Share your honing experiment. What did you learn?

[TheBeast]

So last night a "Gold Monkey" arrived, I got it to do some modification experiments for when I see cool stuff on the internet and want to try them.

It's warped, the spine has uneven thickness. It did not lay flat on the hone, one side had the tip raised from the surface of the stone by like 1.5 mm, just a crazy gap. Yes it has a smile, but that was extreme, half the edge was waaay above the stone. So I double taped the edge and worked the spine on the 150 side of the diamond plate. I removed lots of steel and stopped when it wasnt moving the edge towards the stone anymore. So I smoothed it out a little on the 600 side, did some work on the other side to kind of match the sides.

It did require quite a profound rolling stroke on the 1k, but I managed to hone it to a nice shaver.

I set a bevel on the 1k worthy of shaving for the first time. And I watched in action how pressure in different parts of the razor while on the hone affects the process. If I wasn't paying attention, I would cut "two bevels" into the razor. It is enough to stop honing, check with the loupe and change grip/place a finger on the tip/forgetting or starting to apply torque and going back to the hone. After a couple of laps, the bevel face is not in one plane. I was also using more pressure than necessary. Lightening up still got the needed work done quite fast. I was also puting most of the pressure near the heel and on the edge of the stone, where the edge would suffer with every lap. After lightening up, refocusing to put the pressure on the center of the stone and keeping the stroke as consistent as I could - voila - shaving arm hair like nothing, no reflections from the edge looking straight down with a loupe. So I made sure the bevel is in one plane across the whole face, studying how the scratches reflect light. Then polished on 5k, 8k and 0.5um diamond balsa. The 8k was getting sticky on the side with a wider bevel face. The other side could have used some more work on the diamond plate, but I did just enough to meet and intersect the bevel planes, albeit with one side having a wider bevel face. No matter, the other side made perfect contact at the edge as well. Still not a perfect mirror finnish after 8k or 0.5 um. But that widely depends on ligthning conditions and the angle at which the light hits the steel. At one angle its a mirror and when you turn it a little and the light hits just right - you can clearly make out glints of scrathces. But the important thing I think is that these scratches are uniformly wide/deep and in one direction - with corelation to the stroke orientation which was used on the last abrasive surface. So there are no straight scratches (Which I used from 1k to 8k for the first few laps) visible if I finnished heel leading at about 45° on the balsa. Only 45° scratches visible after that, which should be all well.


So when I finnished this edge and tried shaving, it was my best edge yet. Close and comfy with a single WTG pass.

 

[TheBeast]

Today I learned that I am incredibly stubborn, impatient, lack eye to hand coordination and my hands could very well grow out of my behind. I lack the attention to detail and am unable to stick to something that I want to. I can't pay undivided attention to one task. Anyway, today I proved to myself that I can overcome these characteristics of mine.

Last night I thought I finally got the hang of honing. Nope. But maybe today, I got a baby step closer. After my GD 208 did not shave well enough and I had to put it down after two strokes, I reset the bevel. I was surgical and obsessing over every little detail. Those guys on youtube, that hone while talking and then shave right after and are happy about their edge... I could never.

I sticked to one grip, one stroke. I removed the towel that I used to set my stone holder onto and used to wipe the razor. I was transfering tiny pieces of it on the hone and I swear I could feel the edge bump over them. I honed on a freshly lapped stone, checked against a straight edge, very well rinsed. I did not touch the surface, I only put the razor on it. I inspected the scratches with naked eye, then a loupe. And voila, I finally removed ALL the scratches. I always struggled with this and would find rouge, deep scratches after 8k. Not this time. I finally understand how a rolling stroke needs to be consistent and smooth, to hit the entire bevel consistently. The moment I deviated from my stroke, when I tried to finnish with the stone in hand under running water, I noticed my bevel wasn't even. Back to the table, fixed it. Thank goodness. Finnished on 8k as lightly as I could while still maintaining how the pressure, or the weight/bulk of the razor and I guess a little bit of my forearm is distributed. Slicing HHT with a faint bump in my fingertips the moment the hair was cut.

I went to 0.25 diamond pasted balsa and did 25 laps, again, as light as I could. HHT went back to popping a little bit. After stroping the popping was reduced, but still present. I paid incredible attention to stropping as well and aimed for the same "tone" that the razor produces on leather for every single stroke for about 70 laps, I forgot to count.

All in all took me under 2 hours, I was in no rush. I feel more relaxed than if I would if I honed for half an hour and didn't get such a nice result.

What I noticed is that while there are no rouge scratches, the bevel faces are hazy under strong, white, LED light. Under a classic yellow light bulb, they are pretty much a perfect mirror in which I can make out the little strings inside the lightbulb.

This edge shaved so nice I went for two passes and gave myself razor burn. Worth it.

Here is my poor attempt to capture the bevel faces. Reflective, but hazy. 12k superstone leaves a better polish with no haziness. But I don't like that stone, probably because I never figured it out. This is after the shave and 15 laps on canvas(?) strop. The faint scratches going in the opposite direction got me confused, I'm not sure now if they are from the diamond, in which case I shaved basically off the 8k or from they are the remainings of 8k scratches. Anyways, I will give this razor 10 light laps on the 0.25 diamond pasted balsa before every shave and document how it looks and how it shaves.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

So, the goal is not a polished bevel, but look what it did for your edge.

You have to polish the bevel to polish the edge.

But you can learn a lot about honing by making edges like you are. Keep experimenting, keep trying new things.

 

[JPO]

Translucent Black Arkansas stone test.
I have been getting great edges from my Arkansas stone if I use it after a coticule. However, if I use it after a 12k synthetic stone the stone does not seem to improve the edge at all.
Maybe the 12k edge is too thin to benefit from further refinement/work on the Arkansas stone..

This is what I saw under magnification, which gives me enough understanding why these edges off my stone is not performing well.
Bengall 5/8 razor.
12k Naniwa edge.
The edge has a polished bevel and a clean apex.

Convex side of the Arkansas stone.
This was just to show how the striations from the 12k to the Ark look s like. The coarse striations will overtake the fine 12k striations when I move to the flat side.

This is the final Arkansas edge, which is not improving the 12k edge at all using this particular stone.
It did shave good, but did not have the same glide on the skin.

 

[JPO]

Testing some intentionally "toothy" edges.
This is a Dovo razor, honed on a La Veinette coticule using slurry. I did not dilute to water. This is how these famous smooth coticule edges looks under magnification.

This is the edge after the coticule with slurry. It leaves a toothy edge, but will still be comfortable. However, it is not a finished edge because it is not sharp enough.

The goal was to reduce the convexity caused by the coticule, and keep the coticule condition at the apex.
Now i use a Shapton 16k just to improve the geometry, without effecting the fingerprint of the coticule. This reveals a little more of the coticule striations. It will still have the coticule feel after stropping.

Finally the edge is stropped on linen and leather. The edge cleans up significantly. Coticule edges seems to benefit from a little more stropping then some other edges.

 

[lightfoot]

I really like shaving with razors that offer some feedback during the shave.

I’ll be interested to hear about how to shave goes.

 

[JPO]

I really like shaving with razors that offer some feedback during the shave.

I’ll be interested to hear about how to shave goes.

I will test the razor tomorrow.
I have been interested in the idea of shaving with these types of edges for a while. Finding a compromise between an edge that cuts hair well (slightly toothy) and one that is skin friendly.
I have shaved with this type of edge before, but now i decided to have a closer look at the edge.
I would like to investigate this further using other types of stones as well.
Slurried coticule edges looks terrible, but still leave a really smooth face feel. The problem is the convexity and the slurry dulling. This particular LV coticule does not seem to dull the apex too much, but it is a slightly softer stone, which will release some garnets.
Theses images also have better resolution, and the magnification is turned up a little as compared to what i have posted before. So, it might be easier to have a closer look at the actual apex.

 

[JPO]

I really like shaving with razors that offer some feedback during the shave.

I’ll be interested to hear about how to shave goes.

I just test shaved the razor. The results was not good.

I rehoned the razor by using a dilucot. I then finished on a Les Lat hybrid. This more or less does the same as the shapton. It reduces the convexity caused by the slurry, and preserves some of the teeth at the apex.
There was not a big difference in how the edge looked. However, i suspect it will shave quite different. I have used this combination many times before.
It is really hard to judge these types of edges just be looking at a microscope image.
You end up with more questions then answers.
Trial and error seems to be a better way to do these types of tests.

 

[lightfoot]

I just test shaved the razor. The results was not good.

I rehoned the razor by using a dilucot. I then finished on a Les Lat hybrid. This more or less does the same as the shapton. It reduces the convexity caused by the slurry, and preserves some of the teeth at the apex.
There was not a big difference in how the edge looked. However, i suspect it will shave quite different. I have used this combination many times before.
It is really hard to judge these types of edges just be looking at a microscope image.
You end up with more questions then answers.
Trial and error seems to be a better way to do these types of tests.

I haven’t tried to achieve this kind of micro-serrated edge with anything other than synthetics so far. The best I’ve found is to essentially polish the bevel in multiple ‘layers’, (I.e. a few strokes w/8k, a few strokes with a polishing agent, etc…).
I’ve not been able to get a truly comfortable result in a single stage of polish so there’s that to consider…

The end result is truly a composite of everything from 5K and beyond. Lots of practice and calibration involved.

 

[Singing in the brain]

I draw alot, and have the conviction that thinking about drawing, is also drawing. Its drawing without a pencil.

5-6 years ago i bought some kind of jnat. It was supposed to be able to give a good shave. After a while, i got bummed out just looking at it. 10% of scholarship money down the drain. Until like three months ago. Im not christian but dude what a hallelujah-moment i had. Laughing in the mirror kinda happy.

To mention three things that led me to viewing this as one of my absolutley best stones, it would be:

1. Logic: Do or die-mentality, concerning the topic.
1. Reading the stuff that you (all) write here.
2. Improving my technique: Work ergonomically, Switching grip and to be as aware of my body as with the razor yadayda.

Im also kinda ok with that i kinda f-d up early on and cut a decent tomo from it, but its overly big i thaught so now i have several. Maybe something for the BST-section.

 

[JPO]

"Toothy" edge, new progression:
Shapton pro 1.5k, hard La Dressante coticule, jnat with koma slurry, finished with tomo slurry.

This particular coticule gives a really nice edge on a knife. I prefer to finish with coticules that give a smoother edge for razors, but for this test it is optional.
Shave test to follow today.

 

[JPO]

After the test shave I can say that this work out great.
It was both smooth, and effortlessly.

The striations from the shapton 1.5 k seems to be gone. However, some of the impact damage is still visible at the apex.
I am not sure if this has any effect on the final edge. I need to redo this type of progression a few more times.

 

[JPO]

Why are we not allowed to edit our posts

 

[JPO]

Breaking all the "rules" honing.

Large grit jump, edge jointing and using pressure to intentionally flex the edge during finishing, followed by light strokes.
Progression; Shiro suita to 12k Morihei and finished on hard small jnat.

This suita will probably benefit from a midrange synthetic before going to 12k.
Shiro Suita edge used with some pressure.

12k Morihei used with weight of the blade pressure. The pressure used on the Suita was enough to flex the edge enough to enable the 12k to work more on the front part of the edge.

Edge jointing on a soft 8k stone with the least amount of pressure I am able to use to make contact with the edge. The edge had started to develop some issues at some parts of the edge. This creates a clean edge with a minimal amount of edge damage.

Hard Nakayama jnat with tomo slurry:

Now I intentionally use enough pressure (not much) to flex the edge, followed by less then weight of the blade strokes. This creates some concavity in the bevel, and reduce the chance for the edge to loose contact with the stone due to the fulcrum effect at the bevel shoulder.

Striations at 2/3 of the bevel face from the shoulder

Polish at the edge and lower part of the bevel.
The stone is now mostly effecting the lower part and the cutting edge.

A hard stone is needed for this to work. A softer stone will just dull the edge if pressure is used.
I also think you need a flexible grind for this to work.