Coffee bean density

[gpjoe]

Ok, probably overthinking this, but now I'm curious.

I weighed two different whole-bean coffes using the same scoop. One level scoop of bean "A" was just over 15g and coffee "B" came in at near 20g for the same level scoop, indicating that B was denser (or smaller beans?...or wetter beans?).

I'm just trying to simplify my process by using volume to measure my beans rather than weighing each time, but I'm not sure that is going to be accurate.

So, why the difference in weight for the same volume of coffee?...and if using weight as a measure (and therefore using a 25% greater volume of bean "A" by weight), how does all of this affect to actual brew?

I told you I was overthinking this.

In much simpler terms:

Is weight the critical measure, regardless of volume?

 

[Multum in parvo]

How old were both samples? I assume that older beans from an open container take up moisture from the ambient air.

Also Robusta beans are generally smaller than Arabica beans so the ratio of both samples should be the same to avoid skewed results.

You could count the samples and weigh them again

 

[gpjoe]

How old were both samples? I assume that older beans from an open container take up moisture from the ambient air.

Also Robusta beans are generally smaller than Arabica beans so the ratio of both samples should be the same to avoid skewed results.

You could count the samples and weigh them again

Both purchased on the same day, at the grocery, so age unknown.

One is Dunkin Donuts, the other Stumptown Roasters, a "boutique" grocery store brand (makes a pretty good cup).

The Dunkin was about 25% lighter by weight.

 

[Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker]

Ok, probably overthinking this, but now I'm curious.

I weighed two different whole-bean coffes using the same scoop. One level scoop of bean "A" was just over 15g and coffee "B" came in at near 20g for the same level scoop, indicating that B was denser (or smaller beans?...or wetter beans?).

I'm just trying to simplify my process by using volume to measure my beans rather than weighing each time, but I'm not sure that is going to be accurate.

So, why the difference in weight for the same volume of coffee?...and if using weight as a measure (and therefore using a 25% greater volume of bean "A" by weight), how does all of this affect to actual brew?

I told you I was overthinking this.

In much simpler terms:

Is weight the critical measure, regardless of volume?

You are correct Joe, and I can speak from personal experience!

Coffee density most certainly is a thing. Over the course of a year, I have used many different coffee's, and one thing I have noticed with all of them, is that each one has a different density to it, in the form of volume. I can literally grind the exact same amount of grams of coffee of one type, then do the same with another type, and one will produce less grounds in the filter basket.

Perfect example, I have been trying a new coffee out from Klatch most recently, I've been having a little more trouble dialing that in, even for an auto drip machine, because the density of that coffee is so different, that it produces the least amount of coffee, in my filter basket, causing a weak brew, regardless of temperature choice.

So instead of grinding 48 grams of coffee for 6-cups, I am going to grind 50-grams of coffee for 6-cups, and I will see if the coffee is stronger and more flavorable. I will have a report on that later today. On the opposite side, my LavAzza Italiano Espresso, that produces the highest amount of grounds out of all of the coffee I have tried. Everytime I do a big brew of 60-grams of coffee going in, for 8-cups of liquid out, the coffee grounds nearly fill up the entire basket!

So yes, every coffee is different my friend, you are learning much grasshopper. Just remember, when your finished with your brewer, when its time to clean it, remember to wax on, and wax off.

 

[gpjoe]

You are correct Joe, and I can speak from personal experience!

Coffee density most certainly is a thing. Over the course of a year, I have used many different coffee's, and one thing I have noticed with all of them, is that each one has a different density to it, in the form of volume. I can literally grind the exact same amount of grams of coffee of one type, then do the same with another type, and one will produce less grounds in the filter basket.

Perfect example, I have been trying a new coffee out from Klatch most recently, I've been having a little more trouble dialing that in, even for an auto drip machine, because the density of that coffee is so different, that it produces the least amount of coffee, in my filter basket, causing a weak brew, regardless of temperature choice.

So instead of grinding 48 grams of coffee for 6-cups, I am going to grind 50-grams of coffee for 6-cups, and I will see if the coffee is stronger and more flavorable. I will have a report on that later today. On the opposite side, my LavAzza Italiano Espresso, that produces the highest amount of grounds out of all of the coffee I have tried. Everytime I do a big brew of 60-grams of coffee going in, for 8-cups of liquid out, the coffee grounds nearly fill up the entire basket!

So yes, every coffee is different my friend, you are learning much grasshopper. Just remember, when your finished with your brewer, when its time to clean it, remember to wax on, and wax off.

Thanks.

But still trying to wrap my over-analytical mind around the process of using weight as a measure of accuracy.

I guess the answer is:

Once you've found a gram weight and grind that works, you can repeat it, even though it may be different for each bean/brand.

But you could do the same by volume...no?

 

[Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker]

Thanks.

But still trying to wrap my over-analytical mind around the process of using weight as a measure of accuracy.

I guess the answer is:

Once you've found a gram weight and grind that works, you can repeat it, even though it may be different for each bean/brand.

But you could do the same by volume...no?

In my experience, 2-things matter the most when making coffee.

( 1 ) Consistent grind size

( 2 ) Measure the coffee grams going in

For most the years of my life, I was doing it just as you said, winging it by using big 1-cup measuring cup scoops, to scoop up 4 of those cups, to make a full 12-cup pot of coffee. Truth be told, that did seem to work, but not with all coffee's! Once you have a particular coffee dialed in, you can simply use a scoop, so as long as you are scooping the exact amount everytime.

But as soon as you change to a different coffee, that has a different density, it can throw your ratio's way off. I've learned that measuring my coffee by weight, is usually the best solution, to keeping up with consistency. Having said that, my Klatch coffee forced me to add a few extra grams of coffee beyond the recommended dose, due to its density being far off from other coffee's.

Again, if you drink nothing but one brand of coffee, and only one type of coffee under that brand, once you get the coffee grams dialed in, you could simply use an appropriate sized measuring scoop, as you can insure you get it right every time that way, if you don't want to keep measuring out your coffee by weight.

But IMHO, you should continue scaling out your coffee by weight, but you can do it however you want, but thats just how I like to do it, and how all coffee connoisseurs aficionado's do it as well.

I am going to summon my coffee sensai, @APBinNCA who is more likely to get the point across better then I, since he has greater coffee knowledge then I do. And I learn everything I know from him, yes, I am his grasshopper, learning the error of my ways, so I may improve myself in more civilized ways, so that I may make delicious coffee, and always remember to wax on, and wax off.

 

[APBinNCA]

But still trying to wrap my over-analytical mind around the process of using weight as a measure of accuracy.

I have been summoned!

Let’s see if I can make this more complicated. What we are aiming to do with coffee beans is extract the good stuff. In order to control the extraction, we vary the grind size. The reason is because it varies the surface area which directly controls the rate of extraction. Theoretically, you could use volumetric measurement if you are measuring ground coffee, but my experience has been that even then certain coffees take up more volume. I am winging this a bit because I don’t have access to my books right now, but I think darker roasts require coarser grinds(greater surface area) because their lower density makes them more easily dissolved. This should hold for coffee origin as well, grind finer for high elevation origins due to their higher density because the solids are less easily dissolved. I am not sure if your answer is in there, but I can try clarify anything that isn’t clear.

 

[gpjoe]

Let’s see if I can make this more complicated.

Nah, not possible.

Again, if you drink nothing but one brand of coffee, and only one type of coffee under that brand, once you get the coffee grams dialed in, you could simply use an appropriate sized measuring scoop, as you can insure you get it right every time that way, if you don't want to keep measuring out your coffee by weight.

That's what I figured.

It seems that the perfect cup is individual, and the scale makes it easier to dial it in by removing a variable with a particular bean...unless that bean/brand varies in weight among different batches...yikes.

Looks like I'm either going to have to drink one coffee, or keep a log to record weight, grind, and amount and temp of water.

 

[steveclarkus]

Odd this should come up as I recently received three one pound bags of coffee from an independent roaster in NJ. I thought it was a good deal. Dark roasted drip grind same as my usual 12 oz coffee from Charleston Roasters. I used the same five tablespoons of the NJ stuff for the usual five cups of water and it lacked the strength and body of the Charleston. In the end, I had to use an extra tablespoon to bring it up to my usual. The NJ coffee was Brazilian while the Charleston was Sumatra so there was a difference there but the NJ turned out not to be such a great deal.

 

[AndyPanda]

When I roast coffee I can weigh the green beans before roasting and then weigh again after roasting and you generally lose between 14-18% of the weight due to roasting off the moisture and anything else that gets roasted off. (this can vary by how the green coffee was processed and how much moisture it contains).

Darker roasts lose more and lighter roasts lose less. I typically roast to about a Full City - Medium and lose about 15% of the weight (i.e. 1000 grams of green coffee yields 850 grams of roast coffee).

 

[Bobovata]

Is weight the critical measure, regardless of volume?

Yes. But you only have to weigh once for each batch of beans. Once you know what your chosen weight equals in volume then you can measure by volume for the rest of that batch.

That is how I do it. See where 21 grams comes to in my grinder, and then just fill to that point for the rest of the batch.

Density is also one of the variables roasters use to determine roast profile.

 

[gpjoe]

Yes. But you only have to weigh once for each batch of beans. Once you know what your chosen weight equals in volume then you can measure by volume for the rest of that batch.

That is how I do it. See where 21 grams comes to in my grinder, and then just fill to that point for the rest of the batch.

Density is also one of the variables roasters use to determine roast profile.

Thanks. My logical self is very much OK with this.

 

[bonjing]

The rabbit hole of coffee:

 

[Quaznoid]

Ok, probably overthinking this, but now I'm curious.

I weighed two different whole-bean coffes using the same scoop. One level scoop of bean "A" was just over 15g and coffee "B" came in at near 20g for the same level scoop, indicating that B was denser (or smaller beans?...or wetter beans?).

I'm just trying to simplify my process by using volume to measure my beans rather than weighing each time, but I'm not sure that is going to be accurate.

So, why the difference in weight for the same volume of coffee?...and if using weight as a measure (and therefore using a 25% greater volume of bean "A" by weight), how does all of this affect to actual brew?

I told you I was overthinking this.

In much simpler terms:

Is weight the critical measure, regardless of volume?

This is what I’m talking about, Joe. I can take you with me.

 

[gpjoe]

This is what I’m talking about, Joe. I can take you with me.

Boy, you are thorough.

I like easy, and no longer weigh coffee beans after quickly determining that this level of attention is unnecessary for me to get the cup I want. I'm now more of a volume (scoop) guy.

As with most things, I analyze, filter, and adapt.

 

[Quaznoid]

So there’s still time. But hurry, I have to leave very soon.

 

[DesertIguana]

Friend had Coffee Shop, Gift Shop, and Event Venue, His Coffee was fabulous, it was the Coffee Beans, the Equipment to brew coffee, and water tempter. Buddy was OCD about consistence, his coffee rocked.

But he also would say you can get very good coffee end product if you have right grind, right machine, and water temperature.

Starbucks Black Coffee is always bitter, it is over roasted, so it alway taste burn to me. I drink Coffee one way STRAIGHT BLACK.

Worst Black Coffee can be made drinkable with addatives like Sugar, sweeteners, Milk, Cream, for flavor. This is what Starbucks does well, sell Coffee Drinks.

JMHO

 

[gpjoe]

So there’s still time. But hurry, I have to leave very soon.

I'm already with you, 99.9% of the time...and I'm 100% sure that if I start floating on the fringe of reality, you won't hesitate to ground me.

 

[Old Hippie]

Joe, if you want some additional complications I'll give you one free.

Remember that green beans "pop" and expand a bit in the roast, for exactly the reason corn pops. Some varietals will expand more than others -- I always figure on about 75 per cent expansion with Sumatra, for instance. That'll mess up your volumetric measurement after the roast. Depth of roast affects that as well, as does fineness of grind.

Grind also affects extract percentage. Within the same varietal from the same burlap bag I would expect that lighter roasts don't expand the beans as much, hence a finer grind would create more surface area for more efficient extraction. Darker roasts can really open up the beans, but create other Maillard components and taste notes that are not pleasant (to many of us) in excessive concentration, hence a slightly coarser roast can slow down the extraction and help avoid overly harsh flavours.

Super dark roasts and very fine grinds work in espresso machines because exposure time is low. Try that with steep-and-strain method and it'll curl your nose hairs, make your eyes spin in different directions and cause you to babble unpredictably.

O.H.

 

[Quaznoid]

I'm already with you, 99.9% of the time...and I'm 100% sure that if I start floating on the fringe of reality, you won't hesitate to ground me.

Sorry Joe, I had to go, but I’ll try to come back for you. In the meantime, run toward the light!