Muhle STF XL - It is that good!

[Obetron Rex]

I wouldn't want to risk the knot taking it out. It works perfectly and the small excess silicone is hard to see unless zoomed in. It has no effect and suits me as it is. It will remind me next time to use less silicone. I like the STF XL knot.

 

[merovirginian]

So if using RTV silicone, you can literally just yank the knot out of the handle?
No steaming, no tools?

This sounds like a great way to set knots!

As others have said, yes. With a little dollop of silicone, you can set a knot and try out the height. With some dedicating pulling, it can pop out (the more silicone used, the more effort it can take to pull the knot though). There can be some silicone residue in the handle bore as well, but that can be scraped out. Once you are happy with the knot height/depth (I cut my own wood spacers using a regular handsaw), you can set it more permanently. For me, I just use more RTV silicone (say, three 'dollops'). Years and years later, if the knot ever falls out, guess what I can do? Use more silicone. A silicone-d knot falling out has never happened to me though (but it did happen to a commercial boar brush I bought in 1994 and the knot fell out in 2014).

Now, for the Muhle, I don't use spacers or anything fancy—it has a bit more depth/height in the base than most knots, if that makes sense (that plastic holder it comes in is 'deeper' than the typical glue base holding a 'standard' knot in place).

I am a (very happy) sucker for a custom handle, so I appreciate being able to get the Muhle knots now.

I was turned on to using RTV silicone when a custom handle maker said that's what he used to set knots and never had any problems. Epoxy is certainly more permanent and stronger if that's an issue/desire.

 

[nav]

As others have said, yes. With a little dollop of silicone, you can set a knot and try out the height. With some dedicating pulling, it can pop out (the more silicone used, the more effort it can take to pull the knot though). There can be some silicone residue in the handle bore as well, but that can be scraped out. Once you are happy with the knot height/depth (I cut my own wood spacers using a regular handsaw), you can set it more permanently. For me, I just use more RTV silicone (say, three 'dollops'). Years and years later, if the knot ever falls out, guess what I can do? Use more silicone. A silicone-d knot falling out has never happened to me though (but it did happen to a commercial boar brush I bought in 1994 and the knot fell out in 2014).

Now, for the Muhle, I don't use spacers or anything fancy—it has a bit more depth/height in the base than most knots, if that makes sense (that plastic holder it comes in is 'deeper' than the typical glue base holding a 'standard' knot in place).

I am a (very happy) sucker for a custom handle, so I appreciate being able to get the Muhle knots now.

I was turned on to using RTV silicone when a custom handle maker said that's what he used to set knots and never had any problems. Epoxy is certainly more permanent and stronger if that's an issue/desire.

Great, thanks for the details!

I'll start with just a tiny dot of RTV silicone and a rubber band around the base.

Once I've decided on permanent knot and loft setting, I'll use the full amount to set the knot.

I use nylon washers to increase the loft.
They weigh nothing and are easy to get from any hardware store.

 

[Obetron Rex]

I recall reading on the AP Shave Co. website they only use GE Silicone to set knots.

 

[spacemonkey42]

By "a little dollop of silicone" do you mean on the side of the cup? What if the knot is not going to the bottom of the hole?

I ask because I put quite a bit of silicone into a handle into which I set a G5C, because they sit a lot higher and the hole was way too deep.

 

[merovirginian]

By "a little dollop of silicone" do you mean on the side of the cup? What if the knot is not going to the bottom of the hole?

I ask because I put quite a bit of silicone into a handle into which I set a G5C, because they sit a lot higher and the hole was way too deep.

I place the silicone on the bottom. A dollop will hold the knot for a while. A "triple" dollop or so, where the whole base is glued in, should hold no matter how deep the hole. If you have difficulty getting the dollop in, you could just put it directly on the bottom of the knot base. For the larger amount, I just squeeze that amount in and let gravity (or using a nail) get it into the bottom. I don't smooth out the silicone at all; I just push the knot in and let the silicone do its job. I don't want to hijack this thread though or stray too far off topic.

 

[Obetron Rex]

I really loved that STF XL knot brush I made, so I decided to make another. This time I didn't use too much silicone and got it perfect! Had this custom star spangled ribbon handle made up for me and I set it at 56mm loft. I think this will be my new favorite brush!

 

[muzichead]

Well I am like 6-7 shaves in now with the new STF XL knot I purchased from @Rudy Vey and think this knot is right on schedule to being something that will stay in the rotation unlike the ShaveMac/APShaveCo version which as I documented was just a horrible experience and left me wondering what everyone saw in the STF XL and why it was so popular!!

The knot itself seems to be softening up some as I don't seem to be fighting with it to get it to splay in the last couple lathers. To date it has only shed 1 fiber that I've noticed as I've been keeping a really close eye on this one... As with the last one, I haven't had a problem in creating and building a very usable lather that is very much on par with the rest of my brushes, just the length of time is the difference though very minor.

Overall I'd say in my opinion if the knot itself was an actual fan I believe I never would've had a problem splaying or lathering with the 1st go round but between the handle, ShaveMac Beehive, and STF bulb it just was a failure for me and why I had to disect it to get a better idea of why it was so far off to me. My 1st incling was the loft which I think I set this one about 2mm higher and put it in a handle with a larger inner diameter than what was suggested it be set in. The handle itself, Chisel & Hound, is a major improvement to me and much more comfortable to use. Other than those minor items I think the future looks prosperous for this one and I'm sure it'll just get better, but I'm open to just use it for now and wait and see how it all unfolds... It's got a ways to go to catch up to a couple I've been using for a while and especially the Wald A1 Calyx I have. I think the Calyx splays when you just look at it!!

 

[muzichead]

Haven't used the C&H STF XL in over a week and todays lather went very nice... I am most sure this is a keeper!!

Ti Blackbird / Bic CP / Frozen Tundra / C&H STF XL / Proraso Green

 

[nav]

I've mentioned this elsewhere but I really don't like the current Muhle STF fibre.

Their previous versions were amazing, my favourite in fact!

The current fibre feels like very fine cotton!!

I am now preferring the G5A and G5C to the Muhle STF. They both give more face presence rather than feeling like a cotton ball!

 

[rsp1202]

I've mentioned this elsewhere but I really don't like the current Muhle STF fibre.

Their previous versions were amazing, my favourite in fact!

The current fibre feels like very fine cotton!!

I am now preferring the G5A and G5C to the Muhle STF. They both give more face presence rather than feeling like a cotton ball!

Are you talking about the new plant-based fiber STF? If you mean the older version, I wonder what changed and when.

I've settled in comfortably with mine from early last year, I'm hoping to get a new APShaveCo MIG knot as backup, and will wait to see how things pan out with Muhle.

 

[nav]

Are you talking about the new plant-based fiber STF? If you mean the older version, I wonder what changed and when.

I've settled in comfortably with mine from early last year, I'm hoping to get a new APShaveCo MIG knot as backup, and will wait to see how things pan out with Muhle.

I'm referring to the STF fibre post covid basically.

Prior to that, the tips had some face presence and was such an incredible & unique fibre.

I got an XL post covid and it was as soft as a cotton ball. I sold it immediately!

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

Well I am like 6-7 shaves in now with the new STF XL knot I purchased from @Rudy Vey and think this knot is right on schedule to being something that will stay in the rotation unlike the ShaveMac/APShaveCo version which as I documented was just a horrible experience and left me wondering what everyone saw in the STF XL and why it was so popular!!

The knot itself seems to be softening up some as I don't seem to be fighting with it to get it to splay in the last couple lathers. To date it has only shed 1 fiber that I've noticed as I've been keeping a really close eye on this one... As with the last one, I haven't had a problem in creating and building a very usable lather that is very much on par with the rest of my brushes, just the length of time is the difference though very minor.

Overall I'd say in my opinion if the knot itself was an actual fan I believe I never would've had a problem splaying or lathering with the 1st go round but between the handle, ShaveMac Beehive, and STF bulb it just was a failure for me and why I had to disect it to get a better idea of why it was so far off to me. My 1st incling was the loft which I think I set this one about 2mm higher and put it in a handle with a larger inner diameter than what was suggested it be set in. The handle itself, Chisel & Hound, is a major improvement to me and much more comfortable to use. Other than those minor items I think the future looks prosperous for this one and I'm sure it'll just get better, but I'm open to just use it for now and wait and see how it all unfolds... It's got a ways to go to catch up to a couple I've been using for a while and especially the Wald A1 Calyx I have. I think the Calyx splays when you just look at it!!

View attachment 1794677

You would have done well to reach out to Andrew about the loft on your Shavemac STF.

I asked him about raising the loft by 2 mm (to 56). He commented that with the width of the Shavemac handle, that 54mm balanced it in out nicely.

I took his advice and just received mine today. I have to say that he nailed it. I'm only one shave in, but I doubt I could tell the difference in a blindfold test between the AP Shave Co/Shavemac/STF and my 25mm STF in a Mühle Classic handle.

If there's any difference between the two, it might be that Andrew's feels the slightest bit more precise, but that's splitting hairs (pun intended) in search of finding the smallest of differences between the two.

Sometimes, it pays to take the advice of the experts, whether it's @Rudy Vey or @apshaveco.

Both of these fine fellows know their stuff and deliver the goods.

... Thom

 

[muzichead]

You would have done well to reach out to Andrew about the loft on your Shavemac STF.

I asked him about raising the loft by 2 mm (to 56). He commented that with the width of the Shavemac handle, that 54mm balanced it in out nicely.

I took his advice and just received mine today. I have to say that he nailed it. I'm only one shave in, but I doubt I could tell the difference in a blindfold test between the AP Shave Co/Shavemac/STF and my 25mm STF in a Mühle Classic handle.

If there's any difference between the two, it might be that Andrew's feels the slightest bit more precise, but that's splitting hairs (pun intended) in search of finding the smallest of differences between the two.

Sometimes, it pays to take the advice of the experts, whether it's @Rudy Vey or @apshaveco.

Both of these fine fellows know their stuff and deliver the goods.

... Thom

Andrew and I spoke about the problems I was having and I just felt it wasn't worth sending back to him so that is why I dissected it and glad I did as the info I found helped with me setting my new one from Rudy. I think 2 factors of the Shavemac combo stood out in that the handle inside diameter wasn't right for the knot and the depth he set it at just made the combo unuseable for me. It was just too far in the handle and 54mm loft just was stiff!!

The Chisel & Hound handle I used had an inside diameter of just over 27mm and I used an o-ring around the cup to secure it tightly in the handle. Setting the knot at 56mm or just slightly more, don't remember exactly, allowed the knot to open up more while splaying and felt much more natural to me. I am enjoying the brush much more and although it has shed 1 hair it's not a shedder like the Shavemac combo was... Every shave it was shedding multiple hairs and I just won't tolerate a shedding brush at all...

 

[Andris83]

just got the STF XL with the classic handle. 1st shave in 2 days, as I have already shaved this morning.

 

[muzichead]

Ti Blackbird / Perma-Sharp / Ethos Shave MD / C&H STF XL / Proraso Green

 

[Andris83]

The first shave is in the books with the OG STF XL. first impressions: this is the softest feeling knot I have, including other more floppier brushes. It has no scritch, it doesn't even have scrub imo. I haven't expected this tbh until @nav mentioned it. Whether this is something you want is YMMV. This brush will not cause brush burn for sure, but it has good backbone, and the knot is quite dense. So it might be just what some people are after. Splay is exceptional for a synth and it is not one bit springy. Lather release is just "ok", I have brushes both synth and natural that release lather way more easily. This STF needs some convincing to give it up. I suppose this is because of the density. It held 3 passes worth of lather easily, I think it could hold even more. Finally the handle, I haven't bought the Classic for a long time, because I thought it wouldn't fit my hands and it would not have good grip. This is not the case, although the handle is on the smaller side, grip is quite secure, even better than other brushes that I thought would have better grip by the looks.
I will use it more and try to make a comparison with the EJ STF XL and FS Pur-tech.

 

[muzichead]

FFFMM 3/1

Ti Blackbird / Perma-Sharp / Frozen Tundra / C&H STF XL

 

[nav]

The first shave is in the books with the OG STF XL. first impressions: this is the softest feeling knot I have, including other more floppier brushes. It has no scritch, it doesn't even have scrub imo. I haven't expected this tbh until @nav mentioned it. Whether this is something you want is YMMV. This brush will not cause brush burn for sure, but it has good backbone, and the knot is quite dense. So it might be just what some people are after. Splay is exceptional for a synth and it is not one bit springy. Lather release is just "ok", I have brushes both synth and natural that release lather way more easily. This STF needs some convincing to give it up. I suppose this is because of the density. It held 3 passes worth of lather easily, I think it could hold even more. Finally the handle, I haven't bought the Classic for a long time, because I thought it wouldn't fit my hands and it would not have good grip. This is not the case, although the handle is on the smaller side, grip is quite secure, even better than other brushes that I thought would have better grip by the looks.
I will use it more and try to make a comparison with the EJ STF XL and FS Pur-tech.
View attachment 1804683

Yeah, as good as the STF is, the current fibre just had zero scrub. It's more like a cotton ball and nothing unique like the STF fibre used to be.

The pur-tech is the exact same fibre as the older Muhle STF. Only problem with it was the huge glue bumps. Other than that, the pur-tech (i.e. Older Muhle/EJ STF) is by far the best synthetic fibre made!

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

Yeah, as good as the STF is, the current fibre just had zero scrub. It's more like a cotton ball and nothing unique like the STF fibre used to be.

The pur-tech is the exact same fibre as the older Muhle STF. Only problem with it was the huge glue bumps. Other than that, the pur-tech (i.e. Older Muhle/EJ STF) is by far the best synthetic fibre made!

Horses for courses. I take it that a Wald A1 wouldn't float your boat then?

Perhaps there's a subtlety that escapes me. I log 3-4 minutes of brush time on my face (face lathering) and if a brush was any stiffer than the current STF, I wouldn't like it.

... Thom