Jay21's Journey Journal

[blethenstrom]

Hopefully, but I have low expectations. I've lathered other soaps in the past with too much water but they still retained their scent and moisture properties. I did a quick search on Colonel Conk reviews, and it seems they changed their formula not too long ago and others have experienced what I have. I guess the reviews I read earlier were about their older formula, which was quite good.

This got my interest that they changed formula. I did some digging and I found an old ingredient list here on B&B by @Luc from 2008. This is what it had back then.

• Triethanalamine
• SLES (a variation of Sodium Lauteth Sulfite)
• DI water
• Propylene Glycol
• Soap Flakes
• Stearic Acid
• Tatrasoddium EDTA
• Polysorbate-20
• Color
• Fragrance

Here is the new one from their website. Please make sure that is what you have on yours.

It is interesting because they went from a much more chemically intense detergent based shave soap to an actual "real soap" and they made it worse in the process. The old one uses the staple SLES detergent and a bunch of other things and yes they do make it lather like crazy. Usually companies goes from a "real soap" to a detergent based soap. Not the other way around.

However, when they did the new formula they list Sodium Palm Kernelate first, which is saponified Palm Kernel Oil which is low in both Stearic and Palmitic Acid. Now the second ingredient is Palm oil which is high in Palmitic acid, but it does not seem like this soap have high enough stearic/palmitic acid percentage in it to make a great lathering soap. Also I do not find any Coconut oil and they probably should have at least a bit. Also no castor oil to help with lather stability. It is a dual lye soap, but I think that this will not be a good shave soap. Sorry.... I can and I do make a better shave soap than this and I am certainly no soap expert.

I did an estimate of what their ratios could have been based on the position on the ingredient list. The most important value for shave soap the the "Creamy" properties. This is how well this gives you a nice thick lather. The "bubbly" is the bubbly type lather. You want a little of that, but not too much. The "bubbly" is fine, but the "creamy" needs to be in the 55,60 or even higher to have a great lathering soap. I hope all this made sense.

 

[Jay21]

This got my interest that they changed formula. I did some digging and I found an old ingredient list here on B&B by @Luc from 2008. This is what it had back then.

• Triethanalamine
• SLES (a variation of Sodium Lauteth Sulfite)
• DI water
• Propylene Glycol
• Soap Flakes
• Stearic Acid
• Tatrasoddium EDTA
• Polysorbate-20
• Color
• Fragrance

Here is the new one from their website. Please make sure that is what you have on yours.
View attachment 1819434

It is interesting because they went from a much more chemically intense detergent based shave soap to an actual "real soap" and they made it worse in the process. The old one uses the staple SLES detergent and a bunch of other things and yes they do make it lather like crazy. Usually companies goes from a "real soap" to a detergent based soap. Not the other way around.

However, when they did the new formula they list Sodium Palm Kernelate first, which is saponified Palm Kernel Oil which is low in both Stearic and Palmitic Acid. Now the second ingredient is Palm oil which is high in Palmitic acid, but it does not seem like this soap have high enough stearic/palmitic acid percentage in it to make a great lathering soap. Also I do not find any Coconut oil and they probably should have at least a bit. Also no castor oil to help with lather stability. It is a dual lye soap, but I think that this will not be a good shave soap. Sorry.... I can and I do make a better shave soap than this and I am certainly no soap expert.

I did an estimate of what their ratios could have been based on the position on the ingredient list. The most important value for shave soap the the "Creamy" properties. This is how well this gives you a nice thick lather. The "bubbly" is the bubbly type lather. You want a little of that, but not too much. The "bubbly" is fine, but the "creamy" needs to be in the 55,60 or even higher to have a great lathering soap. I hope all this made sense.
View attachment 1819443

You are definitely the soap whisperer! Thanks for the detailed breakdown. In terms of the Colonel, and using the words from Darth Vader about Obi-wan, his failure is complete.

Edit: those are the ingredients on my soap packaging.

 

[thombrogan]

Very sorry to read your bay rum Conk was a dud, @Jay21 I got the version just before yours and it was an improvement over the previous which was also good, but they were always all slickness and no cushion and I snagged the unscented and the Bay Rum from them.

I guess they want to drive business to VDH and ARKO! now?

 

[Jay21]

Very sorry to read your bay rum Conk was a dud, @Jay21 I got the version just before yours and it was an improvement over the previous which was also good, but they were always all slickness and no cushion and I snagged the unscented and the Bay Rum from them.

I guess they want to drive business to VDH and ARKO! now?

I'll try it again tomorrow using considerably less water, but uncle Boris @blethenstrom nailed it. The lather was nothing more than a thin and bubbly froth. Maybe less water will thicken that up, but I don't really think it will. I didn't use that much water to begin with. Less than I used with VDH and Arko. At least I can use it in the shower as a body soap if it fails as a shaving soap.

 

[blethenstrom]

I'll try it again tomorrow using considerably less water, but uncle Boris @blethenstrom nailed it. The lather was nothing more than a thin and bubbly froth. Maybe less water will thicken that up, but I don't really think it will. I didn't use that much water to begin with. Less than I used with VDH and Arko. At least I can use it in the shower as a body soap if it fails as a shaving soap.

That is what I do with my failed shave soaps.

 

[Jay21]

I want to put an image in your head. During my cartridge days, there were plenty of mornings when I would take a squirt of liquid hand soap, lather it in my hands, and smear it on my face.

Col. Conk is basically that, but it’s worse because it costs more, is actually labeled as a shaving product, and it requires work with a brush to achieve that level of mediocrity.

@blethenstrom was spot on that it’s just a bubbly froth. It quickly dissipates, and @thombrogan was also right in that it’s all slickness with any body, cushion, or luxury (my words). Since it’s so thin, it has no ability to lift my whiskers off the skin, so my shave wasn’t particularly close, either. There’s not much the
Colonel can offer me at this point.

If that was my desired target, I’d skip the brush and use Cremo or something similar. I really have come to enjoy smearing soapy magic over my face every morning with the brush.

This formula may be exactly what someone is looking for and, if so, I hope the Colonel sells lots of pucks. But, it’s not going to work for me, so into the shower it goes as a body soap.

 

[Eric_75]

During my cartridge days, there were plenty of mornings when I would take a squirt of liquid hand soap, lather it in my hands, and smear it on my face.

I can't say I've ever tried to shave with liquid hand soap.

 

[blethenstrom]

I can't say I've ever tried to shave with liquid hand soap.

Neither have I. Some say though that hair conditioner works really well as a latherless shaving cream, but I do not think I have it in me to try it out.

 

[Jay21]

I can't say I've ever tried to shave with liquid hand soap.

It works when in a hurry, but it's not something you want to do regularly. I also did this when I traveled. It's all about slickness and there's nothing luxurious about it. It's passable with cartridges that have a lubricating strip, but I wouldn't do it with a DE or straight razor.

 

[Jay21]

Neither have I. Some say though that hair conditioner works really well as a latherless shaving cream, but I do not think I have it in me to try it out.

I don't either. I really like the creaminess and luxury that a good soap or canned foam provides.

 

[Eric_75]

Neither have I. Some say though that hair conditioner works really well as a latherless shaving cream, but I do not think I have it in me to try it out.

Yeah, that's not something I ever see myself trying.

 

[Eric_75]

I have tried shaving with regular Noxzema Original Cream before. Not a good experience at all.

 

[thombrogan]

A thick yet watered down slick of Noxzema was a mixed bag for me. The shave was to my abilities, but I liked the feeling of huffing cough drops and Wifey hated the stank of the soy oil.

Proraso Green doesn’t have that stank, so it’s munny well spent for me.

 

[cranewarrior]

It works when in a hurry, but it's not something you want to do regularly. I also did this when I traveled. It's all about slickness and there's nothing luxurious about it. It's passable with cartridges that have a lubricating strip, but I wouldn't do it with a DE or straight razor.

Neither have I. Some say though that hair conditioner works really well as a latherless shaving cream, but I do not think I have it in me to try it out.

I can't say I've ever tried to shave with liquid hand soap.

So I am a weirdo that likes to do things off the beaten path. I actually read here that someone had a good experience with hand soap, so I have tried that and hair conditioner as well. I don't like the hand soap, at least the Dial brand I tried. It makes this bubbly, slick lather but there is no cushioning at all. I get better results with just plain Ivory bar soap other than the vanishing lather issue.

Shaving with hair conditioner gives you a lot of slickness and even cushion, but it's a sticky cut that I think detracts from the closeness of the shaves I get. Also the cut whiskers really clump together and are hard to rinse off while you are shaving, so it detracts from your efficiency. I also find that I have to scrub my razor with my fingers to clean it instead of an easy rinse.

All three (hand soap, bath soap, conditioner) work in an emergency but I do not think they are optimal solutions to face shaving.

That said I do enjoy mixing bath soap like Ivory or Dove + Men with my Arko.

 

[Jay21]

So I am a weirdo that likes to do things off the beaten path. I actually read here that someone had a good experience with hand soap, so I have tried that and hair conditioner as well. I don't like the hand soap, at least the Dial brand I tried. It makes this bubbly, slick lather but there is no cushioning at all. I get better results with just plain Ivory bar soap other than the vanishing lather issue.

Shaving with hair conditioner gives you a lot of slickness and even cushion, but it's a sticky cut that I think detracts from the closeness of the shaves I get. Also the cut whiskers really clump together and are hard to rinse off while you are shaving, so it detracts from your efficiency. I also find that I have to scrub my razor with my fingers to clean it instead of an easy rinse.

All three (hand soap, bath soap, conditioner) work in an emergency but I do not think they are optimal solutions to face shaving.

That said I do enjoy mixing bath soap like Ivory or Dove + Men with my Arko.

Shaving was a chore in the past and something I did as rarely as possible. I maybe shaved 2-3 times a week and I wanted it to be as quick as possible. That's why I resorted to liquid hand soap at times. Now, I enjoy shaving and like the luxury of creamy lather on my face. Arko is about as good as it gets for me.

 

[cranewarrior]

Shaving was a chore in the past and something I did as rarely as possible. I maybe shaved 2-3 times a week and I wanted it to be as quick as possible. That's why I resorted to liquid hand soap at times. Now, I enjoy shaving and like the luxury of creamy lather on my face. Arko is about as good as it gets for me.

I'm a methodical learner. I like to understand the basics before moving onto time-saving or luxury features and measures. So my first razors are all budget ones and I've spent a decent amount of time shaving with just plain Ivory soap. Now I have got some Arko, Clubman, Cella, and Vitos, and I am investigating razors in the $100 range. Eventually, I'll look at the artisan soaps and maybe a high end razor.

Progression with purpose.

I will say I have learned price and good experience do not have to go hand-in-hand. There's probably a lot of truth to the idea that a higher price also fetches you a higher baseline of performance, but we're talking shaving not something else like jet engines. You can definitely get great, comfortable shaves with a humble Baili BT131. It just won't feel tactilely as nice in your hand as a high end razor.

 

[Jay21]

I'm a methodical learner. I like to understand the basics before moving onto time-saving or luxury features and measures. So my first razors are all budget ones and I've spent a decent amount of time shaving with just plain Ivory soap. Now I have got some Arko, Clubman, Cella, and Vitos, and I am investigating razors in the $100 range. Eventually, I'll look at the artisan soaps and maybe a high end razor.

Progression with purpose.

I will say I have learned price and good experience do not have to go hand-in-hand. There's probably a lot of truth to the idea that a higher price also fetches you a higher baseline of performance, but we're talking shaving not something else like jet engines. You can definitely get great, comfortable shaves with a humble Baili BT131. It just won't feel tactilely as nice in your hand as a high end razor.

I went down a major rabbit hole with razors. My most expensive ones are stainless RazoRocks, and I don't regret those for a second. I'm still learning the soaps, too, but I don't feel the need to pay more than $3 per ounce for one, especially when Arko is so good.

 

[cranewarrior]

I went down a major rabbit hole with razors. My most expensive ones are stainless RazoRocks, and I don't regret those for a second. I'm still learning the soaps, too, but I don't feel the need to pay more than $3 per ounce for one, especially when Arko is so good.

I'm considering a few Razorocks on Italian Barber. Do you recommend a particular model?

I'm looking for a clear upgrade from the lower end razors I have been using. For example I have an Edwin Jagger DE98 that is likely zamak and clones of the DE89 as well as the Muhle R89. There's really no difference in feel or performance that I can perceive between the clones and their inspiration product.

I'm thinking there is indeed an upgrade in experience available around the $100 mark.

 

[Jay21]

I'm considering a few Razorocks on Italian Barber. Do you recommend a particular model?

I'm looking for a clear upgrade from the lower end razors I have been using. For example I have an Edwin Jagger DE98 that is likely zamak and clones of the DE89 as well as the Muhle R89. There's really no difference in feel or performance that I can perceive between the clones and their inspiration product.

I'm thinking there is indeed an upgrade in experience available around the $100 mark.

The Game Changers and the Lupos shave very similarly to each other, but I prefer the Lupos for the sole reason that the safety bar is only as wide as the blade, which makes lining up each stroke a little more precise.

If you like EJ and Muhle, you might like the RazoRock MJ-90A, which is a more aggressive version of the 89 head. It's CNC'd aluminum. I don't particularly care for aluminum razors, but I like the MJ-90A, so that says something.

 

[cajunrph]

I'm considering a few Razorocks on Italian Barber. Do you recommend a particular model?

I'm looking for a clear upgrade from the lower end razors I have been using. For example I have an Edwin Jagger DE98 that is likely zamak and clones of the DE89 as well as the Muhle R89. There's really no difference in feel or performance that I can perceive between the clones and their inspiration product.

I'm thinking there is indeed an upgrade in experience available around the $100 mark.

Razors can far exceed $100, but what I found is the Vintage Gillette razors work well enough that I am pursuing them. I had a Rex Envoy, a $150 razor, it was a great razor and I never had a poor shave with it. At one point in time, the Rex was my go-to razor for new blades, then a 1948 Gillette Super Speed found its way to my house, and a 1967 Gillette Adjustable Slim too. I gradually began to prefer the Super Speed, and to a lesser extent the Slim, over my other razors to the point now, the Rex is gone, and my Yates 'Merica is on the chopping block. The high-end Athena razors look fantastic and are certainly appealing. To me, I'd prefer a fleet of Super Speeds to one high-end razor. I've thought of a RazoRock Game Changer and a Goodfellas Smiles Bayonette, both modern razors but again, the Super Speeds seem to call me back to them time and time again. That is not to say a Gamechanger or a Bayonette (or both) won't make its way to my house in the future, more vintage Gillettes certainly will.