Coticule width and honing

[kayvee]

Gents,

In recent days I’ve been trying to figure out how to hone on a vintage coticule. I think I’m getting close in terms of the edge sharpness after starting with Shapton 1500 bevel set. However, it is clear that the edge is not flat after I’m done. I’m unsure how else to describe what I find. The coti is only 36mm wide and I think I may be changing pressure across the blade (guessing here) and the edge is not flat.

In eyeballing the edge after finishing on the coti, something felt off and I took it to my surgical black (3inch wide) and it confirmed my suspicion oil running under, not riding up the bevel etc. I fixed the edge on the black ark and eyeballing the edge felt much better - straight, flat. I tested the edge, it’s honed to my previous standards.

Now my question, what are some things to keep in mind or techniques to hone on a smaller width stone? For context, I have some two inch stones (including my translucent ark) that I’ve been able to use successfully. I’m just having problems with these ~1.25 stones

 

[David]

Now my question, what are some things to keep in mind or techniques to hone on a smaller width stone?

Most of it is just practice and muscle memory. You can turn the blade on a 45 degree to the stone to get a larger contact point, which usually gives you a bit more control. Honing in hand IMO gives you more control also on the smaller stones. Here’s a video that I made years ago when another member asked a similar question.

 

[Empire straights]

David is right, it's just practice and muscle memory. You can use a knife to practice circles on your stone so you build muscle memory to keep that constant and even pressure. Make sure your stone is flat. Hitting the bevel with a Sharpie to see where your contact points are might help too.

 

[Wid]

Using circles with most of the honing then switch to x strokes to finish. It does take some getting used to. No my preferred size stone.

 

[psfred]

The trick is to pay close attention to how much time per stroke you are putting on each part of the edge. It's easy to spend more time on the middle than the ends (I have this problem with knives as well, since they are almost always much longer that the stone width).

Practice x-strokes starting at the heel and going to the toe in one movement as the razor travels down the stone, and make sure you are not using more pressure in the middle! Very tempting to do that, and you get a frown every time.

The effect will be much worse if you are using slurry since it cuts faster -- I'd suggest just using the coticule for final finishing until you get the hang of honing on a narrow stone since you wont' remove much metal that way. Not a true "coticule edge" maybe, but better than a frowning razor....

I have one a little wider I'm playing with, hard as all getout, so I'll see what I can do.

One strong advantage is that when you figure it out, slightly warped razors will hone up very nicely with a lot less effort by controlling the pressure.

 

[kayvee]

No my preferred size stone

No kidding. It appears that most vintage stones I’ve seen are similar. Maybe I haven’t looked enough.

One question. Should I try using less pressure than on synthetics? Same? More?

 

[Herrenberg]

No kidding. It appears that most vintage stones I’ve seen are similar. Maybe I haven’t looked enough.

One question. Should I try using less pressure than on synthetics? Same? More?

That's a fun question. A bit more, I think. Also I tend to torque a bit more on a coticule, which is some sort of instinctive response to its wet slipperiness in contrast to the grip of synthetics.

 

[life2short1971]

No kidding. It appears that most vintage stones I’ve seen are similar. Maybe I haven’t looked enough.

One question. Should I try using less pressure than on synthetics? Same? More?

Look more you'll find wider stones but they bring more money as you go wider vs longer.

Every coticle is different and we all hone just a little different from each other so what works for one may not work for you but try lighter or a tad more more pressure but don't torque the blade like a motorcycle throttle for more pressure use your fingers and apply a light pressure right at the bevel itself if needed. Torquing makes the edge curl and you don't want that.

 

[Wid]

No kidding. It appears that most vintage stones I’ve seen are similar. Maybe I haven’t looked enough.

One question. Should I try using less pressure than on synthetics? Same? More?

For most of the honing with a coticule I use heavier pressure than when using a synthetic stone. When in the very end for finishing I lighten up quite a bit.

 

[ArtVandelay123]

Very good advice has been given.
I enjoy honing on narrower stones the most, but also on short stones.
As previously mentioned I also work a lot of halfstrokes and circles.

One thing I do when honing is using my pinky to balance the scales in order to prevent the razor from tilting.

 

[Frank Shaves]

If the bevel catches the stone's edge, chamfer the edges of the stone. I like to chamfer hand holding sandpaper to round the edge - like 400 and 240 grit wet/dry. When I chamfer using a diamond plate, the chamfered edges tend to be straighter.

 

[Gamma]

Excessive localized pressure can cause uneven wear. A frowning edge is a common result from this.
Paying closer attention is the only solution.

Long ago, the popularity of narrow stones was probably based more on cost differences than anything else.
I am happier with 45mm and wider stones. I can use smaller, thinner, etc, sure. But I tend to gravitate to doing things I want to do rather than doing something just because I can.

 

[Bayamontate]

Smaller hones mean more strokes (work) to achieve the desired goal. I used to work with small Thuris, Eschers and Coticules in the past and they do the job, they just take longer to get there. Everything I use now is 8x3ish only because I can easily execute a variety of strokes. That said, thin hones for smiley near and true wedges do make life easier especially on razors with wonky grinds.

 

[Empire straights]

Very good advice has been given.
I enjoy honing on narrower stones the most, but also on short stones.
As previously mentioned I also work a lot of halfstrokes and circles.

One thing I do when honing is using my pinky to balance the scales in order to prevent the razor from tilting.

Small, narrow stones are my favorite because they are usually an absolute perfect cut of whatever it is. Small means more strokes but I've had better luck finding very fast and fine stones in smaller sizes than larger.

 

[JPO]

I don't mind narrow smaller stones, but my preferred size is 70 mm ×130(150).
They can be used on the bench, or in hand without any issues.

 

[rhgg2]

Wider than 70 I find slightly annoying. There's always a bit of slurry ends up on the far side where I can't reach it. 60 is about perfect for me.

 

[bmiller3230]

A narrow stone like that works. Try to keep as much of the spine and edge on the stone as possible when doing 1/2 strokes. Or if doing circles be sure to keep as flat and even pressure as possible up and down the blade. X-strokes should be as easy.

The advantage of the narrower hones is that they are easier to concentrate on an area of the blade that might need extra work, without over working the sections that are solid