Coti slurry: keeping wet without diluting

Second try with the Coti today. Dulled the edge and hit the 1k until I was shaving arm hair. I raised a cream like slurry. Did about 30-40 passes. Slurry turned black. So the first question is as the slurry starts to dry you add water but when you add water doesnt it dilutes it.

Second question is how do you know when to dilute it? I just added water after 30ish passes until it was just water. Never did cut a hanging hair. I finally just stropped and shaved with it. It wasn't bad. Just wasn't super close. Not sharp enough.

Yes, adding water dilutes it, as does adding steel (honing). You're always diluting your slurry. The key is to manage your water (and avoid pushing slurry off the stone inadvertently) with those complications in mind.

How to know? It depends on the stone and razor in question. In many cases, there are fairly apparent changes in feedback, audio, or other signals. In others, I just err on the side of overkill. Doing an extra ten or twenty passes before a necessary dilution doesn't hurt anyone.

Wityh films and synthetic stones I look for scratch removal, does this work with a coti as well?

Scratch removal isn't reliable anywhere near the grits we're working with, in my opinion.

I do look for scratch removal during dilution. Before moving to final finishing on water, I look for an even, scratchless, matte finish. After finishing on water and stropping should have a mirror finish with no visible scratches. Also coti edges benefit unusually well from stropping, I usually go from hht-1 to 3 or more after stropping

Some of mine have good tactile feel where it is really obvious that the blade is smoothing out at each dilution stage until it stops in any discernible way and I add more water. Some have audio tells. On straight water, I tend to look how the edge is interacting with it as it moves along the hone. I have one where it starts feeling like the blade is sucking to the hone when it is nearly there. I only have one that feels like I am dragging my razor over mucky glass no matter what. I also tend to go over at each stage because for whatever reason, you can't seem to overhone on a coticule really.

I like swapping slurry stones to see how it changes things as well. I do have a particular fondness for La Veinette slurry on my Les Lats. finishes so well that it takes a minimum of water only laps to be shave ready.

I see wetting slurry two ways...

Lets say your slurry doesn't leave the stone.
While honing - it starts to dry out or even 'froth up' a bit - wetting it down dilutes what will be mud back to 'wet' but if you are careful - you don't neccessarily dilute it past the original thickness. You may want to do this, or not. Depends on what you're doing. I see this as wetting, not diluting. Yes - it's splitting hairs. Pun intended. Technically, since the start point is dryer it's diluting but for the sake of dicussion I seperate this from what I see are 'really' diluting the slurry.

If some slurry gets pushed off while honing, adding water will thin out the slurry more readily.
At that point - then the slurry has been diluted past the original density and to me - that is a 'real' dilution.
Also - it's possible to just dilute the slurry to a thinner state on a large stone without moving any slurry off.
At some point though - I usually wind up 'releasing' some of the gravy off the stone to thin it out.

Is there a case for removing the original slurry and raise fresh stuff? I'm thinking when the slurry gets dark from the metal.

I think as you get toward finishing you may with to raise a fresh thin slurry, or if you don't quite get the result you want on plain water go back and do a very thin slurry and dilute to plain water.
See here: http://www.coticule.be/dilucot-honing-method.html The side bar "Wicked tips from Gary Haywood"

"Right wicked there, guy."

You might want to make a thicker slurry I guess. Usually at the end I do clear the stone and start with a light 'trace' slurry.
There's a million ways to do this though - everyone will find their own 'spot' in the sun I think.

dakotajfarley said:

I do look for scratch removal during dilution. Before moving to final finishing on water, I look for an even, scratchless, matte finish. After finishing on water and stropping should have a mirror finish with no visible scratches. Also coti edges benefit unusually well from stropping, I usually go from hht-1 to 3 or more after stropping

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Hmm, maybe your coti is different than mine (La Verte) but mine leaves plenty of visible scratches on straight water. I don't test HHT before stropping, but after its usually HHT3 to sometimes HHT4 in places occasionally.

I add a couple drops of water if slurry gets too thick/dry by putting my finger under running water then letting the drops fall on the stone. When starting dilution I usually just run the razor under the faucet to rinse off the residual slurry then bring that little bit of water that remains on the razor back to the stone. So in effect it removes some slurry and adds some water. I do this a few times, honing in-between, then rinse the stone and razor, wipe the stone with my finger under running water, the razor with a paper towel to remove residual grit, and switch to straight water.

eKretz said:

Hmm, maybe your coti is different than mine (La Verte) but mine leaves plenty of visible scratches on straight water. I don't test HHT before stropping, but after its usually HHT3 to sometimes HHT4 in places occasionally.

I add a couple drops of water if slurry gets too thick/dry by putting my finger under running water then letting the drops fall on the stone. When starting dilution I usually just run the razor under the faucet to rinse off the residual slurry then bring that little bit of water that remains on the razor back to the stone. So in effect it removes some slurry and adds some water. I do this a few times, honing in-between, then rinse the stone and razor, wipe the stone with my finger under running water, the razor with a paper towel to remove residual grit, and switch to straight water.

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I have a La dressante. Mine feels almost like glass on plain water, and is almost painfully slow on water. Anyway after finishing I usually have a mirror finish. When I get off work, I might try to get a pic of the bevel. Swmbo has a nice camera and some skills so we'll see

My method is completely different.

I avoid using slurry stones. I think you got a La Grise hone, and you set your bevels with a 1000 Grit synthetic.

Try to hone with a little more pressure, ( about 600g, you can check this using a kitchens dare ??) starting with water only.
What is the benefit?
Starting with a heavy slurry you got a grit like about 2000, starting with no slurry you got a estimated grit of about 8000.
The stone will start to release an autoslurry, wich is maybe around 4000 (because it is thiner). So when the autoslurry is dark grey/black, just wash your razor and repeat, with less pressure and so on.

Do a thump pad test during the honing, to check the improvement.

If you do an ordinary dulicot/unicot you can just clean your razor under a running tap, if the slurry gets too dry. This should add enough fresh water to the progression.

Greets Sebastian.

I think people named that method "pacocot" after a member named Paco who did a video of start to finish honing on a coticule using pressure instead of slurry.


As to refreshing slurry. I never do. Nothing wrong with doing so. I just don't. Never felt it necessary.

Pacocot?

Yeah - he thought making slurry wasted stone or something along those lines.

Gamma said:

Yeah - he thought making slurry wasted stone or something along those lines.

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I think this is a completely wrong thought! You maybe save your slurrystone, but not the basestone. That don`t matter, cause with maybe 0,5cm of coticule (even a soft one) you can sharpen hundrets or even more razors.

Used with knives coticules are pretty fast worn out. I got a very fast and pretty soft coti, that weared down during a year of sharpening in pro kitchen use (i sharpened the knives of my working mates too.).

Greets Sebastian.

Exactly.
Just like razors, cameras, screwdrivers, knives, etc; they're tools - they wear. That's just part of the game.