Brush Chronicles #11: Vie-Long; El Caballo Español (The Spanish horse)

[Rylos]

Looking for advise before I order!
This Vie-Long 13071 is quit the looker.
Hair mix: 35% mane hair; 65% tail hair
Loft - 57mm.
Knot - 23mm.


I am looking for a face lathering brush. But not too much scritch if possible. What loft would be appropriate for this?
Loft @ 53-54? 50-52?
Thnx

If you don't want too much scritch then the 50/50 hair ratio might be more to your liking. I have the 50/50 and it does have more scritch than any of my badgers, but definitely not uncomfortably so. I do not have the 35/65 ratio so I'm not sure how much difference there is between them.

Good luck. I'm really liking breaking my 13061 in.

 

[mftoms59]

Looking for advise before I order!
This Vie-Long 13071 is quit the looker.
Hair mix: 35% mane hair; 65% tail hair
Loft - 57mm.
Knot - 23mm.

I am looking for a face lathering brush. But not too much scritch if possible. What loft would be appropriate for this?
Loft @ 53-54? 50-52?
Thnx

The Handle is very nice with a good Waterproof finish and the photo doesn't do it justice. The scritch out of the box will be very noticeable, especially with the firmer Natural Brown Horse Hair. The amount of scritch will increase with added pressure, a very light touch or ~5 bowl lathers would be recommended for your first lathers. The Brush will soften noticeably after ~15-20 lathers, the scritch will relax and the tips will soften as well.

I'd recommend a loft about 1 or 2mm shorter than your face lathering Badger Brush, I use a 46-48mm Badger and my Natural Brown Horse is ~44-45mm. After two months of regular use, 45-50 lathers, the scritch of my Brush is virtually in the background unless I apply extra pressure and my tips are nice & soft, I have plenty of Backbone and it easily loads my Tabac Soap.

The Banded (50/50) wouldn't look as nice as the natural in that Handle, I'd use it in the Darker Olive Handle and use the same guideline for loft, leaning toward 2-3mm shorter than your Badger.

 

[craig87c]

craig87c, give it a gentle combing from base to tips using the comb teeth that are closer together, this should help with the hollow center which happens occasionally. If you're really concerned contact the Vendor for his advice/recommendation.

If it happens every once in a while, it's no big deal. I just wasn't sure that I didn't ruin the brush so quickly after getting it. It lathers like nobody's business.

 

[El-a-Menthol]

I'd recommend a loft about 1 or 2mm shorter than your face lathering Badger Brush

I don't have a face lathering brush. I have a silvertip but it is clearly better at bowl lathering the softer soaps and creams.
That's why I'm looking for numbers.
With these numbers
Hair mix: 35% mane hair; 65% tail hair
Loft - 57mm.
Knot - 23mm.
Can you give me a estimation where to set loft? I have no experience at all so if I order you should be at least closer to the sweet spot then me.
Of course it is all personal, YMMV etc, I won't blame you if I don't like the brush when ordered at the loft height given by you.

 

[mftoms59]

I have no problem recommending a loft at your request, I just assumed you face lathered and had a preferred Badger for this purpose. I'd recommend setting it @ 49mm, it is an odd number and you should keep in mind the loft you receive won't be exactly 49mm, it could be as much as 2mm either way but more likely on the short side. This loft will be fine for Face Lathering and can easily be used to Bowl Lather as well, I'd give it 8-12 lathers to Break-in before deciding if the loft is acceptable. You might consider doing an initial Palm Lather, this will help you judge the scritch in the Brush without tearing up your face, more pressure= more scritch so practice your touch. Using very light pressure is difficult to maintain as most of us will use a fair amount when loading and lathering.

 

[El-a-Menthol]

Thank your for your reply and recommendation!
I began with bow lathering cream. Since I now mostly use soft soaps I found that after loading it's simply faster to build on my face, bowl lathering after loading seemed a unnecessary extra step. Plus face lathering give a good scrub and lifts the whiskers, all benefits. I also managed to keep RAD and SBAD under control until now. After reading here a lot I allowed myself any soap and cream as not to fall victim to the other "bottomless pits" lol.
It's a natural product plus some hairs stick out a bit more then others, so 1 or 2 mm off is not a issue to me.
Let's say it's dead on, would you be able to notice any difference to, say, 49mm and 50mm?
Or 50-53? Or 50-53?
If I order I'll make sure to post about it.

 

[mftoms59]

One millimeter wouldn't have much of an effect on the backbone, the equivalent of 1/32", but a 4 or 5mm difference or greater, would be noticeable whenever you're dealing with lofts at or over 50mm. In my opinion I think the knot size would also affect the difference in the backbone of the loft, since a smaller knot would have less hair than a bigger knot that was equally dense. An example would be two Shaving Brushes having a 55mm loft, one has a 20mm knot and the other has a 25mm knot of equal density, the bigger knot would have the stiffer loft.

 

[El-a-Menthol]

Yes I understand that. My fault for not including, I meant both at say 23mm, the knot I'm ordering.
I assumed 1 or 2 mm would not be noticeable. But I thought 3 might be in a very long run. Maybe not I don't know.
I'm thinking ordering one with a loft of 47-48mm now, just to make sure it has proper backbone.
Someone mentioned ordering a 23mm knot in 45mm and said it was a "real soap machine".
I figured being in between 45 and 50 would be a safe bet?
Do you/anybody else, think that this is overkill, or too stiff?

 

[packersfan117]

I'll be ordering a Vie-Long shortly. I'd prefer to have un-dyed hair in the brush, but I can't afford to pay for a custom piece yet. What I'd really like to do is get some black horsehair and make an ebony handle for it. One of these days, I'll get around to doing that. What'd be a good loft for bowl lathering?

 

[mftoms59]

Someone mentioned ordering a 23mm knot in 45mm and said it was a "real soap machine". I figured being in between 45 and 50 would be a safe bet? Do you/anybody else, think that this is overkill, or too stiff?

My R-V Handle has a V-L Natural Brown Horse @ 45/20mm which was very stiff and scritchy to start, after two months the backbone is still stiff, much less scritch with softer tips and remains a Soap Machine. A 23mm knot with a 45mm loft would be Shoe Brush stiffto start and would more than likely take an extra 20 lathers to really hit its stride. I think my suggestion of 49 or 50mm would be a good start point, since you will want a second and maybe third Horse, that's how it started for me. I do have another Horse, Banded @ 50/20 which is noticeably not as stiff but can load Tabac without trouble and it makes a nice Cream Brush as well. The Banded Horse gives me a different feel from my Natural Brown Horse, which is what you should want when having multiple Brushes with the same type hair.

 

[El-a-Menthol]

I'll be ordering a Vie-Long shortly. I'd prefer to have un-dyed hair in the brush, but I can't afford to pay for a custom piece yet. What I'd really like to do is get some black horsehair and make an ebony handle for it. One of these days, I'll get around to doing that. What'd be a good loft for bowl lathering?

They won't charge extra for setting a custom loft. Same price.
White bone with black hairwould be amazing. Ebony and black hair can't go wrong.

 

[El-a-Menthol]

My R-V Handle has a V-L Natural Brown Horse @ 45/20mm which was very stiff and scritchy to start, after two months the backbone is still stiff, much less scritch with softer tips and remains a Soap Machine. A 23mm knot with a 45mm loft would be Shoe Brush stiffto start and would more than likely take an extra 20 lathers to really hit its stride. I think my suggestion of 49 or 50mm would be a good start point, since you will want a second and maybe third Horse, that's how it started for me. I do have another Horse, Banded @ 50/20 which is noticeably not as stiff but can load Tabac without trouble and it makes a nice Cream Brush as well. The Banded Horse gives me a different feel from my Natural Brown Horse, which is what you should want when having multiple Brushes with the same type hair.

Thank you, I go with the initially recommended 49mm.
If it is a good soap leather-er and can handle creams (though my silvertip shines with them) then I honestly don't see why I should get another one or a third.
And I have a pretty good discipline, I only buy what I really need when it comes to razors and brushes.
EDIT: don't get me wrong, i see the way brushes look at me, waving their hair. The way razors shine.
But I fear the SBAD and RAD, so I only let myself go nuts with soaps and after shaves.
Only software and hardware I really have to need before I allow myself to buy it.
Will post when I have received it. Thnx for helping me out!

 

[mftoms59]

You're welcome El-a-Menthol, I'll look forward to your impressions of the Brush, don't forget a few before & after photos, a little Brush Porn is always appreciated.

 

[El-a-Menthol]

You're welcome El-a-Menthol, I'll look forward to your impressions of the Brush, don't forget a few before & after photos, a little Brush Porn is always appreciated.

Will do, but a fair warning in advance; my phone camera is low res with no flasher.
I usually hold a additional light source close to the object bit this can cast unwanted shadows.
We'll see how they work out.

 

[TAP119]

A little help here?

I just bought a very nice Vie-Long Horsehair Brush, #13061. However, it really stinks when wet. Wet dog is a genteel fragrance next to this horrible stench and some kind of evil lather from The Dark Side came out of this brush when I test-lathered it. That stuff was a hideous grayish-brown, not white.

Okay, what to do? How do I get the stench out of this horsehair brush? Keep lathering? Borax? Alcohol (rubbing kind for the brush, not booze for me; although on second thought....)? People shampoo seemed to help but it still stinks.

No, I'm not gonna use Barbicide. I already have a stinky brush; I don't need a green and stinky brush. i have learned that lesson.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[mftoms59]

Tap119, use a Teaspoon of White or Apple-Cider Vinegar for every 2oz of very cold water and soak ~10 minutes, the cold water helps set the dye (Banded Hair) and removes ~90% of the smell. Rinse & lather with a heavy scented soap like Tabac, Arko or Safari, let it stand in the lather ~20 minutes then rinse and let dry. The Brown Lather is normal for any dyed brush, without a Vinegar & cold water soak, your first 2-4 lathers will be brownish black.

 

[TAP119]

Tap119, use a Teaspoon of White or Apple-Cider Vinegar for every 2oz of very cold water and soak ~10 minutes, the cold water helps set the dye (Banded Hair) and removes ~90% of the smell. Rinse & lather with a heavy scented soap like Tabac, Arko or Safari, let it stand in the lather ~20 minutes then rinse and let dry. The Brown Lather is normal for any dyed brush, without a Vinegar & cold water soak, your first 2-4 lathers will be brownish black.

mftoms: thanks, very much for the advice. I will let you know how it turns out.

 

[mftoms59]

mftoms: thanks, very much for the advice. I will let you know how it turns out.

You're Welcome, enjoy your Brush, the Handle is nice and comfortable whether Face or Bowl Lathering and the knot will improve noticeably with daily use for the first two or three weeks.

 

[TAP119]

Dear mftoms:

Thanks very much for the advice. The smell seems to be gone after the vinegar and Tabac. I'm gonna try it out this morning.

Ted

 

[mftoms59]

Ted, glad that worked for you, I also use that Vinegar Water Solution to clean the Mineral Deposits & Soap scum from my Brushes when needed. If you have Hard Water I'd recommend a cleaning after 8 months of daily use, yearly if you have a Multiple Brush Rotation, or when you notice your brush holding less than the usual amount of lather.