll be happy to offer rocks in trade.
- Thread starter
- #218
Hmmm... Doesn't sound like it went quite right or you have an even tougher beard than I do! In which case you might consider a chainsaw for your shaving needs.
For what it is worth, I suspect you may have been using a higher level of pressure than I might or there just weren't enough laps. That was a pretty slow stone to start with and it's possible you just got a partial polish too. I had been using it after a stone that probably approaches 8k. It still seemed to take a bit after until it was done. When I speak of not much pressure, I'm talking about not much more pressure than I would shave with. For whatever reason, whether using a lapping film or stone when finishing, I get better results that way. Tomorrow I will get "Ugly Betty" out, cut a new bevel and see just how long it takes. I'm thinking it was from 100-200 laps but after another stone which would have made it less of a leap than you are taking. That's been a concern having never worked with a coticule or slate I can't guess how appropriate it is to follow up with one of these stones. It may not work well at all no matter what results I get.
Oooohhhhh! I bet that silurian novaculite is just plain old slate! I've been hoping someone from the east or northeast would show up. Slate was mined all along the eastern seaboard.
If it is slate, then it will look like the tiles on older colonial homes. Someone locally will know where it is to be found. If it is actually novaculite, then it will likely be found near slate ot limestone strata and will have a conchoidal fracture pattern when broken, like glass. The mica schist is probably phyllite. It looks like really shiny slate, kind of like it has an oily coating. You may need to do some homework to guess locations.
Turkey stone is another matter. Sources seem to disagree slightly. Some say it is a type of petrified wood. Here is a photo:
View attachment 202139
It may be or may not. Know any rockhounds in your area?
[SIZE=-1]The Silurian rocks cover much of central and north Wales and the Welsh Marches, parts of Ireland and Cumbria, and the Southern Uplands of Scotland. They are well known for slates and shales or siltstones which were used for roofing in Wales and Scotland but in South Wales there are also famous micaceous sandstones which produced stone-slates from Cilmaenllwydd to Builth Wells. Further east roofing has been produced from the same beds in Powys and South Shropshire.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]From Llandeilo in South Wales to Ludlow, the lowest part of the Silurian, the Pridoli Series, consists of micaceous flaggy sandstones, known as the Tilestone Formation. Today it is more correctly called the Long Quarry Beds in the south and the Downton Castle Sandstone Formation in the north. Its use is differentiated by the initial capital in ‘tilestone’, otherwise used to describe any stone slate. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The ‘Tilestones’ were originally named by Murchison at Llandeilo in West Glamorgan, where roofing was produced in a series of long, narrow quarries. In The Silurian System (1839) he described the route of these ‘finely laminated, hard, reddish or green, micaceous, quartzose sandstones’ in a north-easterly direction across South Wales and into Herefordshire and Shropshire.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]This lower division of the Old Red System, though of much smaller dimensions than the overlying formations, has very marked characters both in structure and fossil contents, and is very clearly defined by occupying a position in which it passes upwards into the cornstone and marls, and downwards into the Silurian rocks. In this relation it has been already alluded to at Pont-ar-lleche (bridge on the tiles 32), near Llangadock in Caermarthenshire, from whence it is seen to run in a nearly rectilinear course, from the Tri-chrug on the south-west, to near Builth (SO 044507) on the north-east, occupying the loftiest part of the escarpments of the wild tracts of Mynidd bwlch-y-groes and Mynidd Epynt, at heights of fifteen hundred and sixteen hundred feet. In this range, the tilestones are extensively quarried, and the strata, which are inclined at seventy and eighty degrees near Pont-ar-lleche, diminish to forty and forty-five degrees at the north-eastern end of the Mynidd Epynt, the dip being invariably to the south-east. After a great flexure on the Wye, to the east of Builth, the tilestones are again found in similar relations overlapping the Silurian rocks in the Begwm and Clyro Hills, Radnorshire, and ex-tending thence to Kington in Herefordshire; in which part of their range they are much less inclined. Throughout their course from Caermarthenshire to Kington, the distinguishing beds are finely laminated, hard, reddish or green, micaceous, quartzose sandstones, which split into tiles. Although the greenish colours prevail, these beds are usually associated with reddish shale, and the decomposition of the mass uniformly produces a red soil, by which character alone the outline of the division is easily defined; being always clearly sepa-rable from the upper beds of the Silurian System, which decompose into a grey surface. In Shropshire and the contiguous parts of Herefordshire, this lower member of the Old Red System rarely occupies high ground, (except in the instance of the outlier of Clun Forest, hereafter to be described,) and being for the most part recumbent on the talus of the upper Silurian rocks, where the latter sink down into valleys, it is generally much obscured by alluvial detritus. In the gorge of the Teme, however, between Ludlow and Downton Castle, it is well laid open, particularly at a spot called the Tin Mill. Flaglike, micaceous, dark red sandstone ‘Bur Stones’ rise there at an angle of about fifteen degrees from beneath the red argillaceous marls of Oakley Park, and pass down into a lightish-coloured grey, yellowish, and greenish grey freestone, of which Downton Castle is built, which will presently be described as constituting the upper stratum of the Silurian System. Similar relations are visible at Ludlow, and at Richard’s Castle to the south of Ludlow. [/SIZE][/TD]
[SIZE=-1]In this district, however, these lower red and yellowish beds, or ‘bur stones’, are seldom so fissile as the ‘tile stones’ described in South Wales …[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Tilestone Group, east side of Herefordshire. As the Old Red Sandstone lies in a vast trough bounded by the Silurian System both on its eastern and western flanks, we ought to find its lower member, or tilestones, forming the western fringe of the Malvern Hills. Owing, however, to high inclination, the accumulation of detritus, and other results of disturbance, these beds are rarely well displayed for any distance along the eastern frontier of the Herefordshire basin. They are, however, clearly laid bare in a natural transverse section at Brockhill Knell between Mathon and Ledbury, where thin bands of yellowish green, micaceous flagstone, one and two inches thick, are subordinate to red, green and purple marls, the whole dipping away to the west and overlying the grey Ludlow rocks at an angle of forty-five degrees. Hard and thin flaggy rocks belonging to this group are also seen at the north-eastern suburb of Ledbury, dipping fifty-five degrees west-north-west, but the flanks of the ledges of older rocks near that town are encumbered with so much stiff red clay and detritus that the exact junction beds can rarely be distinguished. The same causes of obscuration, apply to the line of junction between the Old Red Sandstone and the Sulurian rocks of the May Hill range. In some valleys of elevation, however, the upper surfaces of the grey-coloured Silurian Rocks, which are thrown up in their interior, ex-hibit on their external faces clear examples of passage into the bottom beds of the Old Red Sandstone. This is well seen on the eastern slopes of the Clytha Hills, two or three miles east of Ragland, and will be further alluded to in the sequel.[/SIZE]
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This is a very cool thread....I'm subscribed....
Might have to run to Lowe's and see if I can find some nice dark slate!
Might have to run to Lowe's and see if I can find some nice dark slate!
Good grief... 
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