How precise does it have to be for drip or pour over?

[Tirvine]

For ages I have filled the bean hopper, set the grind in the middle and left it, set the timer at 7 (straight up), and had a terrific pot of coffee every day. The little Capresso grinder must now be put out of its misery. I will go with Baratza. I love my Sette and I love things that can be repaired rather than pitched. To get a better grinder, it looks as if my options are an Encore (weigh the beans, pour them in, and grind them, leaving finger on button until all are gone) or a Virtuoso (dial in timing, set it, fill the hopper, and go). I really am not enamored of measuring things, keeping my finger on the grindet until it is gond (before 6 am). Since I always use the same drip grind in my Bonavita, the same coffee, and same amount of water, it SEEMS timing ought to be enough. Is weighing really needed for drip or pourover? Thoughts? $100 price difference in the grinders. Lest ye worry I am far more picky and precise with espresso. However, absent a plumbed in machine I can leave on, I do not see myself waking up to a doppio or ristretto, even a cafe con latte. If it makes a difference, I like very dark roasts for the morning pot.

 

[Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker]

For ages I have filled the bean hopper, set the grind in the middle and left it, set the timer at 7 (straight up), and had a terrific pot of coffee every day. The little Capresso grinder must now be put out of its misery. I will go with Baratza. I love my Sette and I love things that can be repaired rather than pitched. To get a better grinder, it looks as if my options are an Encore (weigh the beans, pour them in, and grind them, leaving finger on button until all are gone) or a Virtuoso (dial in timing, set it, fill the hopper, and go). I really am not enamored of measuring things, keeping my finger on the grindet until it is gond (before 6 am). Since I always use the same drip grind in my Bonavita, the same coffee, and same amount of water, it SEEMS timing ought to be enough. Is weighing really needed for drip or pourover? Thoughts? $100 price difference in the grinders. Lest ye worry I am far more picky and precise with espresso. However, absent a plumbed in machine I can leave on, I do not see myself waking up to a doppio or ristretto, even a cafe con latte. If it makes a difference, I like very dark roasts for the morning pot.

I didn't know that I would be meeting an ancient grey sweatophile today. Tirvine, you are undoubtedly becoming more refined, in the arts of coffee.

As you can see, I own a Behmore Brazen Plus 3.0 automatic pulse based drip brewer. This is a lovely unit that allows me to set my altitude boiling point, as well as allow me to control my brewing temperature, and my bloom times. This helps me to get the most out of my brew, but without a good grinder, I will never achieve perfection.

I have been primarily a hand grinder operator for many months now. But recently I decided to go back to electric, but I wanted something that was at least as good as my high end hand grinder. So I personally, chose the Baratza Virtuoso+ grinder, for which I have posted a review here...

Baratza Virtuoso+ Coffee Grinder With 40mm M2 Etzinger Burrs ( An SWCT Review )

Baratza Virtuoso+ Coffee Grinder When @gpjoe went to pick up his Baratza Encore grinder package, he made a note about how heavy it was. When I went to pick up my Baratza Virtuoso+ grinder package, I felt the same way. While weight isn't always an indicator of quality, but in this case, it...

www.badgerandblade.com

Here's what I learned about making delicious coffee. Grind uniformity is key, a quality conical burr grinder, can get you set on the right foot, as the Baratza Virtuoso+ has for me. Another thing I have learned, is that coffee dose consistency is also important. I weigh out my beans to be thrown into the grinder each and every time. This is because I am not making coffee by volume, I am making coffee my weight dose. By using this process, I maintain proper consistency across the board.

Doing it the way that I do, I make delicious coffee every time. And while I personally prefer to make my grinds and then make a brew on the spot, I realize that not everybody has the time to do that. For some folks, they are so busy, they don't always have the time to do this, and would rather the coffee be ready for them when they wake up. This is when my brewers additional functionality comes into play. My brewer can be programmed for an automatic start time.

This means, if grinds freshness is a little less of an issue for you, you can make your grinds before you go to bed, leave them in the filter basket, fill the water reservoir to the required amount you need, then program your automatic start time. Then by the time you wake up, the brewer will have already made your coffee for you. And there is another thing that is nice................

Unlike many cheaper drip brewers that do offer an programmed automatic start up time, they typically use glass carafe's that have heat plates on the bottom. I do not like those, as they tend to burn/cook the coffee further, until its so bitter, only a ryno can drink it. But the Behmore uses an insulated thermal carafe, so no heat plate is used, this keeps your coffee fresher, hotter, and maintains its deliciousness.

Weighing out your beans is really not that hard, I've been doing it for a year now, its an easy thing to do, to maintain consistency across the board. And as far as electric grinders go, you could easily save 100 dollars like you said, and go with the Encore. There is a switch on the side that allows you to simply turn it on, without having to hold down the center button.

But I decided that paying the extra 100 dollars for the Virtuoso+ was worth it. Because I get a better stronger motor, I get a better M2 Etzinger burr set, it grinds faster then an Encore grinder, and build quality is better. For me, this was the way. Of course, I support whatever choice that you choose, but this is what works for me, and I hope that it will work for you as well.

BTW, you can use any cheap scale that you can buy on Amazon, you don't need to pay a lot of money for a scale that just measures your beans in grams. But, if you decide to buy a Baratza Virtuoso+ grinder, then you'd be honoring it by getting a Timemore Black Mirror Nano scale, just saying lol. This is my coffee bar as it currently is. I hope that my post has been helpful to you. If you have any further questions, I will be all to happy to answer them, or find the answer for you if I don't know it.

 

[JeffJ]

My encore has an on off switch. I measure, turn it on and wet the filter while it is grinding. Or fill the water reservoir. I thought I read that the new one with the burrs that can handle espresso has both a pulse button and a switch but I could be mistaken.

Weighing the beans made a dramatic improvement in the quality and consistency of my coffee.

 

[Lightcs1776]

I have the Virtuoso and considered the Encore. I also use a Baratza drip coffee maker. I have no regrets for spending the extra on the Virtuoso, but kids are grown so there is a bit more funds to spend on the non-essentials. I love how it grinds quickly and leaves very little in the bin. It is definitely a high quality grinder for anything but espresso or finer grinds. I did see some people state the Virtuoso was good for espresso, but I disagree.

 

[rudygu]

My encore has an on off switch. I measure, turn it on and wet the filter while it is grinding. Or fill the water reservoir. I thought I read that the new one with the burrs that can handle espresso has both a pulse button and a switch but I could be mistaken.

Weighing the beans made a dramatic improvement in the quality and consistency of my coffee.

I have 3 Baratza Encore grinders. Two are the original model and the third is the Encore ESP that will grind for espresso in addition to standard brewing methods. All three have an on/off switch that will stay on until turned off as well as a pulse button you hold until finished. All three are terrific performers for the money.

 

[Tirvine]

Many thanks for your responses thus far. Although it is ancient, I very much like my coffee maker, a Bonavita with an insulated carafe. I am leaning towards the Virtuoso, but the $100 differences make it worth my time to learn more.

 

[Omega48]

I did not really enjoyed pour over until I invested a little in a (good) grinder with flat burs specifically designed for pour over.

 

[Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker]

Many thanks for your responses thus far. Although it is ancient, I very much like my coffee maker, a Bonavita with an insulated carafe. I am leaning towards the Virtuoso, but the $100 differences make it worth my time to learn more.

Your so very welcome Tirvine! We are all happy to help here, this is what we do, help our fellow brother's, in this great community, on B&B! I also agree, when your considering spending 250 dollars minus tax, it is a good idea, to do your research. Pull from whatever you need, internet articles, YouTube, or my review.

I did not really enjoyed pour over until I invested a little in a (good) grinder with flat burs specifically designed for pour over.

Here's what I know. Conical grinders provide you a more complex, dynamic, full bodied flavor experience. Where as flatburr grinders, provide you a more cleaner cup, a little less dynamic, and with higher levels of acidity. Based on ones flavor preference, pretty much dictates grinder choice, well that, and of course cost. Flatburr grinders test to cost 3 times as much as conical.

 

[Omega48]

That is why I used the word 'invest'. However there are excellent grinders for pour over under $400. Of course you can spend more.

 

[Lightcs1776]

I have 3 Baratza Encore grinders. Two are the original model and the third is the Encore ESP that will grind for espresso in addition to standard brewing methods. All three have an on/off switch that will stay on until turned off as well as a pulse button you hold until finished. All three are terrific performers for the money.

Ah, that's the coffee maker I have, not Baratza. I knew it started with a B but didn't go look.

 

[APBinNCA]

Is weighing really needed for drip or pourover?

Well yes and no. The way the timer on the Virtuoso is designed to work is that you figure out how many seconds of grinding will give you the correct dose, this is how a commercial espresso machine works too. You can do this once with a scale and then just use the timer in the morning. The only catch is that the hopper needs to have some amount of beans in it to get a consistent flow, not one or two doses. I also have a Vario W and I really don't like it because it's not meant for single dose and I have to keep my beans in the hopper, but if I was drinking the same coffee daily it would be awesome!

I scanned the comments to see if somebody mentioned this, they probably did and I missed it.

Maybe I should go into some detail how to calibrate the timer to your dose in case it isn't immediately obvious without having the actual grinder in hand on counter:

-Fill hopper with three serving of coffee(at least 90g, but I am making this up without checking)
-Put the grounds catch on a scale and zero it, insert back into the machine(don't forget this step)
-Turn the dial to an even number of at least 10(that might actually be enough)
-Place the grounds catch back on the scale and see how much weight it has added
-If it gives you 27g and you need 40, do some math(try 15 seconds next time)
-Do one more practice with the scale and the calculated time and make sure it's close(add or subtract a second)

You can use ounces, the above example is close to 1oz. The problem is lack of precision, off a few grams might not matter, but off a quarter ounce probably will(7g). The other option is to guess based on coffee volume, then you can simply add seconds until it looks right and test it out. The problem with this is that it's an unfamiliar grinder and you probably don't have the grind setting exactly right to use flow rate to determine whether you need more coffee, you need to have only the one variable. So you could measure a dose of coffee the night before, grind it and see if the setting is correct and adjust that first. Then fiddle with using the method above or volumetric guessing. I used to chase my tail repeatedly when I got into pour over, but I did it with a scale so I had no excuse. I would taste the coffee and randomly(wrongly too) guess that it needed more coffee instead of a finer grind because it was flowing too fast. If I had a developed taste then, and some sense, I would have known to always grind finer first. Keep going until it taste bitter and you have found your lower limit, if you don't it will be stuck in the sour zone and adding more coffee won't fix the problem! Actually it will, but... hey is that my tail again?

 

[Tirvine]

Your so very welcome Tirvine! We are all happy to help here, this is what we do, help our fellow brother's, in this great community, on B&B! I also agree, when your considering spending 250 dollars minus tax, it is a good idea, to do your research. Pull from whatever you need, internet articles, YouTube, or my review.



Here's what I know. Conical grinders provide you a more complex, dynamic, full bodied flavor experience. Where as flatburr grinders, provide you a more cleaner cup, a little less dynamic, and with higher levels of acidity. Based on ones flavor preference, pretty much dictates grinder choice, well that, and of course cost. Flatburr grinders test to cost 3 times as much as conical.

Agreed on the difference between flat and conical but did not know it also affected acidity. I like very dark roasts for their lower acid.

Well yes and no. The way the timer on the Virtuoso is designed to work is that you figure out how many seconds of grinding will give you the correct dose, this is how a commercial espresso machine works too. You can do this once with a scale and then just use the timer in the morning. The only catch is that the hopper needs to have some amount of beans in it to get a consistent flow, not one or two doses. I also have a Vario W and I really don't like it because it's not meant for single dose and I have to keep my beans in the hopper, but if I was drinking the same coffee daily it would be awesome!

I scanned the comments to see if somebody mentioned this, they probably did and I missed it.

Maybe I should go into some detail how to calibrate the timer to your dose in case it isn't immediately obvious without having the actual grinder in hand on counter:

-Fill hopper with three serving of coffee(at least 90g, but I am making this up without checking)
-Put the grounds catch on a scale and zero it, insert back into the machine(don't forget this step)
-Turn the dial to an even number of at least 10(that might actually be enough)
-Place the grounds catch back on the scale and see how much weight it has added
-If it gives you 27g and you need 40, do some math(try 15 seconds next time)
-Do one more practice with the scale and the calculated time and make sure it's close(add or subtract a second)

You can use ounces, the above example is close to 1oz. The problem is lack of precision, off a few grams might not matter, but off a quarter ounce probably will(7g). The other option is to guess based on coffee volume, then you can simply add seconds until it looks right and test it out. The problem with this is that it's an unfamiliar grinder and you probably don't have the grind setting exactly right to use flow rate to determine whether you need more coffee, you need to have only the one variable. So you could measure a dose of coffee the night before, grind it and see if the setting is correct and adjust that first. Then fiddle with using the method above or volumetric guessing. I used to chase my tail repeatedly when I got into pour over, but I did it with a scale so I had no excuse. I would taste the coffee and randomly(wrongly too) guess that it needed more coffee instead of a finer grind because it was flowing too fast. If I had a developed taste then, and some sense, I would have known to always grind finer first. Keep going until it taste bitter and you have found your lower limit, if you don't it will be stuck in the sour zone and adding more coffee won't fix the problem! Actually it will, but... hey is that my tail again?

As I had concluded. My Sette has a digital timer. 8.65 seconds on my usual beans is just right to fill the portafilter of the Elektra lever machine. Always remember to reset after losing power!

 

[Tirvine]

Ah, that's the coffee maker I have, not Baratza. I knew it started with a B but didn't go look.

The very plain looking Bonavita makes a spectacular drip coffee and has a superb carafe, all for about half the price of the much cooler looking Technivorm.

 

[Lightcs1776]

Well yes and no. The way the timer on the Virtuoso is designed to work is that you figure out how many seconds of grinding will give you the correct dose, this is how a commercial espresso machine works too. You can do this once with a scale and then just use the timer in the morning. The only catch is that the hopper needs to have some amount of beans in it to get a consistent flow, not one or two doses. I also have a Vario W and I really don't like it because it's not meant for single dose and I have to keep my beans in the hopper, but if I was drinking the same coffee daily it would be awesome!

I scanned the comments to see if somebody mentioned this, they probably did and I missed it.

Maybe I should go into some detail how to calibrate the timer to your dose in case it isn't immediately obvious without having the actual grinder in hand on counter:

-Fill hopper with three serving of coffee(at least 90g, but I am making this up without checking)
-Put the grounds catch on a scale and zero it, insert back into the machine(don't forget this step)
-Turn the dial to an even number of at least 10(that might actually be enough)
-Place the grounds catch back on the scale and see how much weight it has added
-If it gives you 27g and you need 40, do some math(try 15 seconds next time)
-Do one more practice with the scale and the calculated time and make sure it's close(add or subtract a second)

You can use ounces, the above example is close to 1oz. The problem is lack of precision, off a few grams might not matter, but off a quarter ounce probably will(7g). The other option is to guess based on coffee volume, then you can simply add seconds until it looks right and test it out. The problem with this is that it's an unfamiliar grinder and you probably don't have the grind setting exactly right to use flow rate to determine whether you need more coffee, you need to have only the one variable. So you could measure a dose of coffee the night before, grind it and see if the setting is correct and adjust that first. Then fiddle with using the method above or volumetric guessing. I used to chase my tail repeatedly when I got into pour over, but I did it with a scale so I had no excuse. I would taste the coffee and randomly(wrongly too) guess that it needed more coffee instead of a finer grind because it was flowing too fast. If I had a developed taste then, and some sense, I would have known to always grind finer first. Keep going until it taste bitter and you have found your lower limit, if you don't it will be stuck in the sour zone and adding more coffee won't fix the problem! Actually it will, but... hey is that my tail again?

And excellent explanation. I set my Virtuoso for 18 seconds for most of my roasts. I like to get around 40 grams of grounds for drip.

 

[gpjoe]

For ages I have filled the bean hopper, set the grind in the middle and left it, set the timer at 7 (straight up), and had a terrific pot of coffee every day. The little Capresso grinder must now be put out of its misery. I will go with Baratza. I love my Sette and I love things that can be repaired rather than pitched. To get a better grinder, it looks as if my options are an Encore (weigh the beans, pour them in, and grind them, leaving finger on button until all are gone) or a Virtuoso (dial in timing, set it, fill the hopper, and go). I really am not enamored of measuring things, keeping my finger on the grindet until it is gond (before 6 am). Since I always use the same drip grind in my Bonavita, the same coffee, and same amount of water, it SEEMS timing ought to be enough. Is weighing really needed for drip or pourover? Thoughts? $100 price difference in the grinders. Lest ye worry I am far more picky and precise with espresso. However, absent a plumbed in machine I can leave on, I do not see myself waking up to a doppio or ristretto, even a cafe con latte. If it makes a difference, I like very dark roasts for the morning pot.

I just bought a Baratza Encore.

When it arrived, I put a (20g?) measure of beans in the hopper, turned it on and ran it until the last bean was gone, while timing it, and it took approximately 11 seconds.

Now, I fill the hopper, run it for approximately 11 seconds (one mississipi...two mississipi...three...you get it) and that's my imprecise and lazy (yet somehow effective) measure for one cup in my Aeropress.

Note that I am not a real fanatic, but also I have never gotten a bad cup using my hack.

 

[Rich S]

Is weighing really needed for drip or pour over? Thoughts?

Hi. I'm new to B&B, but I'm an old hand at roasting and making coffee.

Most of the earlier comments were about grinding smaller amounts of coffee beans with some hope of precision. Instead, I'd like to focus on scales. A decent kitchen scale does a good job if you scale up to brew a larger pot of coffee or scale down for a smaller amount. The old way most of us measured out water or coffee was to use those guide lines on a typical drip maker or a large measuring cup, and a measuring scoop for the coffee. Scaling the amount of coffee you brew either up or down and getting to taste good wasn't easy without some trial & error.

Now, I weigh out both coffee beans before grinding and the amount of water I use. I measure water in liters: 1 liter = 1,000 mililiters (mL) = 1,000 grams. You read that right, 1 mL of water weighs 1 gram. Scaling up or down is predicable and easy. I worked most of my career in a biochemistry lab, and I'm comfortable with metric grams, liters & mL. In fact, I'm really uncomfortable with those non-metric units like pounds, ounces, pints and liquid ounces because their non-metric fractions are too complicated to do any scale up or scale down in my head.

The food scale I use is an OXO 5 lb. Food Scale. I've had it for years. Its sturdy & reliable. Another coffee roasting fan once criticized me because my food scale only read out in whole grams. He bragged about his kitchen scale that read out in tenths of a gram, claiming that it must be more accurate. I had plenty of answers, but he believed none of them. That's par for the course with most DIY fans, aficionados, or snobs. So, I shrugged it off.

Kitchen scales are cheap. They cost well under $50. You're lucky if they come with any info about accuracy or precision. The OXO food scale I have claims ±1% accuracy, and they actually spelled out a range of weights that deliver that accuracy (I'd have to find the owner's manual to remember that range). If I weigh out 40 grams of coffee beans, that becomes 40 ± 0.4 grams. That's plenty good for brewing coffee. (One gram is typically about 5 or 6 coffee beans.)

Then, I looked on Amazon to see what kitchen scales advertise greater accuracy. I quickly found two examples. I don't want to single them out, there were plenty of others. One is the KitchenTour Digital Kitchen Scale. And the other is the Etekcity 0.1g Food Kitchen Scale. Both claim ± 0.1 gram accuracy and cost less than the OXO scale. I include the links for you to read because I just don't believe their claims.

Why not? After many years in the lab, I knew that high precision scales do exist, but they cost a lot more. Here are two examples (also on Amazon). Mettler Toledo JL602-GE Scale which claims ± 0.01 gram precision, and sells for $529. And the Fristaden Lab Scale - 10kg × 0.1g Precision Balance, which claims ± 0.1 gram precision and is less expensive at $124. I included the links because each of these show more info about their precision, which justify their greater cost.

Bottom line, you simply cannot buy an inexpensive kitchen scale with greater precision or accuracy than ± 1 gram or 1%. For most kitchen jobs, including making coffee, you simply don't need it.

Sorry for the long post, but I do get bothered by such false claims.

 

[Tirvine]

Hi. I'm new to B&B, but I'm an old hand at roasting and making coffee.

Most of the earlier comments were about grinding smaller amounts of coffee beans with some hope of precision. Instead, I'd like to focus on scales. A decent kitchen scale does a good job if you scale up to brew a larger pot of coffee or scale down for a smaller amount. The old way most of us measured out water or coffee was to use those guide lines on a typical drip maker or a large measuring cup, and a measuring scoop for the coffee. Scaling the amount of coffee you brew either up or down and getting to taste good wasn't easy without some trial & error.

Now, I weigh out both coffee beans before grinding and the amount of water I use. I measure water in liters: 1 liter = 1,000 mililiters (mL) = 1,000 grams. You read that right, 1 mL of water weighs 1 gram. Scaling up or down is predicable and easy. I worked most of my career in a biochemistry lab, and I'm comfortable with metric grams, liters & mL. In fact, I'm really uncomfortable with those non-metric units like pounds, ounces, pints and liquid ounces because their non-metric fractions are too complicated to do any scale up or scale down in my head.

The food scale I use is an OXO 5 lb. Food Scale. I've had it for years. Its sturdy & reliable. Another coffee roasting fan once criticized me because my food scale only read out in whole grams. He bragged about his kitchen scale that read out in tenths of a gram, claiming that it must be more accurate. I had plenty of answers, but he believed none of them. That's par for the course with most DIY fans, aficionados, or snobs. So, I shrugged it off.

Kitchen scales are cheap. They cost well under $50. You're lucky if they come with any info about accuracy or precision. The OXO food scale I have claims ±1% accuracy, and they actually spelled out a range of weights that deliver that accuracy (I'd have to find the owner's manual to remember that range). If I weigh out 40 grams of coffee beans, that becomes 40 ± 0.4 grams. That's plenty good for brewing coffee. (One gram is typically about 5 or 6 coffee beans.)

Then, I looked on Amazon to see what kitchen scales advertise greater accuracy. I quickly found two examples. I don't want to single them out, there were plenty of others. One is the KitchenTour Digital Kitchen Scale. And the other is the Etekcity 0.1g Food Kitchen Scale. Both claim ± 0.1 gram accuracy and cost less than the OXO scale. I include the links for you to read because I just don't believe their claims.

Why not? After many years in the lab, I knew that high precision scales do exist, but they cost a lot more. Here are two examples (also on Amazon). Mettler Toledo JL602-GE Scale which claims ± 0.01 gram precision, and sells for $529. And the Fristaden Lab Scale - 10kg × 0.1g Precision Balance, which claims ± 0.1 gram precision and is less expensive at $124. I included the links because each of these show more info about their precision, which justify their greater cost.

Bottom line, you simply cannot buy an inexpensive kitchen scale with greater precision or accuracy than ± 1 gram or 1%. For most kitchen jobs, including making coffee, you simply don't need it.

Sorry for the long post, but I do get bothered by such false claims.

Nice post. Since I always use the same coffee, I get good results using a grinder with a timer. For my espresso grinder I have it down to 1/100 of a second. For drip I just turn the knob to half a minute on the Capresso but am considering a Baratza Virtuoso. Yes, my $29.50 OXO scale is great.

 

[Rich S]

For drip I just turn the knob to half a minute on the Capresso but am considering a Baratza Virtuoso.

I've used a Baratza Virtuoso every day since 2015. It has been virtually bullet proof. You will like the static-resistant grounds catcher. In dry winter air, static does build up, but it gets discharged if I set it down on the counter top for a few seconds before pouring the ground coffee into the brewing cone. The rest of the year, I can pour it without any waiting.

 

[Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker]

While I agree for the most part, in regards to the Baratza Virtuoso+ grinder, being low retention. It is however NOT, a 0-retention grinder, not unless you do a quick spray of RDT that is. I personally didn't like the idea of putting moisture in my grinder, because one has the possibility of causing the burr set to possibly rust in the process.

Instead, I went to Amazon, and I purchased a bellows kit for my grinder, which only cost a measly 13 buckaroo's! You just use the hopper lid for your bellows cover. It helps me to do two things. When I activate pulse mode, everytime I pulse the grinder, I also push on the bellows, to help feed the last few beans down into the burr set.

Then once the last of the beans have been grounded, then I press on the bellow 6-more times, which feeds ground stragglers in the burrset, out through the exit hole, into the grounds collection chamber. The use of the bellows, turns my Baratza Virtuoso+ into a 0-retention grinder. I have only owned my grinder for a couple months, but I agree about it being bullet proof.

I am truly amazed that it has the power to grind not just dark roasts and medium roasts. But its even capable of grinding the most difficult roast of them all, light roasts. I didn't really hear my grinder struggle it all. It just produced more of a torquing sound, as the motor was being put under a stronger load, to pulverize them light roasted beans into next week.

Literally the best electric grinder I have ever bought!

And here is a picture of my whole coffee bar setup!

​

BTW, have you folks heard of the DF-64 Gen 2 single dose grinder? I think what makes it a notable grinder, is that it comes with something called a Plasma Generator. And its the first grinder I have ever heard of, that literally has 0-retention, and you never have to do RDT with it. I've seen it used several times on Hoon's Coffee, and I've seen with my own eyes proof, that it has 0-retention.

Mr. Hoon only produces video's in LIVE format, and thus he does not edit his video's. Which means, what you see is what you get. And I am very impressed with what I am seeing from the new DF-64 Gen 2 grinder. It comes with its own bellows of course, but when I see him push on it a few times, I barely see anymore coffee grounds come out of it. So, it seems a proven technology so far.

It only costs 300 buckaroo's, which puts it at only 50 buckaroo's more then the Baratza Virtuoso+ but again, its a single dose grinder though. So its perfect for doing espresso or pour over. But if you have a drip maker that produces 8-cups or more, the DF64 will not produce enough grinds in a single run, much like a hand grinder doesn't either infact.

When I used to use my hand grinder every day, I had to use it multiple times until I had grounded 156 grams of coffee, to produce enough coffee for me to brew 22-ounces into my Yeti tumbler, as well as to produce 14-cups to go into a thermal storage carafe. So you can understand what my motivation was to get my Baratza Virtuoso+ grinder lol.

 

[manimal]

While I agree for the most part, in regards to the Baratza Virtuoso+ grinder, being low retention. It is however NOT, a 0-retention grinder, not unless you do a quick spray of RDT that is. I personally didn't like the idea of putting moisture in my grinder, because one has the possibility of causing the burr set to possibly rust in the process.

Instead, I went to Amazon, and I purchased a bellows kit for my grinder, which only cost a measly 13 buckaroo's! You just use the hopper lid for your bellows cover. It helps me to do two things. When I activate pulse mode, everytime I pulse the grinder, I also push on the bellows, to help feed the last few beans down into the burr set.

Then once the last of the beans have been grounded, then I press on the bellow 6-more times, which feeds ground stragglers in the burrset, out through the exit hole, into the grounds collection chamber. The use of the bellows, turns my Baratza Virtuoso+ into a 0-retention grinder. I have only owned my grinder for a couple months, but I agree about it being bullet proof.

I am truly amazed that it has the power to grind not just dark roasts and medium roasts. But its even capable of grinding the most difficult roast of them all, light roasts. I didn't really hear my grinder struggle it all. It just produced more of a torquing sound, as the motor was being put under a stronger load, to pulverize them light roasted beans into next week.

Literally the best electric grinder I have ever bought!

And here is a picture of my whole coffee bar setup!

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BTW, have you folks heard of the DF-64 Gen 2 single dose grinder? I think what makes it a notable grinder, is that it comes with something called a Plasma Generator. And its the first grinder I have ever heard of, that literally has 0-retention, and you never have to do RDT with it. I've seen it used several times on Hoon's Coffee, and I've seen with my own eyes proof, that it has 0-retention.

Mr. Hoon only produces video's in LIVE format, and thus he does not edit his video's. Which means, what you see is what you get. And I am very impressed with what I am seeing from the new DF-64 Gen 2 grinder. It comes with its own bellows of course, but when I see him push on it a few times, I barely see anymore coffee grounds come out of it. So, it seems a proven technology so far.

It only costs 300 buckaroo's, which puts it at only 50 buckaroo's more then the Baratza Virtuoso+ but again, its a single dose grinder though. So its perfect for doing espresso or pour over. But if you have a drip maker that produces 8-cups or more, the DF64 will not produce enough grinds in a single run, much like a hand grinder doesn't either infact.

When I used to use my hand grinder every day, I had to use it multiple times until I had grounded 156 grams of coffee, to produce enough coffee for me to brew 22-ounces into my Yeti tumbler, as well as to produce 14-cups to go into a thermal storage carafe. So you can understand what my motivation was to get my Baratza Virtuoso+ grinder lol.

The plasma generator is supposedly similar to the technology used in the Fellow Ode Gen 2 grinder. Fellow basically describes it as similar to the tech that is used in hair dryers. The Ode isn't made for espresso though so wouldn't be suitable for a lot of folks. I've seen kits to add the plasma generator to the older version of the DF83 but I don't know if kits for the older version of the DF64 exist. I don't get much retention at all using the Ode Gen 2 so I I haven't bothered getting bellows for it. I wasn't impressed by the aesthetics of options I saw available for it on places like etsy and ebay when I first looked but I've seen better looking ones recently. I might give one a try one of these days.