only want to buy one grinder - what do you suggest?

nothing over $2K, thats just my arbitrary limit...

i don't ever want to have to upgrade, but i also don't want to pay for extra features i won't really need.. i don't want to complain about wasted grinds, static, breaking of plastic or flimsy parts,

home use only, i will use it at least twice a day on average over the week, doubles.. i will be using less than week old roasts.

what is something people complain about that really isn't an issue or happens to most, if not all grinders.

i am trying to separate out real issues versus the ones that people describe, but don't really really find important, but comment on..

why do i want big or small conical vs big or small flat vs hybrid burrs?

is the difference between titan and others really that significant if the super small, but existent variations in bean age and water amount mess with the pull? (does that make sense?)

why do i care if it takes a minute to grind vs 30 seconds? or whatever the difference is in slow vs faster. as long as it's not over 15, right? i'm not in a rush and if i was, i'd not make anything to begin with if a minute is too long.

i love super dark chocolate and i love citrus

what am i looking for?

i've spent full days reading about the various grinders from $100 to way over my limit and no closer to a decision on why i should or should not buy one or the other.

right now my dog chews the beans, i scoop them out of his mouth, tamp and pull in a semi-automatic ... tastes pretty decent.. j/k

If you will ONLY be grinding for espresso brewing.

Mazzer Robur Electronic - hands down, if you have the room. If you don't have the room for one.... MAKE the room, you'll never regret it


http://www.mazzer.com/scheda.asp?idprod=18

It weighs in @ 65 lbs so you need a pretty solid counter and a LOT of space above as it stands 28" tall (10" more than you have between a normal upper cabinet and your kitchen counter).

It is "THE" espresso grinder of choice with those who have a lot of $$$$ and a LOT of space

It does break your top limit by around $500 but sometimes you can find them for around what your top is set at if you look and wait patiently for a sale.

Just ask anyone who has bought one and uses it. There is NO upgrading after this level of grinder.

Compak K10 is the single best home use commercial espresso grinder that can be used for multiple or single dose. With simple mods you lose almost no coffee while single dosing and its grind quality is as good as anything else out there. Check out the coffee forums for details.

I have used a Robur, Compak K10, and even a Pharos - all are gonna get you to the same cup fron the 68mm burrs (Mazzer says 71mm but it is a difference in how they measure), but if you want electric and you want conical burr, then the value is with the Compak - cheaper than the Robur but still commercial grade.

I find myself choosing flat burr grinders more often than not - just a preference thing - and the K30 or Mazzer Major are commercial grade flat burr grinders that bring a lot to the table.

Getting a Pharos seems to be an issue and all the mods to make it a bit more robust is a bit much for me right now.. I want to get away from having to bang things around.

The Compak K10 sounds interesting.. i've seen a lot about that.. I'd love to go with the Robur, but i am kind of getting wanting to get my feet wet sooner rather than later...

What about a versalab? most i've found seem to be pretty happy with it as of late.

However what i find is that after i have bought something is when i start finding out more.. I am trying to avoid that with this thread, it may not be possible

I've been all over CG and H-B and at this point, it doesn't sound like there are that many choices..

The problem with decent grinders is they are so expensive that very few people, outside of those in the business, actually have any first hand experience with more than a few models. I've had 5 Baratza grinders (only 3 remain now) but only one Mazzer (super jolly) and at the price of good espresso grinders ($2k and up) it is highly unlikely that I will get any more first hand experience with anything other than what I own now.

I have been very satisfied with the super jolly I bought used for $345 and the $100 in modifications I have made to it.

Even if you wanted a NEW SJ electronic, you are talking no more than $1200 (street price delivered). If you don't think that the electronic dosing is worth the additional cost a hand doser model is under $1k delivered.

The Super Jolly has been more than acceptable for me and I am not looking to replace it with anything anytime soon.

Before and after the mods.

First pic is as bought (fresh out of the box) with the big commercial SJ hopper on it (next to a Baratza home grinder to give you an idea of size)



Second pic is after doser mods were finished with the short Mini hopper



All of the parts I used to modify the doser to time based delivery

global_dev said:

Getting a Pharos seems to be an issue and all the mods to make it a bit more robust is a bit much for me right now.. I want to get away from having to bang things around.

The Compak K10 sounds interesting.. i've seen a lot about that.. I'd love to go with the Robur, but i am kind of getting wanting to get my feet wet sooner rather than later...

What about a versalab? most i've found seem to be pretty happy with it as of late.

However what i find is that after i have bought something is when i start finding out more.. I am trying to avoid that with this thread, it may not be possible

I've been all over CG and H-B and at this point, it doesn't sound like there are that many choices..

Click to expand...

Never used a Versalab but they do have a following - a real "sleeper" is the Nuova Simonelli Mythos. Timed dosing even more precise than the K30 and burrs almost as big as the Major - quiet, fast, and a low profile too. It is super easy to use and grinds with the best of them.

What about a Ceado E7 ?

global_dev said:

What about a Ceado E7 ?

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Never used one, but 64mm burrs should put grind quality in the Super Jolly range, E10 with 83mm burrs should be similar to a Mazzer Major, and the E92 should be similar to the Compak K10 in grind quality. The features and electronics appear to be where the differences are.

Noone has answered yet, and i do see some concepts on the coffee boards, but why would i want conical over flat ? Why not hybrid ?

Conical VS flat is the same debate as Feather VS Gillette Black in the razor blade world.

Everyone is going to have their own opinion as everyone will have a different experience with both.

People have different tastes and preferences so every one will see, feel, and taste the same thing in a different way based on their past real world experiences.

In the realm of high end espresso grinders, there are no winners and losers. Any you choose will be acceptable. Any difference between them is only going to be in the imagination of the person talking about each one.

What might be great coffee to me could easily be awful to someone else as what I like and enjoy cannot be the same as what everyone else on the planet likes and enjoys.

As a home user, why would i want time based grinding? I can get weight or even volume based... but i already stand over my current grinder btw is a capresso infinity that seems to be okay with fresh beans.

What about hg one? Seems to get great reviews.

Same burrs as K10 or Pharos, so basically the same cup (shot?) in the end - ascetics as well as electric vs manual are the main variables here. I have only seen photos but like it too.

global_dev said:

As a home user, why would i want time based grinding? I can get weight or even volume based... but i already stand over my current grinder btw is a capresso infinity that seems to be okay with fresh beans.

Click to expand...

I use time based as a convenience only. I can put the portafilter on the forks. Push either the single or double dose buttons and walk away. Finished dose is within .2 grams time after time.

Sure I could manually turn the grinder on and off form the power switch and try to gauge how much is going into the portafilter "by eyeball" but why? I can have .2 gram accuracy with no effort at all on my part other than making sure the portafilter is on the forks under the funnel to catch the dose and remembering to push the button on the timer.

Sure I have to calibrate the time when I change beans but I only have to do this once every 10-14 days.

You don't need an elaborate, purpose built, grinder timer, a re-purposed darkroom timer will work just as well.

global_dev said:

As a home user, why would i want time based grinding? I can get weight or even volume based... but i already stand over my current grinder btw is a capresso infinity that seems to be okay with fresh beans.

Click to expand...

I cannot give anyone well grounded feedback, since I a home user who does not have a weight or time based grinder to use, but I have never felt that either type of grinder would be that useful. Though I would prefer a weight based grinder over a time based grinder in order to get better precision. So I do find grinders like the Vario-W appealing.

I am not making coffee at home every day, and I don't want to leave beans sitting in the throat of the grinder for days, so even with a time/weight based grinder I would only use it for making some cups or end up throwing out a little partially ground coffee that has been sitting for days. When using whole beans I have always measured the beans by volume or weight before dumping into the hopper, which I carried over from my first whirly blade grinder where that approach is mandatory. If I did not have to premeasure coffee beans, the overall coffee making process would be easier, but it would also be more difficult to switch between beans once the hopper gets loaded.

If I were at home making coffee everyday, my opinion would probably be different, as I could keep the grinder feed with enough fresh beans that residual coffee would matter less.

I agree.. i want to minimize the bean sitting... today i pulled some consecutive shots for some friends, the most in a row i've made - about 6 and then in the am i had made 2-3, so quite busy for me... what a hassle doing it for others AND i wanted to drink their shots, they all came out beautifully. But that will be the most i'll make until next weekend at least.


the 'stale' beans in the path were quite obvious today when i cleaned the infinity. It was shocking and just cleaned it a couple weeks ago.

Unfortunately, i have neither time to shave or make coffee in the AM mon-thurs, so its a 6-8pm double on those days maybe since soccer gets in way on tues-thurs.fri-sun is way different.

global_dev said:

what is something people complain about that really isn't an issue or happens to most, if not all grinders.

i am trying to separate out real issues versus the ones that people describe, but don't really really find important, but comment on..

Click to expand...

Issues that matter to you aren't "real" issues while issues that don't matter to you are "fake" issues. The importance of the different concerns differs from person to person so you really have to tell us what it is that matters to you. What do you like and dislike about the grinders you've used and where are you looking to go with a future grinder?

global_dev said:

i don't want to complain about wasted grinds, static, breaking of plastic or flimsy parts

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...and how do you prioritize your concerns?

I mean, a Robur can definitely be a final grinder and you won't complain about broken plastic or flimsy parts. However, it will have significant retention. You have to tell us where you're willing to compromise. There are grinders with less retention but, like any comparison of options, there are pros and cons with each choice. If you place retention at the top of your list the HG One is difficult to beat but it has an obvious potential drawback if you're not up for hand cranking.

global_dev said:

why do i want big or small conical vs big or small flat vs hybrid burrs?

Click to expand...

Taste/preference is generally the biggest reason. Another area where you have to tell us. Have you tried espresso produced by the options?

global_dev said:

why do i care if it takes a minute to grind vs 30 seconds? or whatever the difference is in slow vs faster.

Click to expand...

We can't tell you. I prefer faster. My Super Jolly grinds enough for a double in about 6 seconds. I'm not going back to the days of 30 seconds for a double like it was with the Rocky I had long ago. If you have no preference then don't use it as a selection criterion.

global_dev said:

i've spent full days reading about the various grinders from $100 to way over my limit and no closer to a decision on why i should or should not buy one or the other.

Click to expand...

It's really like any other topic. You just have to know what you want and how that translates into what to look for to help narrow down the choices. Going at it the other way will always be overwhelming and inefficient. I'd just advise that you're unlikely to find a master-of-all grinder at any price point. Even the most expensive grinders require compromises in one or more areas. Nothing is really every 100% benefit and 0% drawback.

Thanks all, I had my priorities in my mind but I was asking sincerely not rhetorically.

I really wanted low retention first as I wouldn't be pulling more than 2-3 shots a day. I didn't want to fiddle with chutes and scraping and stale grind.

Most of the grinders mentioned above look awesome.

I guess in the end I wanted something like the versalab or hg one or pharos but the pharos wasn't available and kind of looks like a PITA without the mods and dogs, the versalab looks like a winner but in the end I opted for a hg-one.

Got it today and what a solid piece of kit. Set it up & ground about 6 doubles of older coffee and what difference. It made a huge difference from what I can already see in use.

Time to get some fresh roast.

Thanks for all the help everyone.