Making a hone

[Pkrankow]

Today was almost like Christmas...complete with excitement and disappointment (my used tractor transaxle has the wrong axle stubs in it, got to take BOTH the new and old back and he can switch it around.) I also got 6 brush knots from TGN AND the Mythical hone!

The "Mythical" hone arrived today. I took it to my recently rehoned on coticule razor with water and shaved with it. I'll give it a passing grade on the edge. My razor was much *louder* than normal though...dunno...beard was a little longer than normal too.

I went about 100 laps on tap water. The stone does not slurry (Didn't expect it to) and it does not hold water (Did you use oil previously Nobody?) After a number of laps it was holding a spread of fine droplets instead of a few big beads.

I am going to start fresh on another razor with a Chosera 1k, then coticule slurry, then the Mythical hone maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow. It's not going to be true "apples to apples" since I do not have two identical razors, and I don't want to restart honing on the same razor again and again.

Phil

 

[Nobody]

No, no oil, just water with a little castille soap. Perhaps the castille is leaving a residue of some kind? If you have a camera that will do the job, please post a pic. I know mine won't do the stone justice. I have piece of that for my own use. Candy jasper seems to be the follow on as far as pushing the edge a little further. My hollow ground blades seem to talk a lot after that one too.

Edit: Which version of coticule do you use? One of the finer or more coarse species?

Edit 2: I know why the water is beading and running off. The stone is acting like glass. Clean glass repels moisture! And I tried to hard to forget everything I learned in college chemistry classes too...

 

[xMackx]

Which stone seems to have given you the best feedback out of all the ones you've cut so far Jeff?

 

[xMackx]

I just read that old chalk boards were made of this black slate. So I'm going to keep an eye open for old chalk boards if I can find one cheap.

 

[Hammertime1]

All the talk about slate lately had me thinking about two outdoor centers that I'm pretty sure I saw large chunks
of slate and other specialty stone they sold for decorative rock gardens etc. sadly as I drove past both this weekend they were out of business. Only time I drive past them is this time of year and talk about a disapoinment. But seeing all the possibilities for new /old discoveries coming to the table for straight honing is very exciting. This is a great thread. Some of the prospect hones look absolutely beautiful!

 

[xMackx]

Prospectors we are, there's whetstones in them there hills!

 

[Nobody]

Which stone seems to have given you the best feedback out of all the ones you've cut so far Jeff?

Mack, they are all a little different. The mystery stone was the coarsest, but shocked me a couple times with amazing polished edges. That was very hard to control tho. My guess was that I just lacked expertise to tease out the best performance. The lizard stone follows and is a bit finer and easier to use, the petrified wood finer still and the candy jasper seems finest. Lizard stone and up will usually mirror polish the edge and spine perfectly when any fine dust from honing is removed. That's been an easy way to check progress. I'm usually watching the idiot box in subdued lighting while honing and I keep a point source of light over to one side and occasionally clean up the blade so I can see how the image of the light reflects. By written description it is somewhat different than the routine for, say, a coticule user. At any rate, there are 3 distinct levels of refinement shown in the stones so far. You have the lowest one, but it is a funky kind of rock that showed me some unstable tendencies.

What I am doing is going from a very fine arkie to the wood and onto candy jasper. How that will compare with what anyone else uses is unknown to me. When I lapped the mystery stone it was only barely finer than my middle arkie(very fine translucent). My best bench stone needs lapping too bad to use.

I'm also on the hunt for more petrified wood, etc., as well as on the trail of some lower grit stone that will hopefully resemble stone from Finland. Naturally, it's all gonna become available for testing & whatnot.

 

[Nobody]

Some of the prospect hones look absolutely beautiful!

You are aware that you have a choice to make between them, right? lol

 

[Pkrankow]

I just read that old chalk boards were made of this black slate. So I'm going to keep an eye open for old chalk boards if I can find one cheap.

I remember cleaning them is grade school. Water wash daily, Murphy's oil soap on Friday, every week (Well, someone did it daily/weekly, I took my turn like everybody else, but would trade to wash boards as it was easier than other daily chores.)

No, no oil, just water with a little castille soap. Perhaps the castille is leaving a residue of some kind? If you have a camera that will do the job, please post a pic. I know mine won't do the stone justice. I have piece of that for my own use. Candy jasper seems to be the follow on as far as pushing the edge a little further. My hollow ground blades seem to talk a lot after that one too.

Edit: Which version of coticule do you use? One of the finer or more coarse species?

Edit 2: I know why the water is beading and running off. The stone is acting like glass. Clean glass repels moisture! And I tried to hard to forget everything I learned in college chemistry classes too...

I will try a bit of soap in the water. It could be "too" clean, like you say. I watch the water for feedback on edge condition and when to move to the next higher grit. When the edge gathers water evenly it is done at that level. If the blade and hone are wet with slurry/swarf you can see the dark water "cut" off the surface of the hone. It always starts in one or two spots then becomes the whole edge.

I have yellow and green coticule. My larger ones are yellow, and my smaller one is green. I want to get a larger green coticule say 40x150 or so. I love the edge I get on the green, but it takes a while on the tiny 25x75 bout I have.

I work all thought the slurry on the yellow, and my yellow is faster and self-slurries to an extent, so I dilute in 3 stages, aggressively. After rinsed under running water (3rd dilution) it needs rinsed and wiped down with my hand under running water to have a prayer of finishing on water (repeat rinse/wipe after 50 laps, then 25 laps then test hht3+ hopefully, go back to rinse and 25 if not), so sometimes I would use mineral oil. The green with water I now use from the last stage of yellow on water for about 100 laps, with the last 50 careful single half strokes. Takes me about 20-30 minutes to go from a Chosera 1k to shave ready HHT3+ (although I don't check HHT every time anymore. I trust the water feedback and feel on the stone.)

I hone standing in the kitchen holding the stone typically. I find sitting makes me bump the table and I have problems, but a tall stool away from the counter works ok. I don't use bench stones because I don't own any, and have never used them before.

Phil

I draw my HHT slowly slightly down over the edge holding the tip end of the hair with more than an inch extended. I use my wife's fine blond hair, it tends to test 1 lower than my own hair.

hht1 "violin" (this is shave ready as a minimum to me)
hht2 split lengthwise (I never see this level)
hht3 catch and pop (I prefer shaving on this edge or sharper)
hht4 pop instantly (this is a nice shave!)
hht5 silent part (I have yet to get this sharp)

 

[xMackx]

WHETSTONE-SLATE, WHET-SLATE, n. Novaculite or coticular shist, a variety of slate used for sharpening instruments of iron. The light green colored variety from the Levant is the most valuable. It should be kept in a damp place, that it may not become too dry and hard.

 

[Nobody]

Wow Phrankow, you make me feel lazy! The stones I use require so little water that I could probably sharpen a dozen with about a cup, so I'm lounging pretty comfortably and unconcerned with the occasional drip.

I'll be studying your description some. Pretty interesting and far more complicated than what I do. Different stone, different method.

 

[Gamma]

Ocean Jasper arrived today - very interesting piece of stone. Needed some lapping, brought it up to 1.2k and it seems like it might want to go up to 2k... I would have run a blade over it tonight but I was doing a Sheffiled on a Jnat and got caught up in Naguraville.
First impression in my hand is that it feels rougher, more coarse than I believe it to be. Kind of like some Arkansas stones.. not surpising actually, considering its lineage. If it cuts, and it's abrasive is continuous across the stone, then I think it'll be a decent finisher. I may do a prelim test later tonight.
Thanks for the offer to road-test this puppy.

 

[Hammertime1]

Jeff, I apologize for missing the post and not responding sooner, my fault. I completlely skipped over the one. I somehow managed to read above and below it. If a candy or ocean is left that is fine. I generally prefer the wider hones whenever possible but nothing like getting more experience on narrower stuff either. I will leave it up to you. It would be interesting to see people post pictures of what the edges looked like honed with these stones compared to other hones as well as description of shave with comparrisons. It appears there were lots of hones of varrying compositions throughout the U.S and world. Many sources dried out or the amount was too small to make commercially avilable. Petrified wood seems to be popular with some woodworkers and that it had been handed down in the few instances I found. It's a shame even some stuff that could be avilable from other sources isn't because again its a local known thing and only sold locally. Sounds like at some point we need to pass around an old razor that's a sweet shaver and various newly or rediscovered hones for individual and group comparisons. I always liked testing stuff and analyzing data.

 

[xMackx]

Jeff, I apologize for missing the post and not responding sooner, my fault. I completlely skipped over the one. I somehow managed to read above and below it. If a candy or ocean is left that is fine. I generally prefer the wider hones whenever possible but nothing like getting more experience on narrower stuff either. I will leave it up to you. It would be interesting to see people post pictures of what the edges looked like honed with these stones compared to other hones as well as description of shave with comparrisons. It appears there were lots of hones of varrying compositions throughout the U.S and world. Many sources dried out or the amount was too small to make commercially avilable. Petrified wood seems to be popular with some woodworkers and that it had been handed down in the few instances I found. It's a shame even some stuff that could be avilable from other sources isn't because again its a local known thing and only sold locally. Sounds like at some point we need to pass around an old razor that's a sweet shaver and various newly or rediscovered hones for individual and group comparisons. I always liked testing stuff and analyzing data.

From all the reading i have done, it was the invention of the artificial stone that killed the natural whetstone industry. It's much cheaper for a company to mix and press artificial hones than it is to hire quarrymen to cut rock. In fact There is a ghost town in my state called Grindstone city that was made into a ghost town because of the invention of the artificial whetstone. This is also the reason why natural whetstones can be so expensive, not that the natural stones are rare but because there are only a few quarries left that produce our beloved naturals.

 

[paco664]

From all the reading i have done, it was the invention of the artificial stone that killed the natural whetstone industry. It's much cheaper for a company to mix and press artificial hones than it is to hire quarrymen to cut rock. In fact There is a ghost town in my state that was made into a ghost town because of the invention of the artificial whetstone. This is also the reason why natural whetstones can be so expensive, not that the natural stones are rare but because there are only a few quarries left that produce our beloved naturals.

hmm... a bit more info about this....

*(one of the perks of my job is that i fly for free.... i have absolutely no problem flying somewhere to search for stuff like this.... )

 

[kirk 988]

Oh.... but aren't you a brave fellow! PM me your address when you get a chance.



Tasmania? Oh damn.... bet the shipping would be outrageous. By all means, post pics & let people know how it works.

i didnt pay for it thaank god ill show the little one when i have time

 

[PapaFish]

I got my Lizard Stone in the mail today! I have a 6/8 Sheffield that I couldn't remember how I had finished, so I decided that was the right one for the job. I pulled out my slate and gave it enough time to make sure that the former edge was long gone, then moved on to the Lizard Stone. I worked on bringing the edge up to snuff for a good while. It seemed to take a quite a while to take the edge from the ~6K of the slate up to the potential of the Lizard Stone. I think I may have gotten too aggressive on the stone, and it seems to be maxing out at HHT1+ (it REALLY wants to split the hair lengthwise, but it doesn't). The good thing is that the the edge is extremely consistent heel to toe, which means that both of the stones are working well. Maybe if I take it easy enough, the stone will come back up in performance like Jeff was reporting. I will be trying out the edge in the morning (and after 3+ weeks of shaving with disposables, it will be a welcome change of pace!).

 

[Hammertime1]

There are lots of good articles suprisigly about the demise of natural hones. I have read more then several since getting involved in this thread, by no means does that make me an expert. but is apparant there is more then one reason why sources for various hone sources drying up or stopped to include the man made versions replacing them. One article I read even included wars in the reasoning to demise of certain hones to include the complete destruction of the source during wars. I wish I saved that one. Here is a good article about the carbo replacing its equivalent even though according to this source the natural was superior. http://www.geo.msu.edu/geogmich/Grindstones.htm. Also realize what I was referring to was not a certain time period. various sources dried up per say long before synthetic hones came to market. Even during the time of the Indians and long before one could actually say some materials that we could possibly say might also be suitable for hones was used up because this is what they used for their tools/weapons etc. I have several books that discuss this in depth and why trade was important among the different tribes. I got into knapping and traditional archery several years ago. When I was in the hospital recovering from a spinal surgery I had lots of time to read. It is weird how some this which seem so far apart can be related.

 

[Nobody]

Ocean Jasper arrived today - very interesting piece of stone. Needed some lapping, brought it up to 1.2k and it seems like it might want to go up to 2k... I would have run a blade over it tonight but I was doing a Sheffiled on a Jnat and got caught up in Naguraville.
First impression in my hand is that it feels rougher, more coarse than I believe it to be. Kind of like some Arkansas stones.. not surpising actually, considering its lineage. If it cuts, and it's abrasive is continuous across the stone, then I think it'll be a decent finisher. I may do a prelim test later tonight.
Thanks for the offer to road-test this puppy.

It won't feel continuous, but will feel very strange. The agate has a much higher friction for some reason. It didn't seem to cause any harm to any razor I put on it, but I did get a queazy feeling until I checked under the microscope. Too strange. The candy jasper does the same thing across the bands but it isn't so bad. That's what I am using as a final stone. The agate in the mix just seems to give a better polish and give a little je ne sais quoi. Edge feels a little better to me anyway.

@ Hammertime: No problemo dude. The candy jasper don't do squat until the edge is alreay pretty refined, the piece of ocean jasper left has no agate and feels like a piece of fine ceramic. Take your pick.


And I think you hit the nail on the head about the hones of the past. We have been hoodwinked by the "New and Improved" marketing game. It's likely that the more we look, the more potentials for natural hones we will find. Unique stones that aren't currently available on the market at any price. Yet, well known to our forebears. Check out the left hand side of the page about halfway down:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...bJaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=CFADAAAAIBAJ&pg=4458,5457484

We are so "modern" and "sophisticated", but how much knowledge has been lost I wonder?

 

[Hammertime1]

Ocean it shall be then kind sir. After I relearn the various compositions and ratios of certain properties that beneift or hinder what we are attempting, I have a few ideas I would like to discuss as well hopefully to speed up our learning curve. That article you found is A SWEET FIND. I wonder if there is any more specifics since their are variations or hopefully it doesn't matter either way I think we can get enough to figure it out.