Titanium vs Stainless Steel Pricing

[Wgg2017]

From browsing various razor manufacturer websites and building razors for fun, I've noticed that titanium usually means a significant price increase. However, with Timeless razors this isn't the case.

A matte SS oc razor with scalloped top cap is $230. The same razor in titanium is only $260. Is there something about Timeless' manufacturing process that allows them to charge nearly the same price for both metals?

This thread is what caused me to even notice this in the first place What are your favorite mild yet efficient open comb razors? - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/what-are-your-favorite-mild-yet-efficient-open-comb-razors.650200/. I knew the titanium would be above his budget, but thought a SS oc would be within range. Then I built a SS oc razor and it was nearly the same price as the titanium. I was very surprised.

It might take a company insider to know the real answer but I'm just curious what might be the reason a Timeless SS and titanium razor are so close in price when nearly everyone else charges a significant premium for titanium.

 

[Iridian]

I dare to say it is the opportunity to charge on top of the extra charge that makes titanium attractive nowadays.
Just like Aluminum razors suddenly creep closer in price to Stainless Steel for some makers.

 

[horizon]

Titanium, like steel, has many variations that determine quality and price. While with steel, it is almost always mentioned what exactly is used to make the razor, this is not the case with titanium. It just says tititan and that's it. But this is often low-quality, mid-level material at best, but not the highest quality.
So until they start detailing exactly what titanium alloy is used to make the istroment, it's just a marketing gimmick.

 

[Mr Konrad Dundee]

Just like Aluminum razors suddenly creep closer in price to Stainless Steel for some makers.

I agree, paying for an aluminum razor like a steel one is madness today

 

[Mr. Shavington]

Titanium, like steel, has many variations that determine quality and price. While with steel, it is almost always mentioned what exactly is used to make the razor, this is not the case with titanium. It just says tititan and that's it. But this is often low-quality, mid-level material at best, but not the highest quality.
So until they start detailing exactly what titanium alloy is used to make the istroment, it's just a marketing gimmick.

Does it matter what quality the metal is? I doubt that much of the razor cost is raw material. And it’s only a razor, so even cheap plastic is more than strong enough for the application. I find it odd sometimes when people debate the relative virtues of 303 and 316L steel or grade 5 titanium, when it’s only for a razor blade holder.

 

[wetshaver233]

I've only heard manufacturers giving their thoughts and reasons as to why their razors cost too much, but I've never heard the argument when the prices are very affordable.

A few days ago I was showing a friend some pictures of high end razors and he was very confused as to why they are so expensive, because as he put it - ''they are just small metal pieces that go together and they were meant only to hold blades in them and nothing else''. He even said that some of the razors I showed him cost just as much as a high quality survival knife that took way more skill, labor and hard work to be made.

I enjoy using both my titanium and stainless steel razors and I try not to think too much about how were they made and are they really overpriced or not.

 

[ERS4]

316 stainless steel is more difficult to process than other common 400 series stainless steel, thus increasing the selling price.

The titanium alloy commonly used by razor brands such as Timeless is Titanium Grade 5 / 6Al4V. This is not low-grade titanium, but a combination with quite excellent performance.

Titanium Grade 5/6Al4V will produce stickiness and damage the CNC head during processing, so it must be processed at a slow speed, which makes its working time and processing difficulty significantly higher than that of 316 steel, and the price of the finished product is also more expensive.

The solution Timeless came up with was to use WEDM to cut the razor head. This is an advanced wire cutting technology that is still quite expensive, but can reduce the friction in the CNC machining process, which is reflected in the cost.

The shape of their razor head is specially designed for WEDM processing, which is why it is so special.

 

[Cino]

There is a SS Swiss razor selling for $1000, and there's a waiting list. I don't try to make sense of any of this.

 

[Wgg2017]

316 stainless steel is more difficult to process than other common 400 series stainless steel, thus increasing the selling price.

The titanium alloy commonly used by razor brands such as Timeless is Titanium Grade 5 / 6Al4V. This is not low-grade titanium, but a combination with quite excellent performance.

Titanium Grade 5/6Al4V will produce stickiness and damage the CNC head during processing, so it must be processed at a slow speed, which makes its working time and processing difficulty significantly higher than that of 316 steel, and the price of the finished product is also more expensive.

The solution Timeless came up with was to use WEDM to cut the razor head. This is an advanced wire cutting technology that is still quite expensive, but can reduce the friction in the CNC machining process, which is reflected in the cost.

The shape of their razor head is specially designed for WEDM processing, which is why it is so special.

Thanks for the great, detailed response. I appreciate it very much and it answers my question as to why Timeless titanium razors seem so inexpensive (relatively speaking) when compared to other titanium razors.

 

[ewk]

Just like Aluminum razors suddenly creep closer in price to Stainless Steel for some makers.

I wonder how much the cost of annodizing is proportional to the added price of an aluminum razor.

 

[Iridian]

I wonder how much the cost of annodizing is proportional to the added price of an aluminum razor.

I read someone answer this at "Practical Machinist", which reminded me of the late @Rosseforp whom I would probably shoot that question... oh well.

But here it is, fullquote: "$0.025 to $0.05 per inch" (and a lot of 100-150 pieces minimum)
It's way more complex. I read quite some articles what affects the cost, they just didn't bother to give some estimations, particularly not for an object like a razor.

 

[DesertIguana]

Titanium verses, Stainless the Ti base material is more expensive.

Also Ti is tougher to machine, plus it is harder on tooling then Dtainless.

 

[Iridian]

I don't think the question was that titanium is harder to machine and aluminum easier, that polishing costs more than bead blasting etc... or that things get more expensive in general depending on the economy etc...

But rather that some companies charge quite a bit extra on the necessary extra.
It's not uncommon that the best/premium model costs a bit more than the others besides the added costs and effort involved, on the other hand.

 

[Wgg2017]

I don't think the question was that titanium is harder to machine and aluminum easier, that polishing costs more than bead blasting etc... or that things get more expensive in general depending on the economy etc...

But rather that some companies charge quite a bit extra on the necessary extra.
It's not uncommon that the best/premium model costs a bit more than the others besides the added costs and effort involved, on the other hand.

Yes, this. It seems based on @ERS4 response that Timeless is able to keep the cost down on their titanium razors due to the manufacturing method they chose. Whereas others have a process that isn't as efficient with titanium or they may even be renting time on machines owned by others.

I was just struck by how close Timeless SS and titanium razors are in price when most others have a significant markup for titanium. It seemed odd to me and I wanted to learn more.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I was initially surprised when Rocnel introduced a couple hybrid models: SS and titanium and the prices were considerably lower. I’ve read they aren’t quite as refined, but still, that caught me off guard..

 

[Wombat ESQ]

Probably using recycled body bone implants

 

[Iridian]

I was initially surprised when Rocnel introduced a couple hybrid models: SS and titanium and the prices were considerably lower. I’ve read they aren’t quite as refined, but still, that caught me off guard..

To be blunt, Rocnel tried and succeeded in selling very high, seems they now want to sell some more with a lower profit margin and lowered prices accordingly.

 

[Phoenixkh]

To be blunt, Rocnel tried and succeeded in selling very high, seems they now want to sell some more with a lower profit margin and lowered prices accordingly.

I don't know Rocnel well enough to know.... I have a SS 2022 Elite, which I love. I did buy it because it was so much less expensive than a Sailor.

 

[Wgg2017]

Probably using recycled body bone implants

I kind of wondered if Timeless had another business that required large amounts of titanium and were using the scraps to make razors. I never considered bone implants though (j/k, obviously)

 

[ERS4]

I kind of wondered if Timeless had another business that required large amounts of titanium and were using the scraps to make razors. I never considered bone implants though (j/k, obviously)

In addition to TIMELESS brand razors, several brothers and their father in the Timura family mainly operate the "Triaxis Machine & Tool" machine shop, specializing in machining and plastic molding, and accept manufacturing commissions from companies.
Timeless even produces its own famous blue shaving bowl. Such diversified manufacturing is something that many individual razor workshops cannot complete alone.

Because they are both designers and professional manufacturers, they can stock enough titanium/stainless steel/copper and other materials and effectively match the terminal selling price. Razors are not made from scrap materials.