Stoked to 'hopefully' figure out a coticule

[Dilbone]

You'll get it figured out. I have a stone that looks similar to yours, and I bought it from the same place, so I'm assuming it will act similar to mine. I've noticed a couple of things with mine that may help you. First, and some may say I'm wrong, and I probably am, is to try not to lap it. Mine smoothed out to where it feels good to hone on, not like there's marbles on it. Second is a tip I picked up here. After your satisfied with your passes under running water, try giving it a few laps with oil. Mineral oil was suggested, and it definitely gave me bump in keenness over running water. Mineral oil is nice because you can clean your stone easily with dish soap, and the stone shows no side effects when you use water. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the advice. I did do a quick lapping with it when I got it and it was already very flat. It self slurried pretty badly at first, but that has all but quit now. I haven't tried oil yet, but I have used both glycerin and lather so far. I may have to try to mineral oil next.

I actually spent some more time on the stone tonight with the gold dollar I was working on. I used quite a bit of pressure at first especially focusing on the heel...a lot of half lap sets. I finally went on to alternating laps with pressure, then light touch, then glycerin and light touch. I definitely felt like it was improved from before. I then grabbed my pearl king that has lost some keeness as of late and did some half laps, light, and with glycerin. It also seems to have improved the edge.

It has been difficult to resist using the crox on cotton. It's not that I don't think I'll ever use it again or that I shouldn't use it, I would just like to see what this coti can do on it's own. I'm pretty sure though that if I were to hit the crox with this blade where it is right now I'd be really happy with where it is. I'm pretty confident that the edge is better coming off the coti right now than I normally get coming off the cnat, so I'm also pretty confident that a few laps on crox and I'd have a REALLY sharp and comfy edge.

Another shave test will commence in the morning

 

[Dilbone]

This morning's shave was better than yesterday, but part of that is likely 1 day of growth vs 4days. The longer whiskers always seem to result in more tugging and pulling for me than if I don't go more than a couple of days without shaving...probably an angle thing or something.

Anyway, I do think it's noticeably sharper but still not where it would be after crox. This was a full 2 pass shave and pretty comfortable. The ATG wasn't perfect probably because of hitting it yesterday pretty hard and then today I was really trying to get it smooth so I probably overworked the area a bit.

I might try another 30 light laps on lather tonight and try tomorrow and depending on how that feels I may go with some mineral oil for a final try with 30 more light laps.

I'm wondering if the edge just won't be as sharp as I'd like it of the coti. After the lather then oil I may go ahead and try the crox just to see if there is a substantial improvement. I haven't had anything bad to say about crox, so it's not like I'm not happy with the edges I've had with the cnat and crox I just want to see if there's something faster than the cnat that I would actually enjoy using, crox or no crox.

 

[gary haywood]

The type of coticule you have are not the easiest for some reason. It maybe that the type of coticule just is,nt up to the mark. Finishing with crox maybe your answer. It's easy for me to say you have to work it out but maybe I would have the same issues. You have tried and not given up.

yournot the first and won't be the last to have the same issues. Getting that little extra can be so difficult and frustrating.

have you tried unicot method? It's good to try just to see if you can get a smooth keen edge using unicot.

 

[Dilbone]

The type of coticule you have are not the easiest for some reason. It maybe that the type of coticule just is,nt up to the mark. Finishing with crox maybe your answer. It's easy for me to say you have to work it out but maybe I would have the same issues. You have tried and not given up.

yournot the first and won't be the last to have the same issues. Getting that little extra can be so difficult and frustrating.

have you tried unicot method? It's good to try just to see if you can get a smooth keen edge using unicot.

I've experimented a bit with dulicot, then unicot....that razor I think is just junk and subject to micro chipping as nothing I've done has worked on that warped blade. Probably shouldn't have used a blade that had given me fits regardless of the hone to try out a coti...


Tonight I went with some mineral oil and did some light laps. It showed no improvement...may have even been worse than before, no idea why. I went back to glycerin and did some half lap sets then finished with 30 light laps. It seems like it's just as good as it can get off the coti. I don't think there's anything else I can do or try right not.

There was a second blade I was working with and I decided to hit it with crox because it didn't seem I was getting anywhere. The keeness bumped up a few notches on that blade.

I'm going to shave with the blade straight off the coti tomorrow morning. If it still doesn't feel like it's quite there then I'm going to hit crox for the next day and see what happens.

My other issue right now is that the coti is developing cracks in it just in the last couple of days. Is this normal or should I be concerned? These were not there at all until the last 2 days

 

[gary haywood]

Does,not look bad to me but if cracks get worse you can send it back as the surface is guaranteed. Have you got a razor that's shave ready. If so try 30 laps on water see what happens

 

[Dilbone]

Does,not look bad to me but if cracks get worse you can send it back as the surface is guaranteed. Have you got a razor that's shave ready. If so try 30 laps on water see what happens

I contacted the superior shave and they suggested I wick CA into the cracks and lightly re-lap, I don't know how normal this is, but it seems odd that the surface that needs to be this precise has cracks and thats "OK"

I have taken a couple of straights that had great shaving edges(off the cnat and crox) and hit them with 30laps under running water and it didn't seem to do much if anything.

This morning's shave after honing with oil, then back to glycerin and linen/leather was ok.

I can't tell if it was any better than before. No dramatic change either way.

I'm about to not shave sat/sun and see how it feels monday. Depending on how that shave feels I'm tempted to hit the cnat for some light laps and shave test after that, then hit the crox after that and check it.
One big experiment here I guess...

 

[gary haywood]

You can fill them like Jarrod says. If your not happy about that send it back Maurice at ardanees and he will exchange it. He,s very understanding and it won't be a problem for him to swap it.

if it did nothing then that's not a bad thing, it did.nt degrade it neither so that's fine. Some one sent me a Welsh slate to try after a coticule edge, and I must say the edge very nice. If you can usemcnat and crox after then that's all good

 

[Dilbone]

I had a very close 2 pass shave with some minor clean up this morning and was near BBS.

The heel still isn't where it should be and I should probably go back the the king 6k or norton 8k and see if I can improve that area but I'll wait.

I think I will hit the cnat this weekend and see what Monday's shave feels like, then hit crox and see what that does for tuesday.

I just put some CA on the areas of the cracks and couldn't really tell if it was wicking in at all, but tomorrow I'll lap it lightly even though I don't want to start over with some of the burnishing I have finally gotten done on it.

I do have to say though that I don't believe I have actually ever gotten a shaveable edge off of a stone before, so that part is exciting I guess.

 

[Dilbone]

I lapped the CA glue areas and as I was working on it, which seemed to take forever, I finally got back down to the stone to find that it clearly wasn't flat anymore.

I had an area along the longest side almost 3/8" wide that still had a glazed look to it while the rest was dull and lapped flat. I apparently need to do a better job of using all of the edges equally to try keeping it flat longer. It had some fairly deep scratches from the DMT 325 so I hit it with my wet dry 400grit and it smoothed it all out.

How often do guys generally lap a coti? This thing seems so soft I can't imagine not needing to lap it more often than what it seems most guys recommend.

 

[Dilbone]

Here's a little experiment I just did.

I have a W&B blade that I just cannot get shave ready to my liking. I decided to slurry the coti and work on it without tape for a while, then put the 1 layer of tape back on and did some laps with a really dilute slurry diluting all the way to water, then finally finishing with a few drops of glycerin with water.

I checked the edge and it was tree top catching and popping a few hairs on my leg and forearm straight off the stone.

I then went to the cnat with glycerin and very light laps. 30 maybe. Almost no catching and popping hairs.

I went back to the coti with glycerin and had it popping a few hairs again. Back to the cnat with glycerin being very careful and same as before little to no popping and catching hairs.

So.....I think I've put to rest the idea that maybe the cnat would be able to give me a bump after the coti. I won't even waste my time with it with the GD I've been working on.

I will hit the coti once more with the GD using glycerin or lather for 30 light laps before Monday's shave, then I'll break down and hit the crox for tuesday and see what kind of bump up I get.

I really feel like the coti has shown itself to be a better finisher than anything I currently have(and better than I initially thought)....so I feel even better about picking this one up after doing the A/B comparison with the cnat.

 

[Dilbone]

Ok, last post today....probably.

I just did 30-40 really light laps on glycerin with the GD I've been working on and it seems bumped up a notch. The heel is MUCH improved because it's actually making contact with the hone now that it's flat.

I think maybe it was so far out of flat that I just couldn't get the edge any better. I'm gonna have to keep an eye on that from now on. However using a light touch and only as a finisher most of the time should keep it flat pretty long. I was doing a lot more work with pressure and slurry when I first got it that probably got it wearing pretty fast along with not making sure to turn it regularly and keep using all parts of the stone equally. Lesson learned, and much better results to show for it.

 

[Gott543]

Ok, last post today....probably.

I just did 30-40 really light laps on glycerin with the GD I've been working on and it seems bumped up a notch. The heel is MUCH improved because it's actually making contact with the hone now that it's flat.

I think maybe it was so far out of flat that I just couldn't get the edge any better. I'm gonna have to keep an eye on that from now on. However using a light touch and only as a finisher most of the time should keep it flat pretty long. I was doing a lot more work with pressure and slurry when I first got it that probably got it wearing pretty fast along with not making sure to turn it regularly and keep using all parts of the stone equally. Lesson learned, and much better results to show for it.

Glad you're finally gaining some ground with it. I took some advice from you and hit the pasted strop. Nice edge, I think that's gonna be what I need. As far as using oil or glycerin, which I assume is close to oil, at least for me is the amount of laps. I was close to the crox edge after like 250 laps on oil. So maybe just try more laps on glycerin?

 

[Dilbone]

Glad you're finally gaining some ground with it. I took some advice from you and hit the pasted strop. Nice edge, I think that's gonna be what I need. As far as using oil or glycerin, which I assume is close to oil, at least for me is the amount of laps. I was close to the crox edge after like 250 laps on oil. So maybe just try more laps on glycerin?

Definitely getting somewhere. Yeah, I'm still holding off on the crox so far. My thing is if I have to do 250 laps on the coti vs 10-20laps on the crox to get a similar result...I'm gonna be done in a mater of seconds on the crox and enjoy the shave.

I shaved last night with 2.5-3days growth and noticed there was a definite bump in keenness from the time on the flattened stone. The heel is still not where it should be so I think I'm going to hold off on the crox for the time being and hit the stone a bit more in an attempt to catch the heel up. The toe is by far the sharpest it has been. Once I feel like I've really maxed out the coti then I'll hit the crox with this particular blade. I also did some light laps on glycerin with a different gold dollar I have and I'm anxious to see how it feels, but I keep using this other one as I continue the experiment. My other razors have been quite neglected...

 

[Dilbone]

I spent some more time last night focusing on the heel of the blade. I have no idea how many laps, but I made sure to rotate the stone every so often and use as much real estate as I could in terms of the 3 straight sides of the stone are concerned. I hope that will help me keep it flat longer.

I used glycerin/water again and I finally got to a point where it began to feel different on the stone...I started to get that "sticky" feeling and new I was about done. From toe to just over half way down the edge it is maxed out I think, from that point on to the heel it is still not quite there but still very sharp...nothing to keep me from wanting to shave with it.

This morning's shave was the smoothest, closest, and most comfortable shave yet...and no crox. The way this blade feels I may be done with crox for a while and see if I can maintain everything I have with just the coti.
It makes me wish I'd have lapped it flat again after some of the higher pressure honing I had done when I first got it and maybe it wouldn't have taken so long to get here. I don't know that I'll ever do much with dulicot or unicot processes but as a finisher I believe it will do what I had hoped it would...replace the cnat.

 

[Dilbone]

 

[Dilbone]

I hit a different GD that I have in bone scales last night for a bit with water then with glycerin. It definitely wasn't as keen popping hairs on my forearm and leg as it normally is coming off of crox, but it was better than usual coming off a stone. I shaved with it this morning and it was a good shave, comfortable but not quite as sharp as it was off crox. I think I might be ok with that...technique has to change a bit and maybe some additional clean up required, but it was a good shave none the less.

I'm actually kicking around getting a black arkansas now and seeing if that would give it a bump after the coti instead of crox. Crox is cheaper and easier...must be a case of HAD coming on. I never thought that would be happening to me...

 

[Dilbone]

...and the experiments just keep coming...

I had my pearl king that I had done a few laps(maybe 50-100) on the coti with water and/or glycerin and shaved with it. It didn't seem as sharp as I like it. I then took it to crox for 10-20 and the next shave had a noticeable bump in keenness without any negative impact.

Maybe crox IS the ticket for me. I hear so many people saying that crox is only for "covering" honing mistakes or for those that aren't as "advanced" at honing, but the more I am seeing here as I continue to experiement is that regardless of what I do off of the coti the blades just aren't where they are coming off the crox in terms of sharpness. Because I don't really get irritated very easily it's quite possible that any "roughness" that the crox introduces is undetectable by my skin so much so that all I can detect is a bump in keenness of the edge.

I feel like crox and other pastes are looked down upon as an inferior way to get a razor where you want it...and I think I was beginning to maybe believe it myself. I have avoided using it thinking there was an issue with my own honing process or technique, but I'm now leaning away from that thought through my own experiences...you know, the ol' YMMV mantra. It really may just be that.

However, in the interest of exhausting all of my options and hitting every variable I decided to use some glycerin again and hit the pearl king and the bone scaled GD I've been experimenting with while leaving the other GD(the one I started this whole experiment with)alone for the time being.
Every time I've used glycerin on the hone I have used a bit of water with it as well, like a lather might be, just a watery slick solution. This time I decided to use the glycerin like I would mineral oil.
I put 4-5 drops of glycerin on the stone and rubbed it around with my finger to get a thin layer on it and did maybe 60ish laps on both blades. The glycerin by itself was very similar to mineral oil in how it felt and behaved. I don't know if straight glycerin with no water dilution is the way most guys use it, but I think I've found my new "final finish" method. I liked it.

The GD, which has been on the coti at least a few times since seeing crox, was popping hairs pretty well on the floating leg hair test.
The Pearl King, which had just seen crox a shave or 2 ago, was popping hairs a bit better than the GD.

I'm anxious to get a shave in with each of these and compare. The only other experiment I can see my trying is something I saw by Bart over at coticule.be where they were taking a hard bar of soap and rubbing it dry onto the coti to get a very thin layer of hard soap using their fingers to work it into a thin even layer and then honing on that for 50-100laps. One step of this whole process was actually running the edge down the bar of soap...something about getting rid of a wire or fin edge and further refining the cutting edge. I may or may not try any of that. We'll see.
Depending on how these 2 blades feel I may finally hit the crox with one or both of them and see what kind of bump I get and if the comfort is effected by it.

I will say that the coti has made honing more enjoyable and much more predictable than that cnat(I actually typed 'cant' just now instead of cnat by accident....or was it???) I am still kicking around the idea of a black arki, but still not sure I really want or need it...Ok I know I don't need it, but maybe I want it???

Just because this thread is so long with so few pictures, here are the 2 razors I'm currently experimenting with. The Pearl King and a GD in bone.

 

[Gott543]

...and the experiments just keep coming...

I had my pearl king that I had done a few laps(maybe 50-100) on the coti with water and/or glycerin and shaved with it. It didn't seem as sharp as I like it. I then took it to crox for 10-20 and the next shave had a noticeable bump in keenness without any negative impact.

Maybe crox IS the ticket for me. I hear so many people saying that crox is only for "covering" honing mistakes or for those that aren't as "advanced" at honing, but the more I am seeing here as I continue to experiement is that regardless of what I do off of the coti the blades just aren't where they are coming off the crox in terms of sharpness. Because I don't really get irritated very easily it's quite possible that any "roughness" that the crox introduces is undetectable by my skin so much so that all I can detect is a bump in keenness of the edge.

I feel like crox and other pastes are looked down upon as an inferior way to get a razor where you want it...and I think I was beginning to maybe believe it myself. I have avoided using it thinking there was an issue with my own honing process or technique, but I'm now leaning away from that thought through my own experiences...you know, the ol' YMMV mantra. It really may just be that.

However, in the interest of exhausting all of my options and hitting every variable I decided to use some glycerin again and hit the pearl king and the bone scaled GD I've been experimenting with while leaving the other GD(the one I started this whole experiment with)alone for the time being.
Every time I've used glycerin on the hone I have used a bit of water with it as well, like a lather might be, just a watery slick solution. This time I decided to use the glycerin like I would mineral oil.
I put 4-5 drops of glycerin on the stone and rubbed it around with my finger to get a thin layer on it and did maybe 60ish laps on both blades. The glycerin by itself was very similar to mineral oil in how it felt and behaved. I don't know if straight glycerin with no water dilution is the way most guys use it, but I think I've found my new "final finish" method. I liked it.

The GD, which has been on the coti at least a few times since seeing crox, was popping hairs pretty well on the floating leg hair test.
The Pearl King, which had just seen crox a shave or 2 ago, was popping hairs a bit better than the GD.

I'm anxious to get a shave in with each of these and compare. The only other experiment I can see my trying is something I saw by Bart over at coticule.be where they were taking a hard bar of soap and rubbing it dry onto the coti to get a very thin layer of hard soap using their fingers to work it into a thin even layer and then honing on that for 50-100laps. One step of this whole process was actually running the edge down the bar of soap...something about getting rid of a wire or fin edge and further refining the cutting edge. I may or may not try any of that. We'll see.
Depending on how these 2 blades feel I may finally hit the crox with one or both of them and see what kind of bump I get and if the comfort is effected by it.

I will say that the coti has made honing more enjoyable and much more predictable than that cnat(I actually typed 'cant' just now instead of cnat by accident....or was it???) I am still kicking around the idea of a black arki, but still not sure I really want or need it...Ok I know I don't need it, but maybe I want it???

Just because this thread is so long with so few pictures, here are the 2 razors I'm currently experimenting with. The Pearl King and a GD in bone.

Ya know, after today's shave my attitude has changed regarding pasted strops as well. Usual coticule hone with oil finish, stropped linen and leather. Getting better, but not quite what I wanted. Decided to hit my pasted poor man and see what happened, and I liked it. Shaved promptly afterwards and had a fantastic shave. Not sure what the hubbub about crox being harsh, the only AS burn I had was in the cuts on my fingers. I tried rubbing a bar of soap on the stone, IMHO it's a step backwards from oil, but give it a shot and see what you think.

 

[Dilbone]

Ya know, after today's shave my attitude has changed regarding pasted strops as well. Usual coticule hone with oil finish, stropped linen and leather. Getting better, but not quite what I wanted. Decided to hit my pasted poor man and see what happened, and I liked it. Shaved promptly afterwards and had a fantastic shave. Not sure what the hubbub about crox being harsh, the only AS burn I had was in the cuts on my fingers. I tried rubbing a bar of soap on the stone, IMHO it's a step backwards from oil, but give it a shot and see what you think.

I hear ya about the crox thing...I don't sense any harshness to it, just a keenness that I can't get with any stone I own. Maybe a black arki or a jnat or shapton or whatever would get me there...but right now crox is as cheap as it gets(but I'm still holding out using it until I feel like I'm done with my little experiment).
Good to know about the soap, I'll stick with the glycerin then.


I got a shave in last night with the GD and it was a very smooth shave. Just a 1pass with some xtg clean up on the cheeks and atg under jaw and neck. I think with a full 2 pass shave it could have been near bbs. No irritation, but ATG is still just not quite as keen as I'd like.
Maybe tonight I'll use the pearl king and see how it feels comparatively. After that I think I'll hit the crox finally and see what happens.

 

[Dilbone]

I hit the Pearl King with 15 laps on cotton webbing with crox and had a fantastic shave this morning. No irritation and nearly BBS. The keenness bumped a notch but not as much as I was expecting and the smoothness was still there IMO. Maybe my coticule edge is better than I thought or I just got lucky this morning?

I might hit the crox with the GD in the morning and see if it makes a difference.