What Handgun to Buy ? Deacon.........
- Thread starter Trudo1
- Start date
I have not read all the replies, but here is a little advice IMO.
Revolver versus Semi-Auto
Preference. Revolver are dead reliable. You can also get one small enough for concealed carry easier than an semi. But, looking at semi's, if you get one of the big 5, as my dad called it, you don't have to worry about reliability. I recommend either a Beretta or Glock. This is mostly going to depend on which feels right in your hand. I own a beretta. Actually, a Taurus PT-92. It is the exact same gun but at least a hundred dollars cheaper.
I like the 9mm. This is a cheap round, which is important for target shooting. It is also a fair round for taking someone down, which is the point of self-defense. Use copper-jacketed hollow points. This will do more damage, but not go clean through causing more concerns.
One last thing. My dad was a police officer. When he went through the academy, I was around the age of your son. They advised the cadets to let their children play with their weapons any time we asked. Reason one was, you use every one of these moments to demonstrate and make them demonstrate safety precautions, like checking the chamber even though you watch the person handing it to you check it. Reason two, when you're not there, they have no curiosity and will leave it alone. To this day, I carry out all of the safety precautions without realizing it. People have asked me why I did something and I hadn't even noticed I had done it. And for the record, I always knew where dad's loaded sidearm and back-up pistol were (the back-up weapon was in the drawer next to the bed) but I never once touched it without permission. Then again, that might be because he led e to believe he would use it on me. AND HE WOULD HAVE!
Revolver versus Semi-Auto
Preference. Revolver are dead reliable. You can also get one small enough for concealed carry easier than an semi. But, looking at semi's, if you get one of the big 5, as my dad called it, you don't have to worry about reliability. I recommend either a Beretta or Glock. This is mostly going to depend on which feels right in your hand. I own a beretta. Actually, a Taurus PT-92. It is the exact same gun but at least a hundred dollars cheaper.
I like the 9mm. This is a cheap round, which is important for target shooting. It is also a fair round for taking someone down, which is the point of self-defense. Use copper-jacketed hollow points. This will do more damage, but not go clean through causing more concerns.
One last thing. My dad was a police officer. When he went through the academy, I was around the age of your son. They advised the cadets to let their children play with their weapons any time we asked. Reason one was, you use every one of these moments to demonstrate and make them demonstrate safety precautions, like checking the chamber even though you watch the person handing it to you check it. Reason two, when you're not there, they have no curiosity and will leave it alone. To this day, I carry out all of the safety precautions without realizing it. People have asked me why I did something and I hadn't even noticed I had done it. And for the record, I always knew where dad's loaded sidearm and back-up pistol were (the back-up weapon was in the drawer next to the bed) but I never once touched it without permission. Then again, that might be because he led e to believe he would use it on me. AND HE WOULD HAVE!
I'm mostly ignorant in the ways of firearms--my wife has actually forgotten more than I know about them. What I *can* add, though, is that, if you are married, make sure that your wife is just as comfortable (and capable) with your choice for home defense as you are.
I own a glock 17, and a 34. I also have a Para Ordnance 14/45. I am a big 1911 fan and have owned and carried a few different variants. You can have the reliability of the glocks they will always fire and they will feed any ammo you choose. Some 1911's are picky about he hollow points that you put through them but that is easily remedied with some emry cloth. They also make a .22 conversion kit for the 4" and 5" 1911. This will cut the cost of shooting down. And practicing with the same grip all the time will increase your accuracy. This brings me to my next point. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. If you are going to have it in a lock box by your bed. Practice getting to it. Hitting the buttons in the dark. Lay down in Bed and then try to get it open in a hurry. If you stumble through it do it again but slower. Pick up speed as you get better at it. Learn to draw it from a holster if you are going to carry it. When I was in Law Enforcement, I did 25 presentations from my holster everyday before walking out of the door. Shooting is a perishable skill so make sure you get out and shoot as often as possible. Take your son to a class and then let him shoot your gun.
Just my 2 cents
I'm late to this topic and I have not read everything, but wanted to chime in and say what handgun I like. I'm very far from being an expert and this is just my experience.
I have an entire three handguns in my "collection" at this moment. I don't "carry" them around except when I'm outside city limits at a friend's farm making noise and putting holes in paper, wooden boards, empty tins, etc. My main purpose for having them is mainly for just shooting, and WWII Reenacting, they can be used for defence if need be, but I hope not.
The first is a Post-WWII Commercial Webley & Scott Mk. IV Revolver in .380" calibre (aka .38 S&W or .380"/200). Being 3rd generation English-American, I had to have a Webley, can't explain it really, love this revolver. Ammunition for this one is fairly spendy, so that has got me into reloading, need less to say, this is mainly for the "collection" because I wanted a Webley.
My next revolver is also a .380" Calibre revolver (once again, aka .38 S&W or .380"/200). This one is a S&W M&P "Victory Model" Revolver from WWII that was made for British Forces. This one I got for the "collection" and WWII Reenacting. I love this revolver as well, but as with the Webley, ammo is spendy and a bit under-powdered by today's standards. I would not buy this one for home/self defence. Not because it is not a good revolver, I'll get to that in a minute, but because of the cartridge it fires.
Now, the last revolver I have is basically the same as the last one I mentioned, but it is loaded in the more powerful and much more common .38 Special Calibre.
This one is the S&W M&P Model 10 .38 Special Revolver. I think these have been around since circa 1898-ish? and still being made today, that might say something.
The S&W M&P Model 10 I have is a mid-1960's era Model 10-5, it has a standard weight 4" barrel, I think I paid arond $175 (U.S.) a few years back. I really love this revolver, not too small, not too large, not bad at all with recoil, but just enough to instill in me a feeling of being grateful to be behind the sights and not the other way around...LOL, if that made sense? I'm glad this was my first handgun.
The only thing I wish it could do, would be able to fire the .357 Magnum cartridge, but that is not life or death. I intend to buy a .357 Magnum to have for backpacking one of these days, but that can wait.
I don't think I gave any useful information, other than what I like, but had fun posting anyway. Thanks for letting me ramble on..LOL.
Cheers
Mark
I have an entire three handguns in my "collection" at this moment. I don't "carry" them around except when I'm outside city limits at a friend's farm making noise and putting holes in paper, wooden boards, empty tins, etc. My main purpose for having them is mainly for just shooting, and WWII Reenacting, they can be used for defence if need be, but I hope not.
The first is a Post-WWII Commercial Webley & Scott Mk. IV Revolver in .380" calibre (aka .38 S&W or .380"/200). Being 3rd generation English-American, I had to have a Webley, can't explain it really, love this revolver. Ammunition for this one is fairly spendy, so that has got me into reloading, need less to say, this is mainly for the "collection" because I wanted a Webley.
My next revolver is also a .380" Calibre revolver (once again, aka .38 S&W or .380"/200). This one is a S&W M&P "Victory Model" Revolver from WWII that was made for British Forces. This one I got for the "collection" and WWII Reenacting. I love this revolver as well, but as with the Webley, ammo is spendy and a bit under-powdered by today's standards. I would not buy this one for home/self defence. Not because it is not a good revolver, I'll get to that in a minute, but because of the cartridge it fires.
Now, the last revolver I have is basically the same as the last one I mentioned, but it is loaded in the more powerful and much more common .38 Special Calibre.
This one is the S&W M&P Model 10 .38 Special Revolver. I think these have been around since circa 1898-ish? and still being made today, that might say something.
The S&W M&P Model 10 I have is a mid-1960's era Model 10-5, it has a standard weight 4" barrel, I think I paid arond $175 (U.S.) a few years back. I really love this revolver, not too small, not too large, not bad at all with recoil, but just enough to instill in me a feeling of being grateful to be behind the sights and not the other way around...LOL, if that made sense? I'm glad this was my first handgun.
The only thing I wish it could do, would be able to fire the .357 Magnum cartridge, but that is not life or death. I intend to buy a .357 Magnum to have for backpacking one of these days, but that can wait.
I don't think I gave any useful information, other than what I like, but had fun posting anyway. Thanks for letting me ramble on..LOL.
Cheers
Mark
Well,
I like the Springfield XD and even more the XDM's....hope they have the .45 version out soon.
I know most of the armed forces (US) carry Beretta M9's...a good weapon, of course....but my outfit and a few others I know of have SiG Sauer handguns instead, M-11s. Pretty sure that's a P228 but not positive;
No safety, and a decocker, double action. The weapon will fire if the trigger is pulled, but only if the trigger is pulled.
Of course, if you don't intend to shoot something, your finger has no business inside the trigger guard...and if you do, and it's a person...odds are your LIFE would depend on remembering to take the safety off first. So I can see the logic of it.
planning to make a purchase myself in the near future but am sitting the fence on what to get, of course. I have some knowledge and opinions, but its different once the cash is leaving the wallet, and the weapon isn't issued to you, and exactly the same as the ones given to your buddies.
Went to a gun show today; was wondering if anyone knew anything about the FNH 5.7mm handgun rounds? I know nothing about them other than the manufacturer is respected.
info would be appreciated.
John P.
I like the Springfield XD and even more the XDM's....hope they have the .45 version out soon.
I know most of the armed forces (US) carry Beretta M9's...a good weapon, of course....but my outfit and a few others I know of have SiG Sauer handguns instead, M-11s. Pretty sure that's a P228 but not positive;
No safety, and a decocker, double action. The weapon will fire if the trigger is pulled, but only if the trigger is pulled.
Of course, if you don't intend to shoot something, your finger has no business inside the trigger guard...and if you do, and it's a person...odds are your LIFE would depend on remembering to take the safety off first. So I can see the logic of it.
planning to make a purchase myself in the near future but am sitting the fence on what to get, of course. I have some knowledge and opinions, but its different once the cash is leaving the wallet, and the weapon isn't issued to you, and exactly the same as the ones given to your buddies.
Went to a gun show today; was wondering if anyone knew anything about the FNH 5.7mm handgun rounds? I know nothing about them other than the manufacturer is respected.
info would be appreciated.
John P.
I think if you just accept the fact that you'll eventually get more than one handgun, it'll take some of the pressure off you for this decision.
The choice is largely a personal one.... there are so many options.
My random thoughts, FWIW.
1) A revolver would be a good first choice. Very reliable. S&W is a great choice.
2) Don't go too big. Lots of guys want a massive handgun for some reason. A medium frame is fine.
3) If your gun is locked in the safe, it's pretty worthless for home defense. So either accept that fact, or make it more accessible. They make small handgun safes that can be mounted in your bedroom, and can access within seconds.
The choice is largely a personal one.... there are so many options.
My random thoughts, FWIW.
1) A revolver would be a good first choice. Very reliable. S&W is a great choice.
2) Don't go too big. Lots of guys want a massive handgun for some reason. A medium frame is fine.
3) If your gun is locked in the safe, it's pretty worthless for home defense. So either accept that fact, or make it more accessible. They make small handgun safes that can be mounted in your bedroom, and can access within seconds.
Hi John, I remember when they were performing the trials to decide what the military issue sidearm would be. I remember because I was serving at this time. It was common knowledge at the time that most everyone preferred the sig 226, but the Beretta won out because of it's lower cost and the fact that the weapon had to be produced in the US. Beretta was in a better position to do this than Sig, so they won out.
I'm not saying that the M9 isn't a fine weapon, it's definitely proven itself in service..
Steve
I'm not saying that the M9 isn't a fine weapon, it's definitely proven itself in service..
Steve
Good advice. I befriended an ex-navy seal, after my discharge, strangely enough....Anyway, I asked him what his pistola of choice would be if the sh*t hit the fan...I was surprised when he said he'd choose a .357 revolver. I was expecting him to like one of the space aged polymer framed autos.
His reason was that revolvers almost never malfunction, and are for the most part, dead nuts reliable.
Steve
His reason was that revolvers almost never malfunction, and are for the most part, dead nuts reliable.
Steve
There are basically 5 calibers that will never let you down (i.e. any shop that sells handgun ammo will have them and they have been proven to work); 9x19mm (or Parabellem or Luger), .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum (and .38 Special accordingly), and .44 Remington Magnum*. .357 and .44 are wheelgun calibers and the other three are semi-automatic pistol calibers. The "9 vs. .45" debate will wage on forever, so whatever works for you, use it! I personally like 9mm, as I can get back on target faster than with .45 and I have higher capacity. Like Clint Smith said, "a .357 Magnum miss is still a miss."
Now, moving onto the handguns, themselves. There is a reason why some brands are famous. They work. HK, SIG, S&W, Colt, GLOCK, Walther, Beretta, and others are all very good brands. However, you will pay for the name. Ruger is a very good manufacturer of revolvers that is not as often heard. Kimber and Springfield are two very good companies that make entry level 1911-style handguns. FN Herstal is an extremely good brand that is almost unheard of, even in the gun world, yet they make many of the weapons used by the U.S. military, including the MG58 and the SAW M249.
To be honest, the number of good brands out there is almost mind-boggling and they all feel a little different. So, with that in mind, the course I recommend is to go to a good shop with a good variety and shoot a bunch of different models. Which ones feel good and shoot good? Don't worry about price at this point. If you find out that you shoot a SIG best, but the price tag is a little scary, you can find used ones for almost half-off of new that will shoot just as good. My only recommendation can be to avoid certain brands, namely Hi-Point, Lorcin, Raven, Jennings, Davis, Taurus, and Kel-Tec. Most of these guns are pure garbage. Some, like Kel-Tec and Taurus are okay, but people have reported more malfunctions with these brands than is average. What seems to happen is that Quality Control is hit-or-miss. The good ones are really good, but the bad ones are really bad. There are too many things to learn when first shooting a handgun to also wonder whether or not any flaws or poor results are being caused by bad equipment.
*NOTE: The author does not imply that these are the only effective calibers, only that these are the most popular calibers. There are many other options out there that can be just as (or more) effective (10mm, .41 Rem., 5.7mm, .380 ACP, 7.62x25 Tokarev, .50 AE, .500 S&W Magnum, etc., etc.), but these 5 can be found almost anywhere.
Now, moving onto the handguns, themselves. There is a reason why some brands are famous. They work. HK, SIG, S&W, Colt, GLOCK, Walther, Beretta, and others are all very good brands. However, you will pay for the name. Ruger is a very good manufacturer of revolvers that is not as often heard. Kimber and Springfield are two very good companies that make entry level 1911-style handguns. FN Herstal is an extremely good brand that is almost unheard of, even in the gun world, yet they make many of the weapons used by the U.S. military, including the MG58 and the SAW M249.
To be honest, the number of good brands out there is almost mind-boggling and they all feel a little different. So, with that in mind, the course I recommend is to go to a good shop with a good variety and shoot a bunch of different models. Which ones feel good and shoot good? Don't worry about price at this point. If you find out that you shoot a SIG best, but the price tag is a little scary, you can find used ones for almost half-off of new that will shoot just as good. My only recommendation can be to avoid certain brands, namely Hi-Point, Lorcin, Raven, Jennings, Davis, Taurus, and Kel-Tec. Most of these guns are pure garbage. Some, like Kel-Tec and Taurus are okay, but people have reported more malfunctions with these brands than is average. What seems to happen is that Quality Control is hit-or-miss. The good ones are really good, but the bad ones are really bad. There are too many things to learn when first shooting a handgun to also wonder whether or not any flaws or poor results are being caused by bad equipment.
*NOTE: The author does not imply that these are the only effective calibers, only that these are the most popular calibers. There are many other options out there that can be just as (or more) effective (10mm, .41 Rem., 5.7mm, .380 ACP, 7.62x25 Tokarev, .50 AE, .500 S&W Magnum, etc., etc.), but these 5 can be found almost anywhere.
A lot of varied advice in this thread. Some good, some bad, some even worse.
Really bad advice:
1) 410 shotty for Self defense.
2) Bird shot for Self defense. Bird shot is for birdies, not thugs whose intent is to end your life or doing bodily harm to you, your GF/Wife/child.
3) Frangible bullets (Glasers). Other than in a shotgun, taking locks off doors for dynamic entries, these are, well not to put too fine a point on it, Stupid.
Bad Advice:
1) Pistol grip shotgun. No offense to the guy(s?) who recommended this, but you do still have to aim a shotgun. While a PG has a degree of "looks-cool", get a real stock.
2) A shotgun being 'racked' will scare off anyone. Want to bet? If you're picking up a gun, you best be prepared to use it, and use it quickly.
Good Advice:
1) Train - There are a lot of fine firearms out there, but even the best gun will only do what you tell it to. If you can't command your body to react properly, no weapon in the world is going to help you.
2) Try before you buy - Guns aren't cheap (scratch that, Good guns, aren't cheap). Go to a range, rent a few different models and see what works for you. For example. Glock makes a fine gun. I'm not bashing them, but they're just not for me. Grip angle is all off. Again, that is for me. Your mileage WILL vary. Take some on a test drive, then commit to training.
3) Kids - Train them as well. One does not "Drown proof" a child by keeping them away from water. You teach them to swim. Same idea here.
4) Get to know a good gun/self-defense lawyer ahead of time. Put them on speed dial on your home phones, and cell.
5) If, "God forbid" you ever have to use your weapon, NEVER speak to the police. Tell them you want to cooperate, were afraid for your life, but you are too shaken up at the moment and must speak to your attorney first. You'll want to chat, you'll want to explain yourself and justify what just happened. You must stomp that impulse into the ground. The sad truth is police are NOT your friends, they are there to put butts in cells and don't mind if it is yours. Think I'm being "paranoid"? Ask a cop what his Union tells them to do when they're involved in a shooting.
6) Shotguns are great for home defense, providing they are 12-gauge and loaded up with 00 buck shot.
7) Keep it loaded and ready to go. You have nothing more than an expensive club in your hand if the gun is unloaded in the bedroom and the bullets are locked in a case in the closet by the front door.
8) If your state allows it, get your carry permit and treat your firearm like your American Express card. "Don't leave home without it"
___________________
Personally, I carry a Springfield 1911 daily, and keep it on my bed's headboard at night.
Really bad advice:
1) 410 shotty for Self defense.
2) Bird shot for Self defense. Bird shot is for birdies, not thugs whose intent is to end your life or doing bodily harm to you, your GF/Wife/child.
3) Frangible bullets (Glasers). Other than in a shotgun, taking locks off doors for dynamic entries, these are, well not to put too fine a point on it, Stupid.
Bad Advice:
1) Pistol grip shotgun. No offense to the guy(s?) who recommended this, but you do still have to aim a shotgun. While a PG has a degree of "looks-cool", get a real stock.
2) A shotgun being 'racked' will scare off anyone. Want to bet? If you're picking up a gun, you best be prepared to use it, and use it quickly.
Good Advice:
1) Train - There are a lot of fine firearms out there, but even the best gun will only do what you tell it to. If you can't command your body to react properly, no weapon in the world is going to help you.
2) Try before you buy - Guns aren't cheap (scratch that, Good guns, aren't cheap). Go to a range, rent a few different models and see what works for you. For example. Glock makes a fine gun. I'm not bashing them, but they're just not for me. Grip angle is all off. Again, that is for me. Your mileage WILL vary. Take some on a test drive, then commit to training.
3) Kids - Train them as well. One does not "Drown proof" a child by keeping them away from water. You teach them to swim. Same idea here.
4) Get to know a good gun/self-defense lawyer ahead of time. Put them on speed dial on your home phones, and cell.
5) If, "God forbid" you ever have to use your weapon, NEVER speak to the police. Tell them you want to cooperate, were afraid for your life, but you are too shaken up at the moment and must speak to your attorney first. You'll want to chat, you'll want to explain yourself and justify what just happened. You must stomp that impulse into the ground. The sad truth is police are NOT your friends, they are there to put butts in cells and don't mind if it is yours. Think I'm being "paranoid"? Ask a cop what his Union tells them to do when they're involved in a shooting.
6) Shotguns are great for home defense, providing they are 12-gauge and loaded up with 00 buck shot.
7) Keep it loaded and ready to go. You have nothing more than an expensive club in your hand if the gun is unloaded in the bedroom and the bullets are locked in a case in the closet by the front door.
8) If your state allows it, get your carry permit and treat your firearm like your American Express card. "Don't leave home without it"
___________________
Personally, I carry a Springfield 1911 daily, and keep it on my bed's headboard at night.
Excellent advice MrGalt.
The part about never speaking to the cops is very important.
If you're unconvinced of this, and have some time, here are a couple videos that will convince you.
"In a brilliant pair of videos, , Prof. James Duane of the Regent University School of Law and Officer George Bruch of the Virginia Beach Police Department present a forceful case for never, ever, ever speaking to the police without your lawyer present. Ever. Never, never, never"
The part about never speaking to the cops is very important.
If you're unconvinced of this, and have some time, here are a couple videos that will convince you.
"In a brilliant pair of videos, , Prof. James Duane of the Regent University School of Law and Officer George Bruch of the Virginia Beach Police Department present a forceful case for never, ever, ever speaking to the police without your lawyer present. Ever. Never, never, never"
JG, excellent advice all around.
I agree with everything you said, except I'd open the above statement to include 20 gauge shotguns and #1, 0, and 000 buckshot as well as slugs.
Mazeman posted an excellent video that I'd recommend everyone watch, regardless of their views on guns.
If I ever find myself in the aftermath of a self defense shooting I will call 911, say "Please send an ambulance to (my location), a person has been shot." I will then call my lawyer while I wait for the police to arrive. When they do I will cooperate but refuse to answer any questions until my lawyer arrives and I speak to him.
Steve, I think you might be right. I know ours are M11's, but they might in fact be P226's. Pretty sure ours were hand me downs from one of the SEAL teams who were probably getting some new space gun (we had 1911's before that....everyone else had M9's). I think most of them I saw over there (2 tours so far) also still carry SiGs, while Army types have that sweet Mk23.
SiGs are great except most of the "Gucci" gear available for private purchase over there is keyed to the much more common M9. Anyway, 'nuff about work guns, I'm looking for something for myself at this point, which opens up a lot more possibilities. The same company which makes our M240's, M249's, and the new Winchester model 70's...all excellent firearms...is making a sidearm as well as a subgun in 5.7, but apparently I wasn't paying attention when the round came out and as a result know very little about it or its performance. Anyone with knowledge or experience feel free to speak up...
Otherwise, the XDM in 9...carries 19+1 rounds, not sure if .40 is that much better or not, or even if I should wait for the XDM .45...
or get something else entirely. I'm not made of money or I'd just get several...
Also considering something suppressed (that's legal where I live, although the federal red tape hoops still have to be complied with) just for the fun of it.
I'm rambling. Any info about the 5.7 rounds is welcome...I'm very curious about it and it's performance.
John P.
FNs new round is a little hotter than a .22 Magnum. Designed for rear eschelon/handgun usage. Ive heard mixed reviews on it's accuracy.
Very very cool pistola, JohnP. I've liked these since they were first announced; definitely wouldn't want to be on the bidness end of this beast:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBtvpkqYB4E[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov8lQgDlgeE&feature=channel[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN34XWXDbK8&feature=channel[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wSHkIQEAuU&feature=channel[/YOUTUBE]
Steve
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBtvpkqYB4E[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov8lQgDlgeE&feature=channel[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN34XWXDbK8&feature=channel[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wSHkIQEAuU&feature=channel[/YOUTUBE]
Steve
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If you buy the 5.7mm, you'll also be buying a reloading press before too long. It's pretty expensive, around $0.50/shot. In terms of terminal ballistics, I've heard mixed reviews. It's got a lot of energy, and it penetrates well. In fact, some say it penetrates a little too well and is prone to over-penetration. It's a good round, but it isn't something I would carry. There just really isn't enough info out about it yet.
I also read somewhere that the best loading of 5.7mm is not sold to civilians. Might want to check up on that.
The military loading, designed to defeat body armor, is not available to civilians in the US.
