Which steel - carbon or stainless?

[FaPat5]

Hi, I haven't posted in the straight razor section since I got my Kropp razor earlier this year, but now I have a question, to which I am struggeling to find an answer. I am considering putting a Dovo razor on my Christmas list for this year, so I don't have to pay for it (I realise Christmas is a little away, but time seems to fly, so I'm thinking about it now already). Anyway, I have seen many nice ones, and really like this one: http://www.executive-shaving.co.uk/shaving/straight-razors/straight-shaving-razor-612680red.php

I have also seen some nice ones in stainless steel, and although I really do prefer this one to the others I have seen, I was wondering, these days, which is really better. Carbon or stainless? I have seen many websites that state that one should forget the stainless steel razors, and only go for carbon steel, but is this still true for modern razors? Also, on the above site, the stainless Dovo razors seem more expensive than the carbon steel ones. Does that mean that stainless is perhaps preferred? surely if stainless was no good they would be the cheap examples, shouldn't they?

I hope someone can give me a definite answer on this, as I just can't seem to find a proper concise answer to this problem.

 

[Suzuki]

Carbon vs. stainless is largely a matter of personal preference.

Stainless is a little "harder" than carbon, so it takes a little more work to sharpen, but tends to hold its edge a little longer - I'm no expert and I do note this with my razors.

Stainless is obviously less prone to rusting/staining, but if you take care of your carbon razors, there should be no problem.

I do notice that my stainless razors feel different than my carbon razors - its hard to describe - not better or worse, just different. Stainless tends to be a little stiffer than carbon, which I think helps them perform like a heavier razor - for example, my stainless 5/6 cuts like my 6/8 carbon razors.

Adding to this is the fact that you can find some very stiff carbon razors - for example, my Wacker carbon razor sharpens and feels like my stainless razors.

So, while there may be metalurgical reasons why stainless is different (other than being resistant to corrosion) from carbon, there is no definite answer as to whether one is better than the other, as this is entirely a matter of personal preference.

In terms of price, you can get a nice 5/8 stainless Dovo for about the same price as the razor you linked to:

http://www.executive-shaving.co.uk/shaving/dovo-of-solingen/dovo-straight-razor-415815.php

This is a great razor - and there is a good review in the review section - the review is on the razor with the real mother of pearl scales, but the blade (which is all that counts from a functional perspective) is exactly the same as the one with the plastic handles.

 

[FaPat5]

Thanks for your reply, I really like that razor. With regard to price of stainless razors, if you look at their index of straight razors, the stainless ones are at the top, and are really expensive. But the first carbon was much further down.

What i will say is the razor which I gave the link to has a nicer looking blade than the other stainless one.

 

[Suzuki]

The stainless razors towards the top are more expensive because they have fancier scales - the first stainless razor listed has the real MOP scales.

I'm pretty utilitarian in my approach - I don't care for a lot of gold wash, scale work, blade decoration, or really fancy scales. All I really care about is how well the razor shaves.

The fact that a razor has a pretty blade means absolutely nothing in terms of shaving quality. All it means is that you're paying more for the razor due to the additional work done to tart up the blade.

Again, this is a matter of personal preference and there are lots of guys who like fancy blades - just make sure you chose a razor for its shaving qualities first and its looks second.

This stainless razor is probably a little more along the lines you're looking for - bone handles with some inlay and some decoration on the spine of the blade - similar price to the one you linked to:

http://www.executive-shaving.co.uk/shaving/dovo-of-solingen/dovo-straight-razor-1885.php

This carbon Dovo has gotten excellent reviews by several folks on this and other boards (and can be found in 6/8) and is a nice balance between form and functio - its also a screaming good deal:

http://www.executive-shaving.co.uk/shaving/dovo-of-solingen/dovo-straight-razor-1516.php

The razor you linked to, as well as the one's I've linked to are all good razors - its just a matter of what you want and what you want to pay for (i.e., are you looking for a good shaving razor or a good shaving razor that has the look you're going for).

You initially asked about the difference between carbon and stainless and you're going to have a hard time finding a stainless blade that's been decorated/tarted up like the razor you linked to.

 

[FaPat5]

Well, its not that nice blades mean more to me than shaving quality, because that's just stupid. But, I had always head good things of Dovo, and so just assumed they would be quite good overall. Would you say the one I linked to was a good razor, or do you think it is not that good? At the end of the day, it is something that has to shave my face, not rip it apart.

Would a stainless steel razor be more or less likely to cause nics or cuts or however they are known?

 

[Suzuki]

The Dovo Bismark is supposed to be a fine razor - I don't have one, but have heard generally good comments. If you want more information about this specific model, I would post a thread specifically asking for comments on the model you're interested in.

The Dovo Special (the one with the mock tortoise scale) has gotten great reviews - see the review section - in fact, when Joel was looking for a razor to use for the purpose of testing different hones/stones/pastes, this was what he chose. As I said earlier, its also very well priced and can be had in 6/8 if that's what you're looking for.

I've got two Dovo's, a plain Dove Classic, which I'm not thrilled with as I think the spine is warped - I sent it out to be honed by a pro and its still not sharp in certain spots; the second is a NOS Fritz Bracht stainless 5/8 that uses a previous version of the blade in the less expensive stainless razor I posted a link to. This is a very good razor and the review of the new model in the review section is very good - probably one of the best bargains in a SS razor going.

If you want to try a SS razor and you don't have a problem going up to a 7/8, I would recommend that you snap this up:

http://www.shavingshop.com/index.php?item=126&ret=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shavingshop.com%2Findex.php%3Fpage%3D1%26sale%3Dyes

This is a very plain Friodur 7/8 stainless with plain plastic scales. While the scales are very blah, the blade is amazing (I have this blade) - the Friodurs are very highly regarded (see the reviews on this site). If you're using a 5/8 now, the 7/8 is a pretty big jump in size weight. You can always have a set of custom scales put on it if you want for a reasonable price (usually start at around $35 - $40 and go up from there).

If 7/8 is too big, I would go for the Dovo SS in either the 5/8 or 6/8 (the 6/8 with the bone handles has been reviewed as well).

As you may be aware, new razors are not shave-ready out of the box and must be honed before being used (depending on your level of experience, you may want to have this done professionally).

As for your question regading whether a SS razor would be more or less likely to cause nicks, the answer is no. Its beard prep (water, lather, soap, etc) , razor maintenance (honing and stropping) and shaving technique that causes nicks.

Hope this helps - if you have more questions, you should look around here or go over to straightrazorplace.com for more info.

 

[FaPat5]

Well, I would prefer something not bigger than a 6/8. I still do like the Bismark model, not just because it looks fancy, but I like the way the blade starts, it looks like it could be quite comfortable to hold. Also, I don't know if my carborundum (or however you spell it again, I don't have it to hand at the moment) hone may perhaps make honing a stainless a little difficult, as it seems to be quite fine, and you did say they take more effort to sharpen. But I will maybe open a thread here tomorrow, asking for some info on the Bismark model. Thanks very much for your help.

 

[Daedalus]

My experience wth Dovo razors in both carbon and stainless has been excellent. I don't think you could go wrong either way. Even the very plain "Bismarck Super" with black plastic scales is a great shaver. Dovo does some nice ornamentation on the blades. It looks like the model you have chosen is one of their fancier offerings.

 

[jnich67]

You're going to end up with a bit of both so go with the one that's caught your eye!!

Jordan

 

[FaPat5]

How do you mean?

 

[Doc4]

Some good advice there already ... both carbon and stainless can be equally good, just ... different. So yeah, personal preference. IMHO, stainless is 'harder' ... harder to hone to perfect sharpness, and harder to wear down the sharpness with regular use ... so my thinking is stainless is better suited for someone who has his honing down pat, or someone who will be sending his razor to a honemeister when needed. YMMV.

What made you decide on DOVO? They are good razors, certainly, but the general impression is that TI are better shavers. You may want to look at the TI razors and see if one takes your fancy??

(Now you need 4 razors ... a DOVO and TI stainless, and a DOVO and TI carbon ... I won't mention Damascus steel ... )

 

[jnich67]

How do you mean?

I mean if you're like most of us, you'll end up with a number of carbon steel razors (they're far more common) as well as several stainless models.

Very few of us can stop after only two razors. See post above

Jordan

 

[ouch]

Stainless is a little "harder" than carbon, so it takes a little more work to sharpen, but tends to hold its edge a little longer - I'm no expert and I do note this with my razors.

I've heard this quoted time and again. I'm no expert on this matter, but from my experience with knives, most carbon steel knives are much harder than stainless steel. Stainless steel is usually hardened to 58-60 on the Rockwell scale, while you can routinely find carbon steel knives at rc 61-63. Very few stainless concoctions are this hard, with the exception of powdered steels, such as Cowry-X.

If stainless were harder than carbon, all of those sushi chefs (who spend more on their knives than anyone) would be using stainless.

 

[FaPat5]

Thanks for your replies, and @Doc4; Several reasons why I went for the Dovo. For a start, part of Dovo is Merkur, who make some wicked DE razors, and also, I come from Germany, so of course, I look at the German stuff first. I don't know about the other ones, they are nice, but something drew me to that Dovo, and it certainly looks great. I was just hoping that someone would come who could confirm to me if they are any good.

 

[Doc4]

Thanks for your replies, and @Doc4; Several reasons why I went for the Dovo. For a start, part of Dovo is Merkur, who make some wicked DE razors, and also, I come from Germany, so of course, I look at the German stuff first. I don't know about the other ones, they are nice, but something drew me to that Dovo, and it certainly looks great. I was just hoping that someone would come who could confirm to me if they are any good.

Yes, the DOVOs are good. If you are drawn to them, then go for it. Afterwards, you can research the other German brands from the past and see what you want for your next razor. (Yes, there is always a 'next razor'!) Some really great razors have come out of Solingen.

 

[mparker762]

When honing, stainless "acts" harder than it really is because of its peculiar wear characteristics. It tends to hold its edge longer under typical use because of the improved corrosion resistance - the shaving environment is not particularly kind to your basic carbon steel. Both types of steel will get sharp enough for an effortless shave. Stainless takes a little longer to hone than carbon steel of similar hardness, but once you've got a reasonable amount of experience with stainless then this difference largely disappears. The trick is getting "a reasonable amount of experience" since there aren't as many stainless razors out there. Stainless does have its own quirks that you will need to adjust to.

I own stainless razors by Henckels, Dovo, Puma, and C-Mon, and IMO the Henckels Friodurs are the best of the lot.

 

[FaPat5]

Hmm, you all give me a lot to think about. I don't know, on one hand, the Bismarck looks great, and assuming it really is such a good razor, would be perfect. Then-again, the stainless razors may be quite nice to use, and would hold their egde longer, but they don't look so fancy. Although, I do like this one: http://www.executive-shaving.co.uk/shaving/dovo-of-solingen/dovo-straight-razor-1885.php which is stainless. But the Bismarck looks much better. I really don't know. I can't get both, I know that. I may go for the bismarck, with the red handle.

 

[Suzuki]

I've heard this quoted time and again. I'm no expert on this matter, but from my experience with knives, most carbon steel knives are much harder than stainless steel. Stainless steel is usually hardened to 58-60 on the Rockwell scale, while you can routinely find carbon steel knives at rc 61-63. Very few stainless concoctions are this hard, with the exception of powdered steels, such as Cowry-X.

Ouch - thanks for clearing this up - I'm certainly no expert.

When honing, stainless "acts" harder than it really is because of its peculiar wear characteristics. It tends to hold its edge longer under typical use because of the improved corrosion resistance - the shaving environment is not particularly kind to your basic carbon steel. Both types of steel will get sharp enough for an effortless shave. Stainless takes a little longer to hone than carbon steel of similar hardness, but once you've got a reasonable amount of experience with stainless then this difference largely disappears. The trick is getting "a reasonable amount of experience" since there aren't as many stainless razors out there. Stainless does have its own quirks that you will need to adjust to.

I own stainless razors by Henckels, Dovo, Puma, and C-Mon, and IMO the Henckels Friodurs are the best of the lot.

I agree with this - both in terms of SS razors not being that much harder to sharpen - just takes a little longer, exact same technique, sharpening tools and that the Friodurs are great razors.

 

[Lynn]

Stainless razors are really not much harder to hone. Usually a couple more polishing strokes is all that is needed. They also usually take well to .5 diamond paste too. The Dovo stainless shave is really comparable to the Dovo carbon shave. I have really not noticed any difference over the years.

Have fun.

Lynn

 

[kbuzbee]

(Now you need 4 razors ... a DOVO and TI stainless, and a DOVO and TI carbon ... I won't mention Damascus steel ... )

I love my TIs but I've never seen a stainless one. Are you sure about that? Do you have a link??

Ken