Question about all these shave ratings

[GaryTha]

Aggressiveness means many things.

1. A person who pursues his goal forcefully could be aggressive.
2. A person who is wiling to be confrontational could be aggressive.

Ironically, I think it is fair to say you yourself could be called aggressive in both sense 1 & 2.
☺

However, aggressiveness is misused to describe razors. What people want is efficiency, the ability to get a closer shave in fewer passes. This is a good thing for a person with a heavy beard and/or a fast-growing beard. Fewer passes can mean less irritation and time saved. A closer shave means a longer-lasting shave. These are worthwhile things that have nothing to do with doing violence or chasing women.

I am aggressive based on the criteria you stated. People often think I'm confrontational. Internally, I dissociate from both sides and search for truth. It's difficult to find people who approach a topic scientifically.

The sex and violence motivations came from the book I quoted. I may elaborate later.

You expertly described one case where a person can't shave with what I call a "standard deviation razor." A smart company like Gillette will make a razor that shaves everyone within one standard deviation of average difficulty; that is, 82.5% of the population for a one-tail test.

I'm heading towards a goal of postulating that common rating methods can lead a shaver to shaving addictions. They can also lead the shaver to focus on effects instead of causes.

My "simply elegant" rating method is the visible part of an infinitely complex shaving philosophy that contains all the deepest secrets of creation.

 

[Esox]

Or Too Long.....

 

[TinyT]

I miss Top Gear...

Yep, me too. Have you seen the new ones?

 

[Esox]

Have you seen the new ones?

I watched the latest episode of BBC's Top Gear, the only episode I've seen since they left. Talk about diminishing returns, wow lol.

The last episode of The Grand Tour seemed forced. Its not hard to tell they're now working a job and not having as much fun.

 

[Ryanshh]

And also that 85% of statistics are made up on the spot. [emoji16]

This is a very informative and interesting thread that I will follow. It’s something I’ve never really thought about even when reading other reviews, much less reviewing from my point of view.

Maybe the information here will help me when I review 3 very different slants in the very near future. I have already decided that the reviews will not be posted until I have spent at least a month with each of the 2 new ones that I have recently added.


AoM; B.O.S.S.;Knight of the Veg Table;MFR2019

I look forward to hearing your thoughts and will try to remember to keep an eye out for your reviews in the somewhat distant future. I appreciate your desire to spend time getting to know the different razors so you can speak from a somewhat equal playing field for all of them. Thanks for your input.

Many think aggression level means progress, especially newcomers. Suddenly the razor that has been giving you great shaves isn't good enough because you can't feel the blade enough. Neutral/Negative blade exposure? What are you a *****? You are not manly enough unless you use that R41 every single day. I am waaaaaaaaaaay off topic but If a razor works then keep using it. There might be another razor out there that can give a better result, maybe the best result. I've bought some razors, mostly heads. Not expecting a better result, but a different experience.

I like your point about a different experience and I feel like this ties in well with your initial point about equating aggression to progress. When I first started shaving I was terrified to use a DE razor at all and I had to build to using a feather in a razor as I had seen time and time again that they are, "THE MOST AGGRESSIVE GRRRRR!!!!" Because of this association, being able to use a Feather blade comfortably seemed like an accomplishment and like it might speak to my increased skill at the task. In the end, however, I believe it ties back to your final point... it's just different. Thanks for your input and for causing me to think.

@Ryanshh good thread topic! I’ve been reviewing blades here for a couple years and i had the same conundrum with rating them as you outlined in your post. The way i finally settled on was to break down each blade by perceived sharpness, smoothness, longevity and consistency. With price also factored in. I use the same setup for each blade so i remove all of the variables except my technique (which hasn’t really changed) and how my face is doing on that particular day. But breaking down the categories i can try to highlight each of the blades good and bad qualities as i see them and let people form their own opinions as to whether it’s something they’d be interested in trying. I also try to emphasize what i thought people might like about the blade even if it isn’t my cup o’ tea. I then give it my own subjective rating at the end (1-10 scale) to let people know how i personally liked it. As you said, it’s way too subjective a topic to assign a hard and fast number to that would actually mean anything, but on a personal level i think we all know what we like in all things and grade accordingly. But in reviews i think it’s always important to remember that there are some qualities we dislike that others might perceive as a positive so i try to keep that in mind when i do reviews.

I appreciate reviews that provide context to the number and that recognize that other people look for/enjoy different things from shaving. Obviously everyone rates things differently, and thank goodness for that otherwise these forums would be an absolute bore, but finding users who tend to have similar likes and dislikes (or polar opposite likes and dislikes) can help make some decisions easier. Even if I am not looking at a review with the intention of buying the product, it is nice to see items put in a context that is accessible. Thanks for your input.

I am aggressive based on the criteria you stated. People often think I'm confrontational. Internally, I dissociate from both sides and search for truth. It's difficult to find people who approach a topic scientifically.

The sex and violence motivations came from the book I quoted. I may elaborate later.

You expertly described one case where a person can't shave with what I call a "standard deviation razor." A smart company like Gillette will make a razor that shaves everyone within one standard deviation of average difficulty; that is, 82.5% of the population for a one-tail test.

I'm heading towards a goal of postulating that common rating methods can lead a shaver to shaving addictions. They can also lead the shaver to focus on effects instead of causes.

My "simply elegant" rating method is the visible part of an infinitely complex shaving philosophy that contains all the deepest secrets of creation.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by, "shaving addictions?" Is this your way of succinctly grouping the various acquisition disorders or are you thinking of something different? Furthermore, in your binary rating system, you don't factor in razor burn/"post-shave feeling" is this because you never have discomfort after a shave? I guess always having a similar level of discomfort is an option. I ask because I am struggling to decide if a small weeper, easily controlled with a cold water rinse, would qualify as a worse shave than a bloodless shave that left my face feeling and/or neck feeling unpleasant for an extended period of time.

As for being taken as confrontational, this reminds me of a couple of my favorite High School English teachers. They constantly told us to avoid using, "I think" in an essay because it weakens an argument and if you aren't quoting something the reader knows you are stating your thoughts otherwise you wouldn't have written it. As I started having people peer review things at University or had people read in other contexts, I naturally avoided using I think. This caused multiple people to tell me that I sounded aggressive, combative, confrontational, or "like a jerk". As an experiment I had someone read an essay where the only change was the addition of, "I think" randomly interspersed in the text. This essay was never deemed overly aggressive.

Not that you necessarily care about being perceived as aggressive or confrontational, but I thought it was amazing how much power the presence or absence of two words could be. Which, bringing it back to the larger topic of my own thread, I notice when people post reviews on this forum (and online in general). When the author of a review states his/her findings without hedging with "I think" or "YMMV", many people take the review as an aggressive proclamation of presumed fact instead of the clearly stated opinion of the reviewer. I don't want to get too far into the pros or cons of this approach or how people interpret forum posts, but it's an interesting micro-tangent.

 

[Billski]

To Long. Didn't Read.

I didn’t either.

 

[Brian C.]

I look forward to hearing your thoughts and will try to remember to keep an eye out for your reviews in the somewhat distant future. I appreciate your desire to spend time getting to know the different razors so you can speak from a somewhat equal playing field for all of them. Thanks for your input.

Thank you. I have been using one for quite awhile now and I am currently using the second one. The third one will be here tomorrow and will be used for the month of February.

As someone stated earlier, using something any less than this does not accumulate enough data for a proper evaluation. This is the main reason I look for multiple reviews on here about any particular product whether it be software or hardware.

 

[GaryTha]

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by, "shaving addictions?" Is this your way of succinctly grouping the various acquisition disorders or are you thinking of something different? Furthermore, in your binary rating system, you don't factor in razor burn/"post-shave feeling" is this because you never have discomfort after a shave? I guess always having a similar level of discomfort is an option. I ask because I am struggling to decide if a small weeper, easily controlled with a cold water rinse, would qualify as a worse shave than a bloodless shave that left my face feeling and/or neck feeling unpleasant for an extended period of time.

As for being taken as confrontational, this reminds me of a couple of my favorite High School English teachers. They constantly told us to avoid using, "I think" in an essay because it weakens an argument and if you aren't quoting something the reader knows you are stating your thoughts otherwise you wouldn't have written it. As I started having people peer review things at University or had people read in other contexts, I naturally avoided using I think. This caused multiple people to tell me that I sounded aggressive, combative, confrontational, or "like a jerk". As an experiment I had someone read an essay where the only change was the addition of, "I think" randomly interspersed in the text. This essay was never deemed overly aggressive.

Not that you necessarily care about being perceived as aggressive or confrontational, but I thought it was amazing how much power the presence or absence of two words could be. Which, bringing it back to the larger topic of my own thread, I notice when people post reviews on this forum (and online in general). When the author of a review states his/her findings without hedging with "I think" or "YMMV", many people take the review as an aggressive proclamation of presumed fact instead of the clearly stated opinion of the reviewer. I don't want to get too far into the pros or cons of this approach or how people interpret forum posts, but it's an interesting micro-tangent.

1. I should have said acquisition disorders. I did mean to group them all
.
2. I never get razor burn or the micro-nicks that create the Mennen Skin Bracer Moment. If I did get razor burn, they would count as one.

3. Over the last six or seven years, I've studied thousands of research papers about diet. I learned about using hedging words without weakening the position. Generally, I'll use quotes from authoritative sources as an opinion hook.

This caused multiple people to tell me that I sounded aggressive, combative, confrontational, or "like a jerk"

This is fascinating.

4. I don't try to be confrontational, but I won't back off an opinion because someone holds the opposite one. A rabbi taught me to hold an opinion in my left hand, an opposite opinion in my right hand, and bring them together as in prayer to form shalom. Shalom implies unity and harmony.

 

[Atlantic59]

Not that you necessarily care about being perceived as aggressive or confrontational, but I thought it was amazing how much power the presence or absence of two words could be.

Confrontation and aggression can be positive, interesting and enlightening. I really enjoy posts by @GaryTha or others here, that challenge me to think differently.

...As for being taken as confrontational, this reminds me of a couple of my favorite High School English teachers. They constantly told us to avoid using, "I think" in an essay because it weakens an argument and if you aren't quoting something the reader knows you are stating your thoughts otherwise you wouldn't have written it. As I started having people peer review things at University or had people read in other contexts, I naturally avoided using I think. This caused multiple people to tell me that I sounded aggressive, combative, confrontational, or "like a jerk". As an experiment I had someone read an essay where the only change was the addition of, "I think" randomly interspersed in the text. This essay was never deemed overly aggressive.

We aren't talking about essays here, though. If you want to persuade people to your point-of-view, you don't want to alienate them so they won't even listen to what you have to say.

...I made it a rule to forbear all direct contradiction to the sentiments of others, and all positive assertion of my own. I even forbid myself, agreeably to the old laws of our Junto, the use of every word or expression in the language that imported a fixed opinion, such as certainly, undoubtedly, etc., and I adopted, instead of them, I conceive, I apprehend, or I imagine a thing to be so or so, or it so appears to me at present. When another asserted something that I thought an error, I denied myself the pleasure of contradicting him abruptly and of showing immediately some absurdity in his proposition; and in answering, I began by observing that in certain cases or circumstances his opinion would be right, but in the present case there appeared or seemed to me some difference, etc. I soon found the advantage of this charge in my manner; the conversations I engaged in went on more pleasantly.

The modest way in which I proposed my opinions procured them a readier reception and less contradiction; I had less mortification when I was found to be in the wrong, and I more easily prevailed with others to give up their mistakes and join with me when I happened to be in the right.
-Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin

 

[Rhody]

To Long. Didn't Read.

five stars!

unfortunately 5 stars means outstanding and competent. I think uber drivers have a way to rate passengers and a low rating means you might not get a ride.

a 1-10 scale for shaving is way too complicated for me. I like the no blood ratings and probably do that. Blood that requires more attention and time delaying my morning timeframe stinks.

 

[Brian C.]

I’m surprised @RayClem hasn’t landed on this yet. He has a fairly detailed rating system.


AoM; B.O.S.S.;Knight of the Veg Table;MFR2019

 

[GaryTha]

Confrontation and aggression can be positive, interesting and enlightening. I really enjoy posts by @GaryTha or others here, that challenge me to think differently.

We aren't talking about essays here, though. If you want to persuade people to your point-of-view, you don't want to alienate them so they won't even listen to what you have to say.

150 Word Essays

Lately, many of my posts have been exactly 150-word essays. That is why the club is listed in my signature.

An essay is the condensation of thoughts into a short article. One general format is a thesis, three supporting points, and a summation. In a well-structured essay, each paragraph is a mini-essay, each sentence is a micro essay, and each word is a supporting point.

The purpose of my essays is to add a brick to the house of the topic. I gather bricks from others to build the house of the topic. This house stands in the neighborhood of the shaving forum.

My "period" rating system is a condensation of everything I know about shaving into the smallest punctuation mark.

It's then a simple matter to expand the presence or absence of a period of blood into a summation of shaving techniques that were used.

Period.

 

[Billy T.]

150 words exactly. He wasn't kidding.

 

[Atlantic59]

...An essay is the condensation of thoughts into a short article...

It seems to me, an internet forum is about conversation. It should be interactive and dynamic. People publishing articles for others to read seems rather one-sided.

 

[Steinmetzify]

I have a set of things that usually gives me a 10.

Blackbird, DG/B&M/WSP Matterhorn, good brush from Envy/TDR/Grizzly Bay and a Gillette Platinum.

I don’t often vary from this setup, as doing so more often results in lower ratings.

Other things that come into play are focus and relaxing into the shave with enough time to accomplish the task without rushing, and whether or not there was blood involved.

If I’m on point with technique, using the above setup and have enough time to relax into it, the result is at least a DFS and if I do 3 passes it’ll be BBS.

I’ve been doing this long enough now that most of my shaves are 9s or better.

 

[GaryTha]

It seems to me, an internet forum is about conversation. It should be interactive and dynamic. People publishing articles for others to read seems rather one-sided.

Two Camels

I agree "interactive" and "dynamic" are two excellent criteria for rating a thread. I look for threads that form a Master Mind.

The "Master Mind" may be defined as: "Coordination of knowledge and effort, in a spirit of (perfect) harmony, between two or more people, for the attainment of a definite purpose."​

Hill, Napoleon. The Classic Napoleon Hill Masterpiece THINK AND GROW RICH [Illustrated & Annotated] (p. 128). Northpointe Classics. Kindle Edition.​

​

Note: Coordination is interactive. Positive dynamics imply that the process moves forward towards the goal.​

Before making this post, I walked far enough to buy two camels.

My exactly 150-word essays have much in common with a letter. However, they are conversational in the sense they take 33 seconds to read or 50 seconds to read aloud. Then it's the other person's turn.

Our interaction would be different if we were tasked with writing a military regulation.

 

[RayClem]

I’m surprised @RayClem hasn’t landed on this yet. He has a fairly detailed rating system.


AoM; B.O.S.S.;Knight of the Veg Table;MFR2019

Although I do have a detailed system for rating shaving soaps and I do evaluate razor blades for sharpness and smoothness, I have never really gotten into rating the shave of the day. I never shave using the same setup two days in a row as I am using different razors, blades, brushes and soaps every day. The only time I have shave that would not score 9-10 is when I am evaluating a lesser quality soap or cream "for the sake of science".

If I use a razor blade that starts to tug or feels harsh, I will quickly grab another razor to complete the shave. I have recently gone back to using straight razors after using DE razors for a while. In some instances, either due to a poor edge or poor shaving technique, I have made one stroke with the straight razor and then laid it down because it did not cut like I wanted. However, I still end up with a great shave in the end using other tools.

 

[Ryanshh]

We aren't talking about essays here, though. If you want to persuade people to your point-of-view, you don't want to alienate them so they won't even listen to what you have to say.

You make some great points and I too enjoy reading @GaryTha's opinions. I didn't mean to imply that confrontation was bad but appreciate your thoughts on the topic. I haven't read the Ben Franklin quote before and like it a lot. One thing I thought was interesting is that in his stated outcomes protecting his ego when wrong was listed before prevailing when right. Is this relevant or important? I don't know.

I agree with the importance of not alienating people and was attempting to bring up this point in my rambling essay story. Thanks for getting the point more eloquently.

I’m surprised @RayClem hasn’t landed on this yet. He has a fairly detailed rating system.

@RayClem's rating system was a motivating factor for this post. I asked him a follow-up question on one of his posts and his answer provided sufficient context for me to better understand his system. This got me interested in other people's methods.

@Steinmetzify, sounds like you are getting some great shaves and have taken time to get to know your chosen setup. Congrats! I like the inclusion of your ability to, "relax into the shave." Some shaves feel truly relaxing while others do feel a bit more necessity based.

 

[GaryTha]

I have a set of things that usually gives me a 10.

Blackbird, DG/B&M/WSP Matterhorn, good brush from Envy/TDR/Grizzly Bay and a Gillette Platinum.

I don’t often vary from this setup, as doing so more often results in lower ratings.

Other things that come into play are focus and relaxing into the shave with enough time to accomplish the task without rushing, and whether or not there was blood involved.

If I’m on point with technique, using the above setup and have enough time to relax into it, the result is at least a DFS and if I do 3 passes it’ll be BBS.

I’ve been doing this long enough now that most of my shaves are 9s or better.

Goal Orientation

In my book "Simply Navigating Off Trails (SNOT)", I developed a trigonometric method of compass navigation. At the start of every direction change, I started counting paces to measure the distance. I used a table to determine how far I progressed towards the goal and how far I went left or right of the desired course.

The sketch above defines harmony as vertical movement. Progress towards or away from the goal is horizontal. The optimum solution is in the Northeast corner where there is perfect harmony and a positive result.

Perhaps, it's time to synthesize our inputs through brainstorming into a first draft. I suggest we use the following outline. I used Steinmetizify's post as an example.

1. Mental (Red)​

​

Focused​

Relaxed​

2. Physical (Yellow)​

​

Setup​

Unrushed​

Technique​

​

3. Results (Green)​

​

DFS​

BBS​

Numerical Rating​

Blood​

There are methods of accelerating interactions to create a conversational SNOT Rocket.

 

[Atlantic59]

One thing I thought was interesting is that in his stated outcomes protecting his ego when wrong was listed before prevailing when right. Is this relevant or important? I don't know.

Ben Franklin's Autobiography is great reading and often very witty. In context, he has decided to put himself on a self-improvement program by focusing on one key virtue at a time. Here, it is the virtue of humility. He realizes that acting proud made things more difficult in his past, but acting with humility avoided damage to his ego and made him more effective in persuading others.