Yet Another Journal of Razors and Blades and Stuff

[APBinNCA]

Why would that be though? Either way, the blade should be able to cut the hair. If anything, it seems to me that the blade would cut more easily the closer to parallel (shallower) it is, provided the tip of the blade is at skin level. Neutral makes sense as well, as the safety bar gives some protection from skin getting bunched ahead of the blade, though a little bit of skin stretching should prevent that too. Sorry if I sound like I'm being contrary, I'm just trying to understand how steep could be advantageous before trying it, since intuitively it seems harsher/riskier.

Thinking about it without looking up my past posts, it does sound counterintuitive, Thom has a good explanation. I know it's true though because everybody that has used a straight razor has at least once tilted the razor to a steep angle when it wasn't cutting. It probably produces a less clean cut and it certainly carries a high risk with a straight, but it solves the problem. It probably seems strange trying to visualise it in the context of a safety razor with the handle below instead of to the side. I have theorised before that the angle on the Henson was chosen because it's a good compromise between efficiency and safety and that it would be massively inefficient if it was shallower. A good example is an injector razor: in spite of the rigid blade, you have to tilt it out some from the built in 15° angle to get it to cut at all. For what it's worth, I wouldn't consider steep of neutral scraping until you approach 40° blade to face angle, that might be your answer that you are still slicing right up until you aren't.

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

@T Bone and I have been trading notes on things Athena, Overlander and Tatara, and we'll move our conversation over here in the coming weeks. I'm taking my time to suss this all out, so don't rush me on this.

I've been struggling with the Athena.

The short story is, that with my current technique, I'm trending on a downward shaving quality spiral when shaving with it for 3, 4, or more shaves in succession. I've arrived at a remarkably good first or second shave with it.

The Athena (for me) is producing wonderful shaves, especially when I stretch my shaving interval out to 36 hours or more. The shaves are so close, that I have trouble justifying a 24 hour shave with this razor. Of course, that means fewer "reps" with which to hone my skills.

We casually use the term "daily driver" when categorizing our razors, and I'm beginning to think that not enough emphasis is being placed on this descriptor.

This brings me to wondering how to call more attention to it. Even if this doesn't become an accepted norm (and I don't expect it to be), I'm placing a personal emphasis on the following two variants (adding "DD" to the following acronyms):

1. CCDDS (close, comfortable daily driver)
2. DFDDS (damn fine daily driver)

This sets a shaving standard for real world use cases, and I think it's worth considering.

The problem of course becomes one of categorizing its negation (e.g. close, comfortable, not-a-daily-driver). That would apply to (for example), my current experience of the Athena.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't consider steep of neutral scraping until you approach 40° blade to face angle, that might be your answer that you are still slicing right up until you aren't.

This (threshold of slicing) makes sense.

... Thom

 

[Phoenixkh]

@T Bone and I have been trading notes on things Athena, Overlander and Tatara, and we'll move our conversation over here in the coming weeks. I'm taking my time to suss this all out, so don't rush me on this.

I've been struggling with the Athena.

The short story is, that with my current technique, I'm trending on a downward shaving quality spiral when shaving with it for 3, 4, or more shaves in succession. I've arrived at a remarkably good first or second shave with it.

The Athena (for me) is producing wonderful shaves, especially when I stretch my shaving interval out to 36 hours or more. The shaves are so close, that I have trouble justifying a 24 hour shave with this razor. Of course, that means fewer "reps" with which to hone my skills.

We casually use the term "daily driver" when categorizing our razors, and I'm beginning to think that not enough emphasis is being placed on this descriptor.

This brings me to wondering how to call more attention to it. Even if this doesn't become an accepted norm (and I don't expect it to be), I'm placing a personal emphasis on the following two variants (adding "DD" to the following acronyms):

1. CCDDS (close, comfortable daily driver)
2. DFDDS (damn fine daily driver)

This sets a shaving standard for real world use cases, and I think it's worth considering.

The problem of course becomes one of categorizing its negation (e.g. close, comfortable, not-a-daily-driver). That would apply to (for example), my current experience of the Athena.


This (threshold of slicing) makes sense.

... Thom

I try to remember that qualifier. I never shave every day unless something unexpected comes up. I often forget and I agree, if someone is doing razor comparisons, it’s a crucial factor.

I’m looking for 12 hour shaves, but that might well be too much if I shaved every day.

 

[spacemonkey42]

Hey! I wanna play along! I have the Athena and Overlander. I have to get back to the Muramasa too.

Thom, it sounds like you have more sensitive skin than I do. I can shave daily, I'm fortunate that my face stands up to that. You're right, the Athena is much more efficient than the Overlander. I didn't realize that until I shaved with one right after the other. So that makes total sense that the Overlander is a bit easier on your face. I use a sharper blade in the Overlander because of that.

You make a good point, it is good to know if someone calls something a daily driver, are they really shaving daily? Like @APBinNCA said, folks should also specify number of passes and if they go ATG, which makes a huge difference.

 

[Phoenixkh]

Hey! I wanna play along! I have the Athena and Overlander. I have to get back to the Muramasa too.

Thom, it sounds like you have more sensitive skin than I do. I can shave daily, I'm fortunate that my face stands up to that. You're right, the Athena is much more efficient than the Overlander. I didn't realize that until I shaved with one right after the other. So that makes total sense that the Overlander is a bit easier on your face. I use a sharper blade in the Overlander because of that.

You make a good point, it is good to know if someone calls something a daily driver, are they really shaving daily? Like @APBinNCA said, folks should also specify number of passes and if they go ATG, which makes a huge difference.

I should have added: I do a 4 pass shave... WTG, two XTG passes, one in each direction... and the final ATG. If I've done my job, I don't usually need touch-ups, but sometimes I do. I don't call my shaves BBS because we have an almost 7 month old granddaughter and I know what baby's skin feels like. I don't leave any stray whiskers behind and an usually get everything smooth, even my neck.

The Athena does a wonderful job for me and I don't hesitate to recommend it with those caveats.

 

[T Bone]

The Athena (for me) is producing wonderful shaves, especially when I stretch my shaving interval out to 36 hours or more. The shaves are so close, that I have trouble justifying a 24 hour shave with this razor. Of course, that means fewer "reps" with which to hone my skills.

Thanks for bringing this conversation over here. I've been reading the comments, but am just now able to get a few minutes on the laptop to reply.

I find the same thing with most razors. At 24 hours, I'm not far off from where my cartridge shaves used to leave me immediately after finishing, so while I could shave, I don’t feel like I need to. I also find the extra recovery time helpful. I shaved yesterday morning at a little over 24 hours since my last shave. I got 4 weepers, which isn't great but is within my "normal" range, but my face still felt uncomfortable several hours later, which is unusual for me. I wouldn't mind shaving daily, but I'm glad I don't have to.

We casually use the term "daily driver" when categorizing our razors, and I'm beginning to think that not enough emphasis is being placed on this descriptor.

I've never been clear on just what is meant by "daily driver". I've understood it as meaning "the razor you use most of the time", but if it's "a razor you use every day", then I'm guilty of using the term wrong too (not that I use it very often).

Hey! I wanna play along! I have the Athena and Overlander. I have to get back to the Muramasa too.

Come on in!

You make a good point, it is good to know if someone calls something a daily driver, are they really shaving daily? Like @APBinNCA said, folks should also specify number of passes and if they go ATG, which makes a huge difference.

It would be helpful to know how someone shaves when reading a shave report or review or recommendation, but I’m not sure how reasonable it is to expect those details. It’d be nice if there was some easy way to tell though, like it was a part of a profile or something.

I should have added: I do a 4 pass shave... WTG, two XTG passes, one in each direction... and the final ATG. If I've done my job, I don't usually need touch-ups, but sometimes I do. I don't call my shaves BBS because we have an almost 7 month old granddaughter and I know what baby's skin feels like. I don't leave any stray whiskers behind and an usually get everything smooth, even my neck.

Me, I shave about 4x/week. 2 passes - first is part XTG / part ATG, second is all ATG. Full face shave but not head.

 

[T Bone]

Tatara Masadachi CC
Bic CP (4)
Wald A1 Nimbus
Proraso green soap
AoS eucalyptus balm

Saturday's shave was at just over 24 hours, this afternoon's was well over 48. It made a huge difference, or at I think it did. Something did. Much more comfortable shave, with just 2 tiny spots of blood even though I lingered too long in front of the sink. And little to no discomfort since the shave. 8.5/10 DFS+.

Even with today's result, I got safer and more comfortable shaves with the Nacet overall despite the even milder exposure of the Bic. (And also more efficient, though that isn't surprising). This got me looking at my shaves over the past few months. I typically did 1 week with Nacet and 1 week with another blade, and every single time, the Nacet was better for me. In fact, it made the differences between most razors I've been testing much clearer.

Overall:
1. Henson++
2a. Tatara Masadachi
2b. Tatara Masamune
4. Henson+++
5a. Tatara Nodamune
5b. Blackland Blackbird Lite

Looking at just Nacet shaves, Nodamune was slightly better than the Litebird - it was slightly below when looking at both blades tried - but it doesn't matter since neither was going to be a keeper. Masadachi is slightly ahead of the full Masamune on my spreadsheet, though I'm not sure I feel that way, so that may be more a flaw in my rating system. We'll see when I come back to them. I'm hoping to try out a new razor starting later this week or early next week, but I'll be revisiting those top 3. I'll also plan to only test with Nacets going forward, at least for these purposes. I did sign up for the 2 Bridges PIF, because I've really enjoyed those blade PIFs in the past, but I won't be tracking them for this comparison.

 

[T Bone]

Been awhile since I posted a picture. I’m a form-follows-function kind of guy, but this is a really nice looking razor!

Lambda Athena - First Shave
Nacet (1)
Wald A1 Nimbus
Proraso green soap
AoS eucalyptus balm

Got me a Lambda Athena to try out for a few weeks. I'm not into bronze (though I must say she's beautiful when shiny!) but wanted to see if it was worth pursuing a steel one since several guys here whose favorite razors are mild-medium like mine speak so highly of it.

First thing I noticed just from unpacking is the heavy handle. Most of my best razors are on the lighter side, but I don't really have a strong preference, and the weight didn't bother me once I started shaving. Nor did the flat areas in the top half of the handle that I’ve seen criticized. So that was good.

Everyone in the Athena thread talks about the blade noise, how you can tell you have the optimal angle when it's the loudest. I don't normally have much use for a WTG pass, but I started with a N-S pass today just to listen for and find the angle. It was steeper than I expected or usually shave at, but I went with it. And I could be wrong, but it seemed to get muffled a bit when applying pressure, which is a fantastic reminder to me to back off.

Next, I went into my standard 2 passes, though I took it very slowly, listening for and watching the angle and keeping the pressure off. I don't know how long the shave took. I know it was way too long for every day, but I didn't care today - I had the time, and this shave was just about getting used to a new razor.

The shave was really nice. A little blade feel, but it was super-gentle. No nicks or weepers, some alum feedback but not excessive, and my skin feels fantastic. Felt my face about an hour later and damn, this is a smooth shave! I'm struggling to find any missed stubble on my neck even, just a couple spots on my chin and mustache.

I'm not going to get too excited over just 1 shave, but I'm impressed! I don't expect her to perform this well under normal conditions, but if she's anywhere close, I'll have to put my name on the wait list. I do know I'll be stroking my face pensively for the rest of the afternoon.

Have a great weekend!

 

[spacemonkey42]

Great tools for a great shave! That's an exceptional shave for a first outing with a new razor. Nice!

 

[Phoenixkh]

Great tools for a great shave! That's an exceptional shave for a first outing with a new razor. Nice!

Too true... Well done, T bone... It is hard to describe shaving with an Athena.... but you did an excellent job in your write-up... And I'm glad you seem to like it right off the bat. In my experience, it only got better from there.

 

[T Bone]

Too true... Well done, T bone... It is hard to describe shaving with an Athena.... but you did an excellent job in your write-up... And I'm glad you seem to like it right off the bat. In my experience, it only got better from there.

Thanks! I’m trying not to get too excited after just one shave, but it was pretty excellent. I’m sure there will be ups and downs, but I’ll try not to fall into the trap of trying to do too much on shave 2 after a successful shave 1. And I’ll see soon enough how it performs when I have to be more expeditious than I was today.

 

[Balin]

I don't want to jinx it but great results!!

 

[spacemonkey42]

Taking @T Bone's advice, I set the Muramasa to 2 and shaved with a fresh Perma-Sharp. First thought - how am I feeling the blade?!?!? It is like the Athena, I swear I can.

Tatara Muramasa at 2 - gap = 0.70mm / exposure = negative 0.07mm​

The 3-pass shave was very comfortable, ATG was exceptionally smooth and easy. I did 2 ATG passes in several places. It felt so safe and mild, I had to do all I could to not add pressure. I somehow succeeded. No weepers and no astringent feedback at all. The shave quality result is around an 8.5 (BBS on 60%+).

I'm liking the Muramasa. It is amazing that a negative exposure can get me to BBS in most places, but somehow it does. It is really well made too.

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

As @T Bone alluded, a few of us have been chatting privately about the trifecta of Overlander, Tatara, and Athena. I’ll try to paint a 30,000-foot view in this first post, and if in reading it, you find it’s inconclusive, that’s because it is. The more I cycle through razors that are in my general wheelhouse, the more challenging I find it to articulate the difference between them. I suppose this is as it should be, because after all, they are more alike than they are different.

I can also blame Galibier Rule #1: any observation I have that’s more than a month old is irrelevant. Upon returning to a razor or blade after a 30-day break, I find that I approach it differently and my results vary (past performance is no indication of future results).

I’ve been a cartridge shaving apostate for 11 months, and the learning curve seems to be flattening out, but I’m still learning new tricks, and geeking out with the likes of @APBinNCA certainly causes introspection about my technique.

With that preamble, here’s the TL;DR with details to follow:

1. My departure from decades of cartridge shaving occurred last March, when I picked up an AL 13+
2. Around May, I began experimentation with Gamechangers – primarily .76-P, along with dabbling with .68-P and .84-P base plates.
3. For 10 weeks in September through December, it’s been 85% Overlander with a bit of Gamechanger.
4. Just before Christmas, an Athena entered the picture, and I began giving the Overlander and Athena equal time.
5. This week – enter the Masamune (Masamune, Masamune OC and Nodachi base plates).
6. For my comparisons, I’ve been using a Personna Platinum Chrome, although during the extended September to December (Overlander) period I returned to blade experimentation: Gillette Silver Blues, Nacets, Platinums, and & 7 O’clock Greens (Super Stainless from St. Pete).
7. Soap has been a constant for about 8 months: Cella Red and Haslingers Shafmilch, with me leaning more and more towards the Haslingers with each passing month.
8. Brushes have been a Mühle STF from the motherland, two Synbads from AP Shave Co, an Oumo ST-1 (Rudy Vey handle), and (this week), a second STF from Andrew at AP Shave Co. (beautiful and ergonomically perfect Shavemac handle).

I won’t have a lot to say about the Tatara until a half dozen or so shaves, save to say that I’m in tentative agreement with what I’ve read - that like the Overlander and Athena, the full Masamune is “sneaky efficient”.

Comparison Strategy

I’ve been guilty of switching razors too frequently – sometimes alternating razors every shave (on the same blade cycle). Other times, I’ve run through one blade cycle (3 shaves, for me) before switching razors, with the razor switch employing the same blade model (fresh blade). The past two weeks, I began to enforce a bit more discipline – shaving exclusively with the Athena and my “safe” blade – the Personna Platinum Chrome.

This discipline has a downside, as I’m finding that the Athena may be a bit spicey for me as a daily driver. After 2-3 daily (24 hour) shaves, my face begins to feel a bit “beat up”. The first shave enthusiasm begins to die down.

I’m leaning toward the best experimental protocol entailing taking each razor on its own terms with respect to all variables, specifically blade selection and shaving frequency. I think the Athena is 36-48 hour shaver for me.

Staying with one razor over a period of a week (or a month) still makes sense. In the final analysis, I might learn that razor “A” is a once a week shaver for me, but that’s for later.

Blade Choices

This is another case of taking each razor on its own terms, rather than going for a universal blade. While the Personna may not be optimal for all the razors I’ve used, it’s in the ballpark with all of them, but it’s time to get more specific.

I’m finding that blade choices can help one razor mimic another – at least with the range of razors I’ve used to this point. This is inconclusive, but for now, I’d loosely equate the Overlander/Nacet experience to shaving with an Athena/Personna. The comparison isn’t perfect, but I think you get the idea.

Optimal Interval

I’m on a parallel path with @T Bone in this regard. I’m finding a 36-hour interval seems to be a sweet spot in terms of optimizing closeness, recovery, and stubble. Putting this in context, at the 12-hour point (perhaps more) my stubble is the equivalent of a fresh shave with my Mach III cartridge.

Stated another way, it’s hard to justify shaving at 24 hours., although I’ve found it possible with some razor/blade combos. So far, the Athena requires more recovery time than the Overlander, and the Tatara is too fresh to arrive at any conclusion.

I dislike this extended (36 hour) interval, because I’m getting fewer reps to hone my skills. I may be missing something, and I’ll watch this closely.

Other Variables

I’m leaning more and more toward Haslingers Shafmilch with each passing month. The Cella Red is nice, but the Haslingers is better. I’m not much into smells, so I’ve not played with much else.

Post shave is a cold water splash, witch hazel, and Weleda Skin Food. I was using alum, and/or Thayers witch hazel with aloe vera, but I’ve moved toward some inexpensive witch hazel from Amazon, which has a small percentage of alcohol. The alcohol helps with feedback and antiseptic, and the Weleeda Skin food covers skin restoration duties.

Enough for one post.

... Thom

 

[APBinNCA]

I may have said it before, but it sounds like it's time to find a milder default blade. There is nothing wrong with a PPC, but you can go milder if you want to shave every day. Then again, that might introduce an unwelcome variable now...

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

Taking @T Bone's advice, I set the Muramasa to 2 and shaved with a fresh Perma-Sharp. First thought - how am I feeling the blade?!?!? It is like the Athena, I swear I can.

Tatara Muramasa at 2 - gap = 0.70mm / exposure = negative 0.07mm​

The 3-pass shave was very comfortable, ATG was exceptionally smooth and easy. I did 2 ATG passes in several places. It felt so safe and mild, I had to do all I could to not add pressure. I somehow succeeded. No weepers and no astringent feedback at all. The shave quality result is around an 8.5 (BBS on 60%+).

I'm liking the Muramasa. It is amazing that a negative exposure can get me to BBS in most places, but somehow it does. It is really well made too.

Yup ... exactly why I've been having difficulty articulating differences between the "big three". I view this as a good thing, as it certainly expands our choices - as long as we don't get wrapped around the axle because of it

I may have said it before, but it sounds like it's time to find a milder default blade. There is nothing wrong with a PPC, but you can go milder if you want to shave every day. Then again, that might introduce an unwelcome variable now...

I've been pondering what might be milder (without tugging) than a Personna. Any thoughts? The crowd over here tends to talk much more about the sharper end of the spectrum.

.. Thom

 

[thombrogan]

If you don’t shower before shaving, the Shark Platinum is pretty good in the brass Overlander. If you do shower before shaving, other choices open. I like a fresh Loi Titanium for a post-shower shave even though it’s not a particularly sharp blade. A light touch and a wet lather fuel the magic.

 

[APBinNCA]

I've been pondering what might be milder (without tugging) than a Personna. Any thoughts? The crowd over here tends to talk much more about the sharper end of the spectrum.

This is definitely in my wheelhouse, lets see... first thing that comes to mind is Dorco Titan. I have a bunch of Indian blades that I use like the Gillette Wilkinson Sword and the above mentioned Lord blades(Platinum Class, etc). Treet 7 days I like better than all but the Titan, they are equal for me. Other options include Treet Classic or Falcon carbon blades, they are really nice. Dura Sharp isn't going to be any milder than your existing blade choice. What am I forgetting... I left out any of the RU blades due to uncertain availability and there are some nice CN blades that I have used(it's a bit of a lucky guess). I still have piles of Astra Greens and I still like them just fine, the current batches seem sharp enough not to tug.

 

[T Bone]

Taking @T Bone's advice, I set the Muramasa to 2 and shaved with a fresh Perma-Sharp. First thought - how am I feeling the blade?!?!? It is like the Athena, I swear I can.

Tatara Muramasa at 2 - gap = 0.70mm / exposure = negative 0.07mm​

The 3-pass shave was very comfortable, ATG was exceptionally smooth and easy. I did 2 ATG passes in several places. It felt so safe and mild, I had to do all I could to not add pressure. I somehow succeeded. No weepers and no astringent feedback at all. The shave quality result is around an 8.5 (BBS on 60%+).

I'm liking the Muramasa. It is amazing that a negative exposure can get me to BBS in most places, but somehow it does. It is really well made too.

That’s an awesome result! Some of these neutral and even negative exposure razors are, as @Galibier_Numero_Un put it well, “sneaky efficient”. I’m not sure how they do it. Sounds like that setting puts it right between the Masadachi and full Masamune.

I’ve never tried an adjustable myself, but I was wondering when I had my first run at the Tataras if I’d find myself preferring Masadachi for the most part, but the full Masamune in my more weeper-prone areas (mustache, goatee), thus opening the door to an adjustable. I like both fixed-blade combos well enough to try them again, but I suppose my first trials didn’t eliminate that possibility either.

 

[T Bone]

I’m finding that the Athena may be a bit spicey for me as a daily driver. After 2-3 daily (24 hour) shaves, my face begins to feel a bit “beat up”. The first shave enthusiasm begins to die down.

I didn’t have time this weekend to post, but I fit in a quick shave on Saturday at 24 hours or so after my last one. Got a weeper on both mustache corners, and a few hours of minor discomfort. I’m assuming that the disparity in results was due to the shave interval, but I’ll have a better idea after I shave at 48+ hours later today. It wasn’t bad, but I don’t know how daily shavers do it. I’m not ready to change it up yet, but it makes me start to wonder if I should go to straight-up every other day rather than 4/week.

Blade Choices

This is another case of taking each razor on its own terms, rather than going for a universal blade. While the Personna may not be optimal for all the razors I’ve used, it’s in the ballpark with all of them, but it’s time to get more specific.

That’s what I was going for by using each razor with my go-to Nacet and one other blade that I thought would be a good match for the razor. But so far, none of my second blades outperformed the Nacet. But that might be because apart from Blackbird, all my razors are pretty similar - well clamped, mild, and low exposure.

For milder blades, I do quite like the Indian Wilkies as @APBinNCA suggested. Also Sharks as @thombrogan suggested (ISTR preferring the stainless or chrome, but it's been awhile), and the oft-maligned RK stainless.

I dislike this extended (36 hour) interval, because I’m getting fewer reps to hone my skills. I may be missing something, and I’ll watch this closely.

I know right!? That’s one of the hardest things - you identify something you want to improve, but you have to wait 24-48 hours to try again!

Enough for one post.

Appreciate hearing how things are going for you, especially since we seem to be gravitating toward similar razors. Do keep us updated!