Ok I’m in, but need some help

[gpjoe]

And yet another addicted fool .

Yep.

My goal is a DFS using a straight razor honed by my own hand.

Still working on it.

 

[Loner16]

Yep.

My goal is a DFS using a straight razor honed by my own hand.

Still working on it.

You will get there!

 

[Alex Jr]

You can learn allot from a blade like this, but it is also nice to have a razor that shaves as you develop your shaving skills. Doing both at the same time can be a bit frustrating.

For sure. I was excited to shave again tomorrow with a straight. Guess I’m back to my 40s super speed.

Andrej's ebay name is rigarazor21. He's in Lativa, I see he still has two on ebay, the prices are higher than the one I am waiting on to arrive, they have nicer scales.
He's a great guy, and very helpful.
Here's the one I just bought, shipping/taxes total $221
View attachment 1678701

Thank you!

I have also questioned the wisdom of a new gent starting with an extremely low quality razor shaped implement, but I generally keep my mouth shut and let each person make his own decision. I've never owned a Gold Dollar, and I'm sure never will. That doesn't say they cannot be made to shave.. I know that some can, and I know experienced guys that have done it as a challenge, but why should a new guy, already in the deep end of the pool, also have to fight the razor? Particularly when there are many quality razors, some of which may not look like much, which will not hampef a new gent's skills.

But, this is just my opinion.. as always.

Well said. Live and learn. Glad this mistake was cheap. On paper it was so right, look at this mess now.

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

Best option would be one of those Riga razors

I can also vouch for Riga razors with my limited experience with new straight razors. In total, I think I bought about 15-20 pieces from Riga, Koraat, TI, Boker and Ralf Aust. Rigas were the only ones without defects. Koraat came second. Everything else had different defects, some somehow acceptable and others severe. I never got GDs or other budget razors though.

my point was more about an inexperienced user being handicapped by that lack of experience. What is shave ready to someone who has never experienced a true shave-ready razor?

I know, I went though exactly the same thing when I started. I gave up for a few months and was totally disappointed. Then, being a bit frustrated, I had a moment where I told myself "well, worst case I will damage my brand new razors", so I grabbed them and went to the stones. I started honing, from bevel set to finishing. And again, and again, until somehow (I still don't know how), I got a good edge. Then I kept trying until I got better at it, this time paying attention to the details and taking notes when I had good progress.

Now, when I look back, I am smiling knowing how annoying it was but I am happy with the results now and I am convinced straight razors are superior and deserve more recognition.

And for this reason, but also because I (partly) followed your journey and I would like to know that you also manage to get to the point where you're pleased with the results. I wouldn't want you to give up, same as I would also like the OP to learn and enjoy a good straight razor shave.

Is my difficulty my fault, or the razor?

In the case described by Alex Jr, it could very well be both, but one thing is for sure: for a lot of possible reasons, that razor is not ready to shave yet.

Personally, I have never worked as hard to remove facial hair with any other method than I have with a straight razor, and I've gotten razors from three different sources. The best edge I've shaved with is a vintage razor purchased from Griffith, and while it is my best it still doesn't compare to my Feather DX. My next hope (number four) will be a razor that I am sending to Doc for an edge. If that one don't work I will know for certain that the problem is me.

Hence why I wanted to tell you I believe the edges you tried might not be as sharp as you expect. If you shaved with a Feather AC and it shaves well, then an equally sharp straight razor will be similar if angle and pressure are the same, and I do believe that keeping a good angle and managing a proper pressure for at least one stroke is not difficult to achieve, at least until one stroke comparison is made between the two edges.

I hope my message is more clear now, otherwise, we can discuss this via private messaging if you want.

Anyway, I can't help the OP other than to sympathize with his plight, so I will wish him the best and stop junking up his thread.

Yes, I agree. I think we all do and let's wish him a lot of success without polluting his thread.

Alex Jr, I apologise for steering the discussion away from your topic.

Cheers to everyone!

 

[Herrenberg]

I’ll definitely look into that, thank you!



I just did a wobble test and the thing failed. There’s a slight wobble when I checked for it. I watched the drmatt video on it.

Man just thinking about bevel setting and all feels like a nightmare. I know it’s not impossible but from a beginners point of view it’s so overwhelming.

Sometimes I feel like throwing the towel but I won’t, it’s just a setback.

Again, it’s so difficult to access quality material over here, either stones, strops etc… it really feels like a challenge.

I don’t have any stones yet, the one I asked about is this “corundum” Chinese one below. I don’t even know what that means.

Naniwa, shapton or Norton I’d have to source from my parents in Italy.

View attachment 1678672

Do not buy Chinese synthetic stones.

 

[Alex Jr]

Restraint is not a strong point of mine.

Since jumping on the SR bandwagon, I've acquired six vintage razors, four of which were portrayed as shave-ready (and three were, as far as i can tell).

Well, gotta maintain em, right?

I picked up two assortments of film, glass plates, a 1k Shapton, a 4k/8k Norton, a flattening stone, a finishing stone, and a Heirloom Vanilla strop (which, yes, I've managed to slice ).

So, all-in at about 600 bucks give-or-take a Benjamin.

I tried shaving with an edge that I put on a razor and it was just OK, even though it removed random arm hairs without touching the skin. After the second pass I finished with a pre-war Tech.

Anyway, I'm in too deep to throw in the towel, and understand your determination.

Yep, that’s right. I took some time to jump in, I’m not giving up because of a bloody gold dollar.

@Alex Jr, I am sorry to hear of your SR plight.

My understanding is that;

• this was your first SR shave,
• you shaved with your SR directly as-recieved from the honer, no stropping etc.,
• you have (limited) experience shaving with a replaceable blade SR so should understand about shaving pressure, shave angle and skin stretching,
• you have tried testing the blade's edge and found that it would not cut hair in any way,
• you live in Brazil where you have to deal with corruption and inefficiency in your customs/postal services, and
• after your first shave you stropped the SR and it still would not cut hair in any way.

Now my observations:

• The GD66 SR you have appears to be one of their "modern" grinds meaning that it doesn't exhibit any major heel problems that require correction.
• the razor's bevel shown in the photos appears to be in poor condition with striations going all the way to the edge or very near.
• The bevel appears to be of a compound form (double bevel) indicating that a taped spine may have been used in the final stages of honing.
• The blade's edge appears to be rather "chippy".

If reasonably possible, you should send the SR back to the honer. He may have had an off day. What he sent to you does not look good and obviously does not cut hair. The edge should at least shave arm hair, even a pocket knife edge can do that.

Failing the return of the SR to the honer, you have but two options; re-hone the SR yourself or get another SR that is properly and truly shave-ready. Honing yourself is not impossible. You will at the least need some acrylic plate and lapping films. Both can be purchased on AliExpress.

Having a slight warp in a SR is not unusual and can be handled well by an experienced honer or the inexperienced if the honing medium is held in-hand.

I feel partly responsible for you SR shaving dilemma, having been instrumental in helping introduce you to this insidious addiction. PM if you wish to discuss anything in detail.

Thank you for gathering all the info perfectly. I’m considering whether to send it back or not.

I’d love to learn the honing stuff but according to the feedback this looks so bad that I’m afraid I’m not going to be able fix it, according to my zero experience of course.

It’s nice to know I can find that on Aliexpress, I’ll try to search for it right away.

Just one question for you and everyone reading this, the razor went directly from the box to my face and it didn’t cut from the start, I wish I could have taken pictures before the shave, but I didn’t, so I’m left wondering what portion of that damage happened before, during or after?

I didn’t strop before, the shave was totally normal and gentle regarding angle, skin stretching etc nothing that would ruin a razor.

After the shave I took it to the strop with a light hand, slow and steady, keeping the spine always in contact, no twisting, torquing or applying pressure, nothing that would indicate damage. I used the paddle strop posted before.

I mean if that kind of stropping I did ruined the edge shaving my hard wire beard would destroy it to no return. I really don’t get it.

So the question is, looking at the edge, is there a way to say with some confidence how and when it could have happened?

I really wish I had taken pictures before the shave.

 

[rbscebu]

Do not buy Chinese synthetic stones.

Why? I have been using them for a few years now for bevel set and initial refinement and have been more than happy with them. Admittedly you need to watch the stones' flatness more than the more expensive stones, but unless you are honing quite a few SRs each and every week, it adds little to the time spent enjoying your honing.

I just touch up my Csynth stones with a diamond plate after each honing. Sometimes I need to do that during the honing with the lower grits when performing heavy metal removal.

From my 8k Csynth, I normally move onto a 10k Jsynth then 3μm and 1μm films before finishing with my natural of choice or diamond pasted balsa.

 

[Alex Jr]

I can also vouch for Riga razors with my limited experience with new straight razors. In total, I think I bought about 15-20 pieces from Riga, Koraat, TI, Boker and Ralf Aust. Rigas were the only ones without defects. Koraat came second. Everything else had different defects, some somehow acceptable and others severe. I never got GDs or other budget razors though.


I know, I went though exactly the same thing when I started. I gave up for a few months and was totally disappointed. Then, being a bit frustrated, I had a moment where I told myself "well, worst case I will damage my brand new razors", so I grabbed them and went to the stones. I started honing, from bevel set to finishing. And again, and again, until somehow (I still don't know how), I got a good edge. Then I kept trying until I got better at it, this time paying attention to the details and taking notes when I had good progress.

Now, when I look back, I am smiling knowing how annoying it was but I am happy with the results now and I am convinced straight razors are superior and deserve more recognition.

And for this reason, but also because I (partly) followed your journey and I would like to know that you also manage to get to the point where you're pleased with the results. I wouldn't want you to give up, same as I would also like the OP to learn and enjoy a good straight razor shave.


In the case described by Alex Jr, it could very well be both, but one thing is for sure: for a lot of possible reasons, that razor is not ready to shave yet.


Hence why I wanted to tell you I believe the edges you tried might not be as sharp as you expect. If you shaved with a Feather AC and it shaves well, then an equally sharp straight razor will be similar if angle and pressure are the same, and I do believe that keeping a good angle and managing a proper pressure for at least one stroke is not difficult to achieve, at least until one stroke comparison is made between the two edges.

I hope my message is more clear now, otherwise, we can discuss this via private messaging if you want.


Yes, I agree. I think we all do and let's wish him a lot of success without polluting his thread.

Alex Jr, I apologise for steering the discussion away from your topic.

Cheers to everyone!

You’re not steering it, believe me! This is helping a lot, each experience shared adds a lot to the discussion. Please keep at it!

Do not buy Chinese synthetic stones.

That one is out! Good to know.

 

[Loner16]

Most importantly... The internet can be a great tool, but is also rife with misinformation, and downright disinformation. There are some that themselves have just begun their journey not that long ago, and are the greatest purveyors of information for new folks... much of it wrong.
My advice... choose your mentors wisely and carefully. There are many here that are highly competent... follow good advice and seek them out. Everyone is willing to help. Move slowly, at your own pace, and deliberately. Do what is right for you... not what others say you should be doing!
And, have every confidence that you will obtain your objective, as you most definitely will. There may be a few fits and starts, but that's all part of the learning process.. And, most importantly, enjoy yourself.

We've all been there.

 

[Herrenberg]

Why? I have been using them for a few years now for bevel set and initial refinement and have been more than happy with them. Admittedly you need to watch the stones' flatness more than the more expensive stones, but unless you are honing quite a few SRs each and every week, it adds little to the time spent enjoying your honing.

I just touch up my Csynth stones with a diamond plate after each honing. Sometimes I need to do that during the honing with the lower grits when performing heavy metal removal.

From my 8k Csynth, I normally move onto a 10k Jsynth then 3μm and 1μm films before finishing with my natural of choice or diamond pasted balsa.

You are an expert. You can handle their foibles: fast dishing, grit not matching spec, and get some savings.

For non-experts, and especially new honers trying to get everything to work right, I'm sticking with the advice not to buy Chinese synthetic stones.

 

[rbscebu]

Yep, that’s right. I took some time to jump in, I’m not giving up because of a bloody gold dollar.


Thank you for gathering all the info perfectly. I’m considering whether to send it back or not.

I’d love to learn the honing stuff but according to the feedback this looks so bad that I’m afraid I’m not going to be able fix it, according to my zero experience of course.

It’s nice to know I can find that on Aliexpress, I’ll try to search for it right away.

Just one question for you and everyone reading this, the razor went directly from the box to my face and it didn’t cut from the start, I wish I could have taken pictures before the shave, but I didn’t, so I’m left wondering what portion of that damage happened before, during or after?

I didn’t strop before, the shave was totally normal and gentle regarding angle, skin stretching etc nothing that would ruin a razor.

After the shave I took it to the strop with a light hand, slow and steady, keeping the spine always in contact, no twisting, torquing or applying pressure, nothing that would indicate damage. I used the paddle strop posted before.

I mean if that kind of stropping I did ruined the edge shaving my hard wire beard would destroy it to no return. I really don’t get it.

So the question is, looking at the edge, is there a way to say with some confidence how and when it could have happened?

I really wish I had taken pictures before the shave.

It's not easy to tell from the pics you have posted, but from the looks of the bevel, I would say that the "damage" occured during honing.

For instructions on putting a lapping film system together, look here:

Traditional SR Shaving Instructions for Beginners - Issue 7

Attached is the latest issue (issue 7) of Traditional SR Shaving Instructions For Beginners. The instructions have been revised to show the current knowledge and have been split up into parts for easier access. The parts are: SR Shaving Instructions QS Guide Rev A - a Quick-Start guide for...

www.badgerandblade.com

For instructions on how to use them, look here:

Lapping film, try it.

I got some lapping film in a PIF a while ago, 4/8/16/30 equivalent grits. I use them on top of a lapped 8x3" hone, but any flat surface will do. They may not offer the sexy smooth feel of a big dollar hone, but man they are effective, and the edges off the "30k" film is not that unlike a $350...

www.badgerandblade.com

For instructions on setting a bevel, look here:

Setting the Bevel with the Burr Method

The Burr Method of honing is perhaps the method of setting a bevel that is most easily understood perfectly. It is the most sure and positive means of setting a bevel, as the method itself is the proof. There is no guessing and very little subjectivity. It is fairly fast, and easy to learn for a...

www.badgerandblade.com

Before you start with any of the above, I suggest that you perform a Sharpie (marker) pen test on the blade's bevel and post pics of the results here for comment.

 

[Alex Jr]

Most importantly... The internet can be a great tool, but is also rife with misinformation, and downright disinformation. There are some that themselves have just begun their journey not that long ago, and are the greatest purveyors of information for new folks... much of it wrong.
My advice... choose your mentors wisely and carefully. There are many here that are highly competent... follow good advice and seek them out. Everyone is willing to help. Move slowly, at your own pace, and deliberately. Do what is right for you... not what others say you should be doing!
And, have every confidence that you will obtain your objective, as you most definitely will. There may be a few fits and starts, but that's all part of the learning process.. And, most importantly, enjoy yourself.

We've all been there.

Yep, we see this with all the time. Thank you for the kind words.

The destination is nice, but the journey is pure joy for sure.

 

[rbscebu]

You are an expert. You can handle their foibles: fast dishing, grit not matching spec, and get some savings.

For non-experts, and especially new honers trying to get everything to work right, I'm sticking with the advice not to buy Chinese synthetic stones.

I concur with your advice, particularly for a beginner. For economy, I would suggest a lapping film setup before venturing into the more expensive whetstones. A full lapping film setup should cost under US$50 including shipping to Brazil.

Then there is the Brazilian customs corruption that could double the cost.

 

[alex1921]

You are an expert. You can handle their foibles: fast dishing, grit not matching spec, and get some savings.

For non-experts, and especially new honers trying to get everything to work right, I'm sticking with the advice not to buy Chinese synthetic stones.

Buy quality, buy once.

 

[Loner16]

Buy quality, buy once.

Yes!

You will enjoy the quality long after the price is forgotten!

 

[Legion]

Most importantly... The internet can be a great tool, but is also rife with misinformation, and downright disinformation. There are some that themselves have just begun their journey not that long ago, and are the greatest purveyors of information for new folks... much of it wrong.

Amen to this. Speaking it loudly and often doesn't make the information any more valuable.

 

[Rick1500]

Yep, that’s right. I took some time to jump in, I’m not giving up because of a bloody gold dollar.


Thank you for gathering all the info perfectly. I’m considering whether to send it back or not.

I’d love to learn the honing stuff but according to the feedback this looks so bad that I’m afraid I’m not going to be able fix it, according to my zero experience of course.

It’s nice to know I can find that on Aliexpress, I’ll try to search for it right away.

Just one question for you and everyone reading this, the razor went directly from the box to my face and it didn’t cut from the start, I wish I could have taken pictures before the shave, but I didn’t, so I’m left wondering what portion of that damage happened before, during or after?

I didn’t strop before, the shave was totally normal and gentle regarding angle, skin stretching etc nothing that would ruin a razor.

After the shave I took it to the strop with a light hand, slow and steady, keeping the spine always in contact, no twisting, torquing or applying pressure, nothing that would indicate damage. I used the paddle strop posted before.

I mean if that kind of stropping I did ruined the edge shaving my hard wire beard would destroy it to no return. I really don’t get it.

So the question is, looking at the edge, is there a way to say with some confidence how and when it could have happened?

I really wish I had taken pictures before the shave.

After only honing a couple of months, realizing this isn't regular ole knife sharpening, finally getting a half decent progression going, seeing the many different ways and stones to hone, I'm finding out that eventually things do start to come together.

Being shown the bevel angle calculator helped me recently to decide if I wanted to tape or not, finding out how to correct geometry without totally destroying the blade has helped, you just have to keep using the search bar here on the forum when you run into problems, keep asking questions and continue moving forward.

I don't think I've paid over $25 total each for any of the vintage razors on ebay, choose the 'or best offer' option and make an offer to see if you can get them less than the bid price, I've been fortunate to get only a couple that seem tough to hone, I put those at the bottom of the line to try again after I gain more experience.

A usb 'coin' microscope on amazon has been a big help, you have to play with them to find the higher zoom ability.
I'm also happy with the three power loop on amazon also (30x, 60x, 90x power loop).

I have very little experience but from your pics I wouldn't say it's a loss. Chips can be removed, geometry can be corrected, if nothing else you can gain some experience from playing with it.

I guess 'when it happened' isn't so important at this point, seeing if you can reset the bevel and make it happen again or not is to me more important now.

And like you'll see time and time again here, 'shave ready' isn't always what it claims to be.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

It is not complicated, but folks can make it so easily. Learning to hone is all about eliminating as many variables as possible.

You are starting with a razor that historically has issue and needs repair before it can be honed, a box full of variables. Yes, it is inexpensive, but is a false economy, it will need work that you will need to perform, before honing and even then, issues/variables will surface.

Do not compound learning to hone by buying cheap stones from an unknown maker. Buy quality hones. A King 1/6k combo stone is $30, an 8k Snow White, Fuji or Shehiro 10k are about $100, and a $30 300/1k to lap with. With those 3 stone you should be set for honing.

The hones you posted are not high quality, usually smaller, soft, and not at the grit advertised.

Years ago, I advised a new guy who lived in South America and lamented the lack of shaving razors and gear. I advised him to contact local barbers to ask about old gear and about other retired barbers. Story short, he found a fountain of razors, stones and strops from old guys who knew how to use them and happily willing to give it away, to a new guy wanting to learn.

 

[Alex Jr]

After only honing a couple of months, realizing this isn't regular ole knife sharpening, finally getting a half decent progression going, seeing the many different ways and stones to hone, I'm finding out that eventually things do start to come together.

Being shown the bevel angle calculator helped me recently to decide if I wanted to tape or not, finding out how to correct geometry without totally destroying the blade has helped, you just have to keep using the search bar here on the forum when you run into problems, keep asking questions and continue moving forward.

I don't think I've paid over $25 total each for any of the vintage razors on ebay, choose the 'or best offer' option and make an offer to see if you can get them less than the bid price, I've been fortunate to get only a couple that seem tough to hone, I put those at the bottom of the line to try again after I gain more experience.

A usb 'coin' microscope on amazon has been a big help, you have to play with them to find the higher zoom ability.
I'm also happy with the three power loop on amazon also (30x, 60x, 90x power loop).

I have very little experience but from your pics I wouldn't say it's a loss. Chips can be removed, geometry can be corrected, if nothing else you can gain some experience from playing with it.

I guess 'when it happened' isn't so important at this point, seeing if you can reset the bevel and make it happen again or not is to me more important now.

And like you'll see time and time again here, 'shave ready' isn't always what it claims to be.

I'll do just that, one step at a time. Always watch out for that shave ready myth, for sure.

It is not complicated, but folks can make it so easily. Learning to hone is all about eliminating as many variables as possible.

You are starting with a razor that historically has issue and needs repair before it can be honed, a box full of variables. Yes, it is inexpensive, but is a false economy, it will need work that you will need to perform, before honing and even then, issues/variables will surface.

Do not compound learning to hone by buying cheap stones from an unknown maker. Buy quality hones. A King 1/6k combo stone is $30, an 8k Snow White, Fuji or Shehiro 10k are about $100, and a $30 300/1k to lap with. With those 3 stone you should be set for honing.

The hones you posted are not high quality, usually smaller, soft, and not at the grit advertised.

Years ago, I advised a new guy who lived in South America and lamented the lack of shaving razors and gear. I advised him to contact local barbers to ask about old gear and about other retired barbers. Story short, he found a fountain of razors, stones and strops from old guys who knew how to use them and happily willing to give it away, to a new guy wanting to learn.

Good advice right there. I'll stay away from that stones for sure. When it's time, I'll jump right into a better option. I think I can find kings here, not so sure but I'll look into it.

Even those barbers are very hard to find today, most of them are not working anymore and the new ones are all about shavettes and flat caps. Sad, but true.

Thank you once again.

 

[Alex Jr]

Gentleman,

Considering a REAL shave ready razor, what would you get as a first stone setup? Is is possible to (initially) start with one stone?
I'm just studying the options.

I've seen the Norton 4k/8k
Naniwa has a 3k/8k combo also.
And of course the naniwa 12k or shapton 12k.

Again, with a real shave ready razor, to be able to keep it sharp, is it possible to select ONE stone only? if so, what option from above do you think would be the most adequate one?

I know the best of the best would be a lower grit combo+12k finishing, but I'm trying to keep the initial costs down.

Thank you once again.