- Thread starter
- #241
Thanks mate
Step-by-step Ever-Ready brush restoration
- Thread starter Vinny Bobo
- Start date
Alright, I've read through a lot...don't remember it all....One thing I don't seem to understand, and can't seem to replicated is the drilling out the hair part.....why am I struggling...I can't seem to make it go...but I'm a little tentative because I don't know how hard I'm supposed to go.
Can anyone elaborate, quite a bit, about the drilling out the hair process?
Can anyone elaborate, quite a bit, about the drilling out the hair process?
- Thread starter
- #243
It's really not that difficult once you know a few things:
1.) there is a shelf located approximately 1/2 an inch down through the bristles. Try not to drill through it.
2.) I start with the biggest drill bit I have and begin drilling in the center of the knot. The only purpose of the drill is to grab and pull out the bristles.
3.) Once the center is de-bristled, use a smaller sized bit and move closer to the edge. (a dremel tool really comes in handy as you get closer to the edge.)
Do not bump the edge of the brush handle because you do not want to scratch and chip the handle.
4.) I use a small bit for the detail around the knot opening.
Hope this is helpful.
Here's what I do. I have my drill clamped in my bench vise so I can hold the brush in my right hand and control the speed of the drill with my left. After I clip the brush hairs as short as possible, I put masking tape all around the top and sides of the brush to prevent me doing too much damage to it if something slips or something.
I have a 3/8 drill bit that I put in the drill and try to make a hole in the center of the old stubs of the bristles. I use low speed on the drill while I hold the brush in my right hand real tight and brace my right arm and wrist up against my side to give as much stability as possible. Then I gently but firmly push the brush in against the drill bit, never taking my eye off of it for a second. Concentration with both hands and the eyes is critical. Pretty soon the drill bit will make gradual progress in drilling into and among the base of the brush.
I eventually feel the brush starting to dig into the bristles and they start coming out. I stop all activity every few seconds to look down into the work and see what's going on. I'm not trying to "drill a hole". I'm trying to get the bristles rooted out of their hole. The big drill bit is not my main tool. The main workhorse is the little round burr that I bought at Woodcraft. It's about 3/16 to a 1/4 of an inch, and is tungsten. Extremely sharp. It usually takes me about an hour of hard work with the burr to get the old stuff out and clean out the hole.
You never know from one brush to the next, what you are going to find after you successfully remove the old stuff, and then you're on your way to the fun part. Here are my pictures. You'll see the 3/8 bit, the burr, and two grinding stones that fit into the drill, that I use occasionally for reaming out the hole to fit a 22mm knot. I also have a picture of a smaller grinding bit that helps smooth out the sides of the hole after the burr has done the majority of the work.
- Thread starter
- #245
well said Gary.
Ugh....alright, first off...I need to get that ball bit - I looked for it for my dremel and couldn't find it.
My other problem is.....I live in an apartment building...no garage, no vise. I know, I know - this is what Rudy Vey is for....but I'd like to try it myself. Anybody have a good idea for someone lacking a vise?
I ran a test run on a cheap brush...and was able to get everything out...alright. I ruined it, because at first I tried using a small fiberglass disc in the dremel and well that was a really bad idea....and once I realized I had ruined the brush I just took the tape off and went at it hard just trying to figure stuff out. I drilled essentially a hole in the middle and then used some bit that aren't the same but work similarly to the ball bit above. I see the shelf - It's not perfectly smooth in there because well I'm not puttin a knot in this one so why work at it - but I knicked up the brush pretty good. Perhaps next time will go better. I'll be more careful and take my time.
My other problem is.....I live in an apartment building...no garage, no vise. I know, I know - this is what Rudy Vey is for....but I'd like to try it myself. Anybody have a good idea for someone lacking a vise?
I ran a test run on a cheap brush...and was able to get everything out...alright. I ruined it, because at first I tried using a small fiberglass disc in the dremel and well that was a really bad idea....and once I realized I had ruined the brush I just took the tape off and went at it hard just trying to figure stuff out. I drilled essentially a hole in the middle and then used some bit that aren't the same but work similarly to the ball bit above. I see the shelf - It's not perfectly smooth in there because well I'm not puttin a knot in this one so why work at it - but I knicked up the brush pretty good. Perhaps next time will go better. I'll be more careful and take my time.
A vise is not absolutely necessary but it does make things quite a bit easier and more precise.
A pen makers vise works exceptionally well for these old handles...
Penn State Industries sells these...not cheap but a nice portable tool...no shop or garage required.
I use a standard twist drill about 1/4" to "cut" out the old hair...starting from the center then working out to the edge.
Then I use a sanding drum on a Dremel tool to clean out the hole.
If I need to drill deeper I use an appropriately sizes forstner bit.
A pen makers vise works exceptionally well for these old handles...
Penn State Industries sells these...not cheap but a nice portable tool...no shop or garage required.
I use a standard twist drill about 1/4" to "cut" out the old hair...starting from the center then working out to the edge.
Then I use a sanding drum on a Dremel tool to clean out the hole.
If I need to drill deeper I use an appropriately sizes forstner bit.
I am basically too impatient and inept at using tools, and as such don't have any sort of workshop or any sort of collection of tools and yet I've completed restorations with a minimum of tools:
1. Use scissors to cut off old bristles as close to handle as possible ( Still got all fingers...check )
1a. Tape top of handle just incase you slip ( hand not attached to handle with tape....check )
2. Use pliers start pulling out as much of the old bristle as possible. Don't go for big chunks, go for small chunks. Start from the inside out ( Haven't jammed fingers in pliers...check )
3. Use knife/corkscrew/drill and drill bit to start drilling/digging out the middle of the knot. ( no holes in hand/leg/arm .....check )
4. Use pliers to keep pulling out bristles until you can't get any more out ( still got all fingers....check )
5. Use drill at an angle ( think cup and spoon ), to drill out the bottom of the know. Work slowly, drill a bit, plier out bristles, drill a bit more..... Make sure your angle isn't so great that it's hitting the top of the brush ( hard to explain , hopefully makes sense ) ( Still no holes in any part of the body ...check )
6. All bristles out ???? Use bigger drill bit just to clean up the hole ( Wow...still no holes in any part of my body ).
7. In it's simplest case...glue in new knot ( Haven't glued the knot to hand, forehead...check ).
It's not the most economical way in terms of time of doing it but it can be done.
See my restoration http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=119154
I have a batch of restores comin.....and I know one of them I don't really want, but the auction was for 3 brushes and I wanted two of them - so I'm gonna practice what you (fidjit) did....I wasn't patient enough for mine and didn't think to use pliers. If that doesn't work.......woodcraft has a solid cheap vise that I think I can get.
Can someone explain exactly what they mean when you use cork to create a new shelf? Are you just cutting a cork to size and epoxy-ing it in - or are you creating some sort of mixture of epoxy and cork shavings? I'm a bit confused.
I chopped up cork and mixed it with epoxy to both fill the hollow base of my brush and form a solid foundation for the knot.
I think some people have cut a wine cork to the proper height and epoxied that in to form the knot "shelf" rather than using chopped up cork.
Both approaches work. I did find that chopped cork wanted to float in the epoxy so I had watch that.
I think some people have cut a wine cork to the proper height and epoxied that in to form the knot "shelf" rather than using chopped up cork.
Both approaches work. I did find that chopped cork wanted to float in the epoxy so I had watch that.
With the Fuller referred to above , I tried a whole lot of different materiels to replace the drilled out shelf and ended up making a cork tile shelf ( probably about 7mm high ) that actually sat on top of the bottom part of the handle ( the yellow bakelite part ) and epoxied around it to give me the correct loft.
I could have filled the hollow bottom with some other material completely to achive the same thing but because I could use a shelf that was the way I did it.......
But it will depend on the brush.....
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Thanks...I wanted to make sure this would work. I just epoxied in a piece of cork that turned out to be the perfect width to one of my restores. The only problem that arose was I think it set the shelf a little high....so I have to shave down the cork a little. Probably just use the sanding bit on my dremel. Might come out less flat - but I imagine it doesn't have to be perfectly flat.
Also, after re-reading the thread I noticed people struggling to properly measure the handle opening for the proper size knot. Some have suggested a caliper, which if you have it by all means it should work. But I don't have one and didn't want to purchase one.
The way I've figured out is to take a regular dowel ...a small skinny one like those you use when making kabobs for dinner - easily obtainable at a grocery store - cut it down to longer than you need with a wire cutter or something - then start cutting off tiny bits at a time until it just fits inside the handle - make sure it fits all the way down to where the shelf sits - then take out that little piece of dowel and measure it with a ruler - if you don't have a metric ruler type "7/8 inch to mm" or "9/16 inch to mm" or whatever your measurement in inches is into google and they will give you an answer.
Also, after re-reading the thread I noticed people struggling to properly measure the handle opening for the proper size knot. Some have suggested a caliper, which if you have it by all means it should work. But I don't have one and didn't want to purchase one.
The way I've figured out is to take a regular dowel ...a small skinny one like those you use when making kabobs for dinner - easily obtainable at a grocery store - cut it down to longer than you need with a wire cutter or something - then start cutting off tiny bits at a time until it just fits inside the handle - make sure it fits all the way down to where the shelf sits - then take out that little piece of dowel and measure it with a ruler - if you don't have a metric ruler type "7/8 inch to mm" or "9/16 inch to mm" or whatever your measurement in inches is into google and they will give you an answer.
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Alright, I apologize to those who keep coming back to answer....but first timer - so I have questions.
I've drilled out 4 handles so far - I happen to already have two 20MM and one 22MM knots here - gonna order more for the rest - anyway...so far every single one of the handles has fallen somewhere in between regular knot sizes - what I mean is....in 2 of the brush handles the 20MM fits, but not very snuggly...but the 22MM just barely doesn't fit (leading me to believe it's 21MM wide) - in one other brush the 20MM is just barely too big (leading me to believe it's 19MM wide) and another brush, which I measure precisely come out to about between 16.5 and 17 MM.........now what should I do? I guess for one of them I can try to widen it a bit, but I don't really want to, and defitely don't want to for the others (and can't for a couple) - so how do I solve this problem? Can I put a knot in the handle if it's not terribly snug (possibly a MM space on one side)? Do those odd number knots exist anywhere? any help would be much appreciated.
I've drilled out 4 handles so far - I happen to already have two 20MM and one 22MM knots here - gonna order more for the rest - anyway...so far every single one of the handles has fallen somewhere in between regular knot sizes - what I mean is....in 2 of the brush handles the 20MM fits, but not very snuggly...but the 22MM just barely doesn't fit (leading me to believe it's 21MM wide) - in one other brush the 20MM is just barely too big (leading me to believe it's 19MM wide) and another brush, which I measure precisely come out to about between 16.5 and 17 MM.........now what should I do? I guess for one of them I can try to widen it a bit, but I don't really want to, and defitely don't want to for the others (and can't for a couple) - so how do I solve this problem? Can I put a knot in the handle if it's not terribly snug (possibly a MM space on one side)? Do those odd number knots exist anywhere? any help would be much appreciated.
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Sounds like a good way to measure down in the hole if you do not have a caliper.
The shelf does not have to be flat, just make sure you have a way of keeping the knot level as the glue sets. My last one with the cork floating in epoxy...I redrilled it to get a flat shelf where a couple pieces of cork poked up.
Like fidgit says, every restore seems to have a bit of a different challenge.
The shelf does not have to be flat, just make sure you have a way of keeping the knot level as the glue sets. My last one with the cork floating in epoxy...I redrilled it to get a flat shelf where a couple pieces of cork poked up.
Like fidgit says, every restore seems to have a bit of a different challenge.
Almost everyone who has stated knot and hole sizes seems to allow about 2mm space around the knot.
I like to have a bit of room to allow some glue to work up the side of the knot base and have left about 1.5-2.0 mm space.
If you can shove a knot is and it looks good though I would not be too concerned about how tight it was. Just be careful with the glue so to not have it ooze out into the hair and make sure there is enough in there for a good bond.
Rudy and others have filed the knot bases on some restores to make them fit odd holes. Also the GN knots do have some variation.
A bit a space around the knot base should give a decent bond....
I think your 20mm that seem loose are probably what most of us would be gluing in.
The tight fit would depend some on just how tight it was...if I felt I could not easily set the knot in glue or it may make a huge mess because of my fiddling around I would consider that knot to be to tight.
I like to have a bit of room to allow some glue to work up the side of the knot base and have left about 1.5-2.0 mm space.
If you can shove a knot is and it looks good though I would not be too concerned about how tight it was. Just be careful with the glue so to not have it ooze out into the hair and make sure there is enough in there for a good bond.
Rudy and others have filed the knot bases on some restores to make them fit odd holes. Also the GN knots do have some variation.
A bit a space around the knot base should give a decent bond....
I think your 20mm that seem loose are probably what most of us would be gluing in.
The tight fit would depend some on just how tight it was...if I felt I could not easily set the knot in glue or it may make a huge mess because of my fiddling around I would consider that knot to be to tight.
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Man, calipers, dowels, you guys are so Tim "the Tool Man" Taylor !!!!
I use a cheap promo ruler to measure the size of the knot hole. I use a small piece of paper, put it in the knot hole till it's sitting on the shelf and then bend it at the top of the knot hole and then use my cheap promo ruler to measure the length of the paper to get the depth.
I am so in awe of your awesome tool kits
Man, calipers, dowels, you guys are so Tim "the Tool Man" Taylor !!!!
I use a cheap promo ruler to measure the size of the knot hole. I use a small piece of paper, put it in the knot hole till it's sitting on the shelf and then bend it at the top of the knot hole and then use my cheap promo ruler to measure the length of the paper to get the depth.
I am so in awe of your awesome tool kits
FYI, calipers can be purchased from Harbor Freight for $1.99.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=7914
You ain't no kind of man if you can't use a brush restoration project as an excuse to purchase new tools.
FYI, calipers can be purchased from Harbor Freight for $1.99.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=7914
You ain't no kind of man if you can't use a brush restoration project as an excuse to purchase new tools.
Lol...I had dowels...and it's cold here (nyc)....hardware store in walking distance...but brrrrrrrr.
How long do you fellas wait once you drop the knot in before you are using the brush? I used clear marine epoxy.
