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- #61
So should they be removed from the Wiki of English made razors?
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Gillette Single Rings with British Patent Numbers
- Thread starter GBinOZ
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So should they be removed from the Wiki of English made razors?
I would leave them there just for now, but what we should probably do for now is add a "Remarks" column to the table. I'm suspicious of those razors as well, since, to the best of our knowledge, the ABC razors were only made in the US. However, I think the primary (or perhaps the only) oddity that has them linked with the British plant is the way that they're double-stamped with the diamond logo, which was never done in the States, as far as we know.
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- #63
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- #64
I heard back from the eBay vendor in Turkey. Here is some of what he said:
"I was collecting all kind of Gillette razors until last month,but now I gave up and selling them all one by one.But anyway I am still trying to learn about these razors.
I had searched for more information about these British patented Gillettes but I couldn't reach reliable data as I expected.British patented Gillettes differ in the dating rules and so serial numbers as you know better than me.I wasn't expecting to find a "H" letter stamped Br.Pat.razor and I don't think that it belongs to 1918 as the US Dating says.I wonder this dating mystery of British Gillettes really.
I bought these razors from a collector friend here in Turkey.I know that he bought the set from France,but for the other single razor I am not sure,will ask him again and tell you."
"I was collecting all kind of Gillette razors until last month,but now I gave up and selling them all one by one.But anyway I am still trying to learn about these razors.
I had searched for more information about these British patented Gillettes but I couldn't reach reliable data as I expected.British patented Gillettes differ in the dating rules and so serial numbers as you know better than me.I wasn't expecting to find a "H" letter stamped Br.Pat.razor and I don't think that it belongs to 1918 as the US Dating says.I wonder this dating mystery of British Gillettes really.
I bought these razors from a collector friend here in Turkey.I know that he bought the set from France,but for the other single razor I am not sure,will ask him again and tell you."
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- #66
Here is another interesting one that escaped my clutches when it finished a day early. It wasn't Buy It Now originally. It was starting price $39.90 and no bids. Grrr.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Safety-r...SgQcy%2BQ8SyXuU%2BNfc%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
It has an F serial number on the outer cylinder and a Patent Number on the top of the inner cylinder, but I can't tell which patent number. Although cases are no always reliable, it is interesting that is is in a script case.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Safety-r...SgQcy%2BQ8SyXuU%2BNfc%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
It has an F serial number on the outer cylinder and a Patent Number on the top of the inner cylinder, but I can't tell which patent number. Although cases are no always reliable, it is interesting that is is in a script case.
Now that's a truly strange beast. If it weren't for the U.S. patent date on the inner barrel (below) I would never have even remotely guessed that an American connection was possible there. Even as it is I would be more inclined to believe it was made somewhere else and just marked with the U.S. patent for some reason. I've never seen anything even remotely like that in a clearly American-made Single Ring set, but that exact style of marking (patent date aside) is what we'd consider "normal" from the Leicester plant.
It's also worth pointing out that the "G-inside-D" mark on this one is more of a "G" in a straight square.
BTW, did you get sorted out on how to edit that wiki page? I can help you out if you're still stuck there.
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- #68
However, I think the primary (or perhaps the only) oddity that has them linked with the British plant is the way that they're double-stamped with the diamond logo, which was never done in the States, as far as we know.
Here is one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gillette-Dia...p2047675.l2557
Here is another:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...his-Old-Type?p=5199991&highlight=#post5199991
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I can't imaging that tooling up to stamp these parts in this radically different way would have been a trivial matter, and I certainly can't see any reason why the Boston plant would have any reason to have stamped razors bound (seemingly exclusively) for the French market any differently than they were stamping their own standard razors -- aside from the possibly legally required "G-inside-D" mark.
I wonder if we're possibly seeing some kind of fallout in the shadow of the French revocation of Gillette's patent rights, if, in fact, Russel is correct on that point. One thing I notice on the later ABC cases is that the entry for France reads "Bts. S. G. du C" where on the older ones it gives the "July 3, 03" date.
I haven't had any luck in tracking down what that "S. G. du C" would have meant -- what you'd expect would be "S. G. D. G." for "sans garantie du gouvernement." My understanding is that this marking indicated that a patent was registered with the French government, but that the government disclaimed any liability for its safe or proper working as French patents were issued "without screening, at the risk of applicants, and without warranty as to the existence, novelty or merit of the invention, or the truth or accuracy of the description."
I have seen some sources who seemed to believe that the S.G.D.G mark meant that it wasn't protected, but as far as I can tell that is incorrect. I almost wonder if Russel made that mistake, but then that would also lead us back to wondering why we'd have these several examples of razors all presumably from the French market, marked as though they were made in the British plant, stamped with the American patent date.
I think I need a drink...
I wonder if we're possibly seeing some kind of fallout in the shadow of the French revocation of Gillette's patent rights, if, in fact, Russel is correct on that point. One thing I notice on the later ABC cases is that the entry for France reads "Bts. S. G. du C" where on the older ones it gives the "July 3, 03" date.
I haven't had any luck in tracking down what that "S. G. du C" would have meant -- what you'd expect would be "S. G. D. G." for "sans garantie du gouvernement." My understanding is that this marking indicated that a patent was registered with the French government, but that the government disclaimed any liability for its safe or proper working as French patents were issued "without screening, at the risk of applicants, and without warranty as to the existence, novelty or merit of the invention, or the truth or accuracy of the description."
I have seen some sources who seemed to believe that the S.G.D.G mark meant that it wasn't protected, but as far as I can tell that is incorrect. I almost wonder if Russel made that mistake, but then that would also lead us back to wondering why we'd have these several examples of razors all presumably from the French market, marked as though they were made in the British plant, stamped with the American patent date.
I think I need a drink...
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- #70
I'm thinking download the page into a editor, make changes, upload page. I have an old copy of Dreamweaver, I just need to locate the discs and install it on my new computer. However, this is the busiest time of year for our business so the only time I get at the moment is between customers and late at night when when SWMBO has retired.
It's not HTML that you'd be editing there. The markup in edit mode is basically the same as you'd been using here in your posts. Clicking the "Edit" tab up at the top of the page will put you into editing mode where you can edit the entire page, or you can click the smaller "Edit" link on the far right in the same line as the section header to just edit that section.
The biggest thing I would say is that you should be sure that you always preview your changes before saving them. It'll save you a lot of heartache having to roll back and re-apply changes.
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- #72
Thank you. I looked for an "Edit" tab both before and after your post. No trace. Near the top of the page is "article, discussion, watch" and further down on the right is "[hide]-[top]". So I opened the Wiki page in Internet Explorer instead of Google Chrome and I'm now seeing "article, discussion, edit, history, watch" and "[hide]-[top]-[edit]". I'm still not seeing the smaller "Edit" link on the far right in the same line as the section header to just edit that section.
Wiki editing is not available until you have 45 days and 50 posts. You just recently passed the 50 post threshold for wiki editing. But the database may take a little while to catch up. Give it a few hours. If you still cannot edit, PM me or anyone else on the wiki team.
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- #74
I've started keeping track of the razors with the US patent on the inner cylinder and am thinking it would be good to add them to the Wiki in a separate category. I would include the one in Italy that was sold early in the hope that it was a B&B member who bought it and may be able to provide the missing details.
However, if the two US made ABC razors are then moved over to this new category we are left with only G 5031, about which I also hold suspicions in that it doesn't have the leading zeros which are characteristic of the razors in the other series.
I think I need a drink too.....a wee drop of the Irish perhaps.
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Wait, put that drink down, i think you may have a viable theory there.............Maybe the nullification of the patents is an indicator. The patent was granted to GilletteI can't imaging that tooling up to stamp these parts in this radically different way would have been a trivial matter, and I certainly can't see any reason why the Boston plant would have any reason to have stamped razors bound (seemingly exclusively) for the French market any differently than they were stamping their own standard razors -- aside from the possibly legally required "G-inside-D" mark.
I wonder if we're possibly seeing some kind of fallout in the shadow of the French revocation of Gillette's patent rights, if, in fact, Russel is correct on that point. One thing I notice on the later ABC cases is that the entry for France reads "Bts. S. G. du C" where on the older ones it gives the "July 3, 03" date.
I haven't had any luck in tracking down what that "S. G. du C" would have meant -- what you'd expect would be "S. G. D. G." for "sans garantie du gouvernement." My understanding is that this marking indicated that a patent was registered with the French government, but that the government disclaimed any liability for its safe or proper working as French patents were issued "without screening, at the risk of applicants, and without warranty as to the existence, novelty or merit of the invention, or the truth or accuracy of the description."
I have seen some sources who seemed to believe that the S.G.D.G mark meant that it wasn't protected, but as far as I can tell that is incorrect. I almost wonder if Russel made that mistake, but then that would also lead us back to wondering why we'd have these several examples of razors all presumably from the French market, marked as though they were made in the British plant, stamped with the American patent date.
I think I need a drink...
[ or extended beyond the deadline] only for a year or so before it was nullified by French courts. This could have started a big fallout.
Wait, will everybody stop drinking!! What is this a rerun of Cheers?
Now that you have more than 45 posts you can go in the Wiki and edit your suggestions.
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- #78
Rectangle or square cartouche - seems like government compliance requirements.
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- #79
OK....its done....Now where's that Bushmills
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- #80
View attachment 434073
Has any body else noticed how closed this serial number prefix is to King Camp Gillette's initials?
Has any body else noticed how closed this serial number prefix is to King Camp Gillette's initials?
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