There is only one rule....Which means that there is no second place....
Rules of a Gunfight
- Thread starter rockclimber
- Start date
"You are supposed to be professionals, shoot like it! " 
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- #23
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Funny video. Winning! (thumb's up)
simon1
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That is sooo funny. About the only thing I disagree with is using a car for cover. The engine block works well...unless you are under heavy military fire.
Thumbs up there Ben!
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All great advise.... Just keep it clean and it will fire.
simon1
Self Ignored by Vista
Hey Rob...you ever direct your men to use the horseshoe technique to contain an active shooter? (but my guys knew that in the first place, in that particular situation, and they did a great job...even with rounds going off. And my 1911 worked well)
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- #28
"Running for cover is not cowardice" haha.
To be honest, I haven't heard of anything called the 'Horsehoe Technique' in any kind of active shooter training I have been a part of. We train academy cadets, and patrol officers in the federally recognized, Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training (A.L.E.R.R.T.)
We do cover a training block in the academy called, "Horseshoe Bend AR 72512" during cadets 10 day defensive tactics block. But this is hands on type stuff, nothing to do with active shooters? But I am all ears on anything you can tell me?
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simon1
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It's just a simple Horseshoe pattern containment...works well, especially if the shooter is in a barricaded position. The men are positioned in a horseshoe shape around the shooter to avoid...umm...friendly fire things, but they can cover the rear of the position...the active shooter is kinda at the open end of the horseshoe. Horseshoe is just what we called it. Like a pincer maneuver but you don't close the pincer...you let the negotiator work.
Last one I was in the negotiations didn't turn out well.
What do you call that maneuver/tactic?
Last one I was in the negotiations didn't turn out well.
What do you call that maneuver/tactic?
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The training I am involved with, stays at the Cadet/Patrol level. However, since Columbine, much has been learned and changed in regards to how officers train, approach and respond to active shooter situations. whereas, it used to be perimeter/contain and call in S.W.A.T. There are so many things that have been learned since Columbine. Like, a person who was injured from a normally non-life threatening wound, actually bleeding out, from the lack of timely medical attention.
Law enforcement tactics have changed and improved, from first responding patrol officers maintaining a perimeter, while swat members arrive. Statistically speaking, during an active shooting incident, every 17 seconds, someone is shot or dies. Police have now implemented what is called Rapid Response, which puts the first responding patrol officers, into the drivers seat.
A.L.E.R.R.T. training consists of the very first officers to form 4 man diamond pattern entry teams. These teams move and respond in this diamond and will step over victims to move straight to the shooter in an attempt to immediately neutralize any and all aggressor's and save lives.
while following teams, evacuate and emergency medically treat, all victims. And secure rooms already cleared. The use of terminology concerning the certain tactics are many and complex, as there are so many different types of active shooting based scenarios, I won't take up that much space or side tracking this thread to put them in their proper perspective for each individual case.
Therefore, Rapid Deployment, or A.L.E.R.R.T. (Interior) or MACTAC, (Exterior) and Rescues (victims or hostages) are more accurately described as just “strategies” than anything else. The matching and changing of a proper strategy to the situation is always going to be specific 'mission critical'
For instance, a 'static hostage taking' as just one example. The standardized by the book strategy is to Stabilize, by containing and negotiating the surrender of hostages. However, if there is an immediate or sudden threat to the lives of hostages, officers (whether SWAT or patrol) will make dynamic entry to accomplish the goal of saving lives. At the same time, if during the course of an active shooting situation, the officers stop the offender and rescue all injured persons, the strategy slows again, BACK towards Stabilization.
If/when the threat urgency has expired, more traditional tactics are again used. Again, the use of these situational report methods, are more of an incident command approach, than a use in terminology for tactical techniques. However, it does efficiently and effectively communicate, changes or updates to strategy. An accurate situational report on the radio, will accelerate or slow the pace of the incident to a safe and proper strategy.
Line level officers need to understand, how their experiences and knowledge inside the danger area, affects the decisions for the right strategies at the right moments and properly communicate it as such, back to incident command.
Don't know If I have answered your question Mike, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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simon1
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You answered the question very well, Rob. Very well.
Yup, tactics have changed. When I first started we didn't have a SWAT team here...patrol did it all. If someone is in immediate danger...take care of it. After we got a SWAT team I had an old Lt. that would remark "I wonder if they have their babies dressed up in black tactical diapers and combat boots...baby SWATs."
After we got a SWAT team, tactics changed to contain and wait...if you could...along with the time it took for a command post to be set up. And...the time it took for everyone to get there.
Seems like now old is new again. I really need to go talk new tactics with a good friend of mine, that I started with, who is a Capt. now and see what's new. He's pre-SWAT also.
But...back to the tread of Rules of a Gunfight...there is no Second Place Winner.
Yup, tactics have changed. When I first started we didn't have a SWAT team here...patrol did it all. If someone is in immediate danger...take care of it. After we got a SWAT team I had an old Lt. that would remark "I wonder if they have their babies dressed up in black tactical diapers and combat boots...baby SWATs."
After we got a SWAT team, tactics changed to contain and wait...if you could...along with the time it took for a command post to be set up. And...the time it took for everyone to get there.
Seems like now old is new again. I really need to go talk new tactics with a good friend of mine, that I started with, who is a Capt. now and see what's new. He's pre-SWAT also.
But...back to the tread of Rules of a Gunfight...there is no Second Place Winner.
Move! And, Don't get shot!
Mike
Mike
simon1
Self Ignored by Vista
Nothing constructive to add...just a couple of vanity pics.
I always heard it said that "if you find yourself in a gunfight, you should not expect the rest of your day to get any more statistically normal."
Spot on statement.... At one point in my life I have tried to take cover behind a single blade of grass.... Well kinda....You think I'm kidding...
Bill Jordan and Col Cooper Principles of Self Defense are still the best books for 90 % of all gun owners who carry.
Only one, be the last man standing.
[MENTION=27468]simon1[/MENTION]
OK....my turn.
OK....my turn.
