I have a petite Blanche coticule that so far I've only used to finish a razor with a properly set bevel. The stone is roughly 5" x 1.5" and has a natural BBW side. I'd like to start from bevel to finish (will probably go to a thuri after coti just because I like the edge a bit better). So my question is which side should I use to cut a bevel on? My instinct would be to start slurry on the BBW side with a taped spine (this is a near wedge Sheffield with a smile) then dilute until water then repeat process on the coti side using rolling x the whole time. Now according to the unicot and dilucot methods this seems to be wrong. According to those I should only be using the coti side with no tape and half strokes with slurry to set the bevel and then tape and dilute to finish the blade. Now to me I've always assumed if you start with tape then you continue with tape? So any help would be appreciated. I hate cutting too wide of a bevel so the tape seems to be the key to that.
Help with coticule.
- Thread starter scag315
- Start date
There are a variety of valid options. You can use just the BBW or just the Coticule, or start on the BBW and finish on the Coticule as you suggested. I would just use the Coticule to keep it simple.
Using one layer of tape from start to finish is probably a good idea with your near wedge.
If you are going to follow with a Thuri, you can just follow the Dilucot procedure with one layer of tape from start to finish.
The Unicot procedure would be an option instead of going to the Thuri, where you would add a second layer of tape after the Dilucot and dilute from a light slurry to water. However, if you went to the Thuri after the Unicot, you would keep two layers of tape.
- Thread starter
- #3
Thanks! I'm still about reluctant about cutting a bevel using a Coti. I have a naniwa 1k SS but that's reeeeeeeeal slow. I also have a carborundum that's super fast at cutting bevels and a vintage norton stone that seems to be a good bevel setter but requires a lot of care due to how harsh it can be. It cuts a bevel faster than you would believe just requires a bit more follow up than other synths to get rid of the scratches. Bevel setting being so important (probably most important) part of honing that I hate to screw it up.
I've set a bevel on a coti... my recommendation is save the coti thickness and use the naniwa or carborundum
I have no experience with Naniwa superstones, but I doubt your Coticule will be faster than the 1k. How much pressure are you using?
As much as I enjoy honing on a Coticule, I also prefer to set the bevel on a synthetic.
As much as I enjoy honing on a Coticule, I also prefer to set the bevel on a synthetic.
Typically, the Coticule side with slurry will be faster cutting than the BBW side with slurry. I would suggest starting with the Coticule side and working the blade until you have the bevel set. How bad it the bevel? I has set/corrected many, many bevels on Coticules, but if there is damage I will usually go to a synthetic 1k for repair work.
The point of unicot is to add a single layer of tape (or a second layer if you started the whole process with a single layer) at the final finishing stage to increase the angle thus creating a secondary "micro" bevel which is much easier to hit keeness on than the original wider bevel. Most honers start with dilucot, fail to get the keenness they want, then add tape for the win.
The point of dilucot is to start with a slurry and slowly add water throughout the honing process until it is time to rinse the razor and stone for a clean water finish. Tape or no tape is irrelevant for dilucot, you just need to finish however you started.
If you want to use the BBW side. I would set the bevel on the Coticule side with slurry, then rinse everything and work up a slurry on the BBW side to refine through using dilutions and possibly finish the edge. More than likely you won't hit the keenness you want on the BBW side at which point you can rinse everything for clean water laps on the Coticule side.
The point of unicot is to add a single layer of tape (or a second layer if you started the whole process with a single layer) at the final finishing stage to increase the angle thus creating a secondary "micro" bevel which is much easier to hit keeness on than the original wider bevel. Most honers start with dilucot, fail to get the keenness they want, then add tape for the win.
The point of dilucot is to start with a slurry and slowly add water throughout the honing process until it is time to rinse the razor and stone for a clean water finish. Tape or no tape is irrelevant for dilucot, you just need to finish however you started.
If you want to use the BBW side. I would set the bevel on the Coticule side with slurry, then rinse everything and work up a slurry on the BBW side to refine through using dilutions and possibly finish the edge. More than likely you won't hit the keenness you want on the BBW side at which point you can rinse everything for clean water laps on the Coticule side.
Setting a bevel on BBW would be the last thing in the world I'd attempt. Unless of course your BBW is astonishingly fast or something.
How fast is your LPB? I've had a few, one could set a bevel in 10-15 minutes. Others were way slower.
You have a Carbo 118 right?
Me - I'd Lap it to about 600x or finer - and start the bevel-set on that.
Then clean up with the SS 1k. Once the scratch pattern from the Carbo is gone - time to move forward.
Or just use the 1k SS - shouldn't take too long. They're slower than some other 1k stones but they work fine.
Of course - you can go start to finish on the Coti too.
Depends on what you're feeling like doing I think.
How fast is your LPB? I've had a few, one could set a bevel in 10-15 minutes. Others were way slower.
You have a Carbo 118 right?
Me - I'd Lap it to about 600x or finer - and start the bevel-set on that.
Then clean up with the SS 1k. Once the scratch pattern from the Carbo is gone - time to move forward.
Or just use the 1k SS - shouldn't take too long. They're slower than some other 1k stones but they work fine.
Of course - you can go start to finish on the Coti too.
Depends on what you're feeling like doing I think.
- Thread starter
- #8
My LPB is really fast. No joke, once bevel set I'm looking at maybe 5 minutes of honing if I want to finish on it. It's a neat little stone. A lot harder than I expected of a typical Coti.
Yeah the Carbo 118 would probably be my go to bevel setter. I'd definitely have to lap it finer to get to 600 as of right now it's lapped with a DMT 325. The SS is really slow in my opinion. Basically the bevel is fine with just a little more fine tuning needed on the toe and heel. Just not hitting it quite enough. The only advantage I would see to using the Coti is that it's a thinner stone for the smiling blade so I'd have to focus more on my stroke. For some reason I have trouble torquing the blade enough on the bigger stones without feeling like i'm using way too much pressure. The SS's are about as easy as it gets for straight full hollow blades. Those Sheffields need a lot more care though, and I tend to buy a full or near wedge Sheffield before a full hollow.
Yeah the Carbo 118 would probably be my go to bevel setter. I'd definitely have to lap it finer to get to 600 as of right now it's lapped with a DMT 325. The SS is really slow in my opinion. Basically the bevel is fine with just a little more fine tuning needed on the toe and heel. Just not hitting it quite enough. The only advantage I would see to using the Coti is that it's a thinner stone for the smiling blade so I'd have to focus more on my stroke. For some reason I have trouble torquing the blade enough on the bigger stones without feeling like i'm using way too much pressure. The SS's are about as easy as it gets for straight full hollow blades. Those Sheffields need a lot more care though, and I tend to buy a full or near wedge Sheffield before a full hollow.
Cut the bevel on the yellow and dilute out to a light a light slurry . Just before going water only switch the Thuringian with a slurry and dilute it out to finish on about 30 water only.
- Thread starter
- #10
Thanks for all the help!
So it seems to me the BBW side is really just a secondary option? Not really meant to be honed on but capable of sharpening a blade just not finishing? The transition to natural stones has a learning curve but I really enjoy learning these little nuances in technique when using the different stones.
Gamma that Thuri really is as easy as it gets. Puts on a super crisp edge. I can't wait to match it up to the bout stone and see how different the shaves are. I think I enjoy honing as much as I do shaving.
So it seems to me the BBW side is really just a secondary option? Not really meant to be honed on but capable of sharpening a blade just not finishing? The transition to natural stones has a learning curve but I really enjoy learning these little nuances in technique when using the different stones.
Gamma that Thuri really is as easy as it gets. Puts on a super crisp edge. I can't wait to match it up to the bout stone and see how different the shaves are. I think I enjoy honing as much as I do shaving.
The BBW is a stone of its own. Learn the coticule first and experiment with the BBW later. Use the coticule for razors and the BBW for knives even. It can be used just as a coticule and shaved from even although there are probably better options at your disposal.
- Thread starter
- #12
haha yeah my girlfriend thinks I've become a geologist with the stones i've purchased recently. Gotta love tax season (when I don't have to pay)!
I couldn't help myself and even picked up a little 5"x1" celebrated water razor hone. It's in a box with a label on the inside cover. Arriving today. Can't wait to see the color. Hoping it's legit.
I couldn't help myself and even picked up a little 5"x1" celebrated water razor hone. It's in a box with a label on the inside cover. Arriving today. Can't wait to see the color. Hoping it's legit.
HAHA Yeah the HAD hits us all.
