DE razors with zero play, goof-proof alignment?

[shawnsel]

If I can get the data, I'm be interesting in adding a new, "Foolproof Loading" (or a similarly titled) notation to our wiki's Razor Comparison Chart to give credit to razors that are impossible to load off-center. I think most of us consumers would at least slightly prefer this ... but it's probably not easy for manufacturers to do since it likely requires designs that are unforgiving of even slight manufacturing flaws.

I realize that checking and resetting an improperly aligned blade takes about 5 seconds. I agree that it isn't a big deal, and it probably isn't a reason to not buy any specific razor ... I'm only wanting to give credit to those razors that do have "zero slop" and can be easily and accurately loaded every time. It seems like it is likely a desireable feature ... and I think most consumers would like to see more razors with "goof-proof alignment".


Clarification: by impossible to load off-center, I mean that top cap and baseplate have no play (not even a tenth of a mm) and that a standard DE blade loads into the head also with zero play. Also, of course, the zero-play blade has to be straight....


As an example, while I love my own ATT razor set, I have to exclude it from meeting this feature. While an ATT is relatively easy to load perfectly, and I think its maximum misalignment is relatively small (<.02mm?) ... I still load mine with tiny misalignments about a third of the time (NOTE: I check my loaded razor with a 7x magnifying mirror, so I probably catch very slight misalignments than most people would miss or ignore). While the blade does have zero play in the ATT top cap ... the top cap has a very slight amount of play with the baseplate (the top cap's pins are slightly smaller than the baseplate's holes)....


From what I've read, these are the currently-manufactured DE razors that to my understanding have zero alignment issues:

• Edwin Jagger (?)
• Feather AS-D2
• Feather Popular (?)
• all vintage Gillette models except the Old Type and the New Improved (?)
• iKon models with the alignment bar (OSS, Open Comb, Standard)
• LASSCo BBS-1
• Lord L6 (?)
• Muhle 89 (?)
• Parker TTO (?)
• RazoRock TTO (?)
• Standard Razor Brand razor (?)
• Wilkinson Sword Classic
• Weishi TTO (aka Micro Touch One, Vanderhagen, etc) (?)
• Wolfman

Am I missing any that meet this specification?

Are you able to confirm from experience that any of these are impossible to misalign by even a tenth of a mm?

Or, are you able to purposefully misalign any of these in this list?



Also, my understanding is that vintage Gillette's have zero slop blade loading? Are there vintage Gillette razors that do have slight alignment issues?



Thoughts? Again, it really isn't a reason in itself to either buy or not buy a particular razor ... but wouldn't it be a worthy feature to note in the comparison chart?


Thanks!
Shawn

p.s. Also, what term should I settle on calling this feature?

• "Perfect alignment"
• "Goof-proof alignment"
• "Foolproof alignment"
• "Zero play blade loading" ?
• "Zero slop blade loading" ?
• other?

 

[jeff2011]

My slim adjustable is tried and true as is my good will open comb.

 

[BigJ]

Wolfman and LASS are both made by James Dufour in Canada. No surprise that these are similar in aligning perfectly, IMO. James' work is top notch.

 

[hydro-magic]

The Gillette Old type requires some fiddling to get the blade aligned. All the others are good. ATT always aligns correctly for me. My Futur is always perfect. And if I use the right technique to load my Progress, it's always good too but the wrong technique will misalign the blade.

 

[objectuser]

As someone new to DE shaving, this is confusing to me. Before I bought my first DE razor, I remember reading about misalignment in a Merkur 34c and was really surprised. I assumed that (effectively) perfect alignment was something that was solved. In my mind, a razor that doesn't properly align its blade is defective.

I am still checking the alignment each time I load a blade in my two DEs right now. Each time, the blades have seemed perfectly aligned to the naked eye and seem to have no play at all, as in, I can't improperly align them. My razors are those really high end types: Lord L6 and Micro Touch One. Yes, the epitome of top of the line quality, obviously.

So am I misunderstanding what you mean?

 

[shawnsel]

As someone new to DE shaving, this is confusing to me. Before I bought my first DE razor, I remember reading about misalignment in a Merkur 34c and was really surprised. I assumed that (effectively) perfect alignment was something that was solved. In my mind, a razor that doesn't properly align its blade is defective.

I am still checking the alignment each time I load a blade in my two DEs right now. Each time, the blades have seemed perfectly aligned to the naked eye and seem to have no play at all, as in, I can't improperly align them. My razors are those really high end types: Lord L6 and Micro Touch One. Yes, the epitome of top of the line quality, obviously.

So am I misunderstanding what you mean?

Post #9 in this thread has two photos which show a more extreme case of bad blade alignment:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...-blade-alignment-issues?p=4232759#post4232759


I'll try to take some more photos of what I mean later this evening.


Cheers,
Shawn

 

[objectuser]

OK, yeah, that's exactly what I had in mind. Thanks. I can understand if some early DE razors had alignment issues. Or razors that have deteriorated in quality over time.

But otherwise, if I bought a new razor and it didn't align the blade correctly every time, I would consider it defective. Is that not the prevailing view?

 

[Feather-man]

It might be the prevailing view. But to me, primarily a vintage user, it's a non issue.

 

[kingfisher]

any of the vintage Gillette razors that use bullets to hold the blade are subject to misalignment to one degree or another. therefore you can add the New Improved to the Old Type on the list.

 

[kingfisher]

Also, the Tradere and the iKon SBS load the blade perfectly every time.
I don't know about the Pils, but I imagine it does, too.
Also the iKon Deluxe OC.

 

[Parjay]

I am guessing this is going to be YMMV. There are threads full of people who say that the RRSS is the best razor on the planet, and all they need to do is drop a blade in and it shaves automatically. Those same threads include folks who claim that no amount of muscle and/or finesse could ever align a blade in those razors. Couldn't the tolerances in manufacturing make two of the same razor fall on opposite sides of the spectrum?

 

[franz]

Couldn't the tolerances in manufacturing make two of the same razor fall on opposite sides of the spectrum?

That is the thought I had as well.

 

[shawnsel]

OK, yeah, that's exactly what I had in mind. Thanks. I can understand if some early DE razors had alignment issues. Or razors that have deteriorated in quality over time.

But otherwise, if I bought a new razor and it didn't align the blade correctly every time, I would consider it defective. Is that not the prevailing view?

Those photos were an extreme case, and I'm assuming by his post that his razor could not be fiddled with to fix his alignment issue. In his case, I would agree that its defective.

The more subtle cases come in where a blade can get misaligned (like that, but usually less so) ... but then if you take it apart and reassemble it, then the blade may be aligned perfectly. Sometimes a proper technique is required (often putting the top cap on a flat surface, and then assembling the razor upside down). Sometime people assemble them loosely and then press on the side tabs of the razor to manually tweak the alignment. So, the issue may be perceived as error in assembly rather the a defect in the razor....

However, I worry a bit that even the subtle cases with proper technique and a visual check, may result in visually indiscernible misalignments. While this sounds like it should be insignificant, this ~1958 Gillette Salesman Manual seems to indicate that even microscopic differences in blade exposure might be significant. While blade angle factors into this too ... it still makes me worry that having a blade misaligned by even a tenth of a mm might noticeably affect the shave....

(Specifically, on page 5 of the manual there is a chart where their adjustable razor is said to go from setting 1 (most mild) to setting 9 (most aggressive) by adjusting blade exposure by only 0.008 inches (0.20 mm) and also by making the blade angle larger by 10 degrees. So, apparently, each numbered adjustment setting changes blade exposure by only 0.025 mm and angle by 1.25 degrees.)

So, especially for shavers new to DEs who might not know if a bad shave was due to them or due to a misaligned blade, I can see some advantage to getting a razor where you can not load it wrong. Where there is no technique or skill required to load it. Those are the razors that I'm trying to get a list of and give some credit to in the wiki's comparison chart.

BTW, do your Lord L6 and Micro Touch One razors have fool-proof blade loading? I've read that TTO's often have horizontal bars that snugly hold the blade, and as long as the butterfly doors don't wiggle around then that should be a design without alignment worries. If you fiddle with blade or top cap ... is it possible to misalign your two razors?

 

[shawnsel]

Also, the Tradere and the iKon SBS load the blade perfectly every time.
I don't know about the Pils, but I imagine it does, too.
Also the iKon Deluxe OC.

Sadly, the Tradere is no longer currently manufactured....

Is the iKon SBS and Deluxe OC still made?

 

[shawnsel]

I am guessing this is going to be YMMV. There are threads full of people who say that the RRSS is the best razor on the planet, and all they need to do is drop a blade in and it shaves automatically. Those same threads include folks who claim that no amount of muscle and/or finesse could ever align a blade in those razors. Couldn't the tolerances in manufacturing make two of the same razor fall on opposite sides of the spectrum?

I agree that tolerances could definitely make a razor unalignable. Also, I'm hesitant to recommend the RRSS while it is still in prototyping (and still getting production kinks worked out). Unless it's come out of prototyping and I missed the news ... to me the RRSS is not really "currently manufactured" (although it is certainly promising!).

 

[shawnsel]

any of the vintage Gillette razors that use bullets to hold the blade are subject to misalignment to one degree or another. therefore you can add the New Improved to the Old Type on the list.

Could you clarify? Are you saying that the vintage Gillette New Improved and Old Type are foolproof perfectly aligned?

 

[tgb53]

From what I've read, these are the currently-manufactured DE razors that to my understanding have zero alignment issues:

• Feather AS-D2

+1 It's perfection.

 

[objectuser]

BTW, do your Lord L6 and Micro Touch One razors have fool-proof blade loading? I've read that TTO's often have horizontal bars that snugly hold the blade, and as long as the butterfly doors don't wiggle around then that should be a design without alignment worries. If you fiddle with blade or top cap ... is it possible to misalign your two razors?

I don't know if it's fool-proof, but I'm not able to misalign the blade even if I try. I just tried moving the blade in each to the side while I tightened each and the blade moves to a visually perfect alignment. It's been the same for the different brands of blades I've tried.

 

[AbbyW2]

Merkur Progress with the Mergress upgrade

 

[DanCPA]

I don't think I could misalign my Wolfman if I wanted to. I think it's impossible. The same is true for my AS-D2, although there is definitely more play prior to tightening (probably true for my Popular as well).

I've never had an alignment issue with my NEWs or Tech.