What is up with the insane prices of Charcoal Goods Razors?

[Holyzeus]

@Arsene_Wenger1 @salatta

The individual in the ads is not the flipper in this case. He is just trying to recoup the money he paid for and got screwed over by the original flipper!! The guy that started off this whole debacle was a guy from Canada named AlanH and was barred from the forum he sold the razor on because of his dishonesty. I don't blame this guy for trying to get his money back but the wording of the ad is what got him to buy it originally and maybe he should've went about it differently because someone is gonna get screwed over just like he did...

And as @Fedsbackhand mentioned, the razor isn't even close to the the razor Brian made and sold because of what AlanH did to the razor much the same as a few Paradigm razors he polished and sold over there on the other forum!!

He wasn’t barred, he got so much grief and rightly so that he left.
I know he wasn’t barred because he’s been posting recently.
Now, the current seller is just trying to recoup his losses as far as I can make out. The issue for me is, is he being not entirely truthful in his eBay ad.

 

[BigJ]

Yes, I know.

Too bad it was polished and engraved. I still say he's fishing.

+1! Yes, indeed! But I am certainly running in the other direction!!

 

[zifnab]

Charcoal Goods was a well known brand in the wetshaving industry. CG's razors were worth their prices when they were available from the official website. I was watching the CG razors being offered on ebay and multiple CG razors have been offered in the last few months. The latest one is being offered at a whopping 1750 dollars! (check the image that I attached). This is not a one-off case. I remember two other CG razors being available for sale last month with one being offered around 600, while the other was around 800 bucks.

This was not the first time a well known and out of production razor was overpriced. Some of you may recall the an R41 2011 version was being offered for 600 dollars on ebay. I know CG razors are highly rated. But are they worth more than double the prices when they were in production?

View attachment 1766457

I bought WCS Hyperion, that's a Charcoal Goods designed razor, both the head and handle were designed by CG.

It's my favorite razor right now, it's fantastic.

 

[Dtownvino]

He wasn’t barred, he got so much grief and rightly so that he left.
I know he wasn’t barred because he’s been posting recently.
Now, the current seller is just trying to recoup his losses as far as I can make out. The issue for me is, is he being not entirely truthful in his eBay ad.

6 month ban, he is out of jail now.

 

[muzichead]

But it raises more questions. As others like @Dtownvino & @Fedsbackhand have stated, this razor may not be one of the originals that Brian made.

The razor and handle are actual CG products that Brian made Gen 1 Level 1!! The problem is that the Gen 1 Level 1 was released with a Bishop handle and not a Maze handle, finish wasn't polished, base plate was never engraved as presented...

The razor was sold to him with basically the same exact description as he has in his ad. He got duped by the original seller but he paid via PP F&F so had absolutely no recourse in getting his money back and the original seller after a very public back and forth was given a 6 month ban which recently expired so he is now posting again on that forum!!

John is just trying to recoup his money I believe is all he's trying to do but I'm afraid it will probably not turn out well for him selling it on Ebay and someone finds out after it isn't "original" but at least the ad does point out the handle isn't original and plated by someone other than Brian so he has that going for him...

 

[muzichead]

Why would one ice in business, or buy and sell for loss?

Is english your native language? Please explain why one would ice in business?

 

[DesertIguana]

Is english your native language? Please explain why one would ice in business?

Well maybe your are not bright? So to make the answer simple, why would one be in business, if not to operate in BLACK showing profit.

Love those who criticize those who buy low, sell high, and call the chance takers flippers. We all know the brilliant businessman from Nebraska Warren Buffet. Hearing of hoe he made killing on this and that in business.

MSM and Business Magazine do not tell you about the thing Buffet lost money on. Most successful business persons do not hit a home run on every deal. They like Babe Ruth do strike out sometimes when at bat, but we choose only to recall Babe's Home Run Record. The Baseball record book also have record of the time Bady went to bat, and did strike out.

 

[BradWorld]

Why were Charcoal Good Razor so great, and if they were grail.

Incredibly cool and artistic design. Highly engineered shave dynamics. Tons of mojo. That why they are so great. Even with all the higher end razors out there now, the CG Gen 1 and 2 razors are still at the top tier of shave quality. In my opinion, the CG shave is only bested by the Wolfman shave. And even so, I will often enjoy my CG razors more than Wolfman at times.

Holy grail? I am not so sure I believe in that any more. I used to chase that perfect shaving razor. Now, I just shave with what puts a smile on my face.

 

[DesertIguana]

Incredibly cool and artistic design. Highly engineered shave dynamics. Tons of mojo. That why they are so great. Even with all the higher end razors out there now, the CG Gen 1 and 2 razors are still at the top tier of shave quality. In my opinion, the CG shave is only bested by the Wolfman shave. And even so, I will often enjoy my CG razors more than Wolfman at times.

Holy grail? I am not so sure I believe in that any more. I used to chase that perfect shaving razor. Now, I just shave with what puts a smile on my face.

Well sounds like the Charcol Goods was great Razor, sad they stopped being made.

Understand why people are paying top dollar for the ones that go up for sale.

Thank for the info.

 

[Dtownvino]

This is an unused copper bishop handle (still new). This is what should be on this razor. The Maze handle came later and none of the original 10 came with anything other than the bishop.

 

[Fiddler]

The razor was sold to him with basically the same exact description as he has in his ad. He got duped by the original seller but he paid via PP F&F so had absolutely no recourse in getting his money back

Wow...does this mean that the current seller is now employing the same deception that he fell for earlier?

Maybe I am misunderstanding the situation but if so, that's quite something.

 

[muzichead]

Wow...does this mean that the current seller is now employing the same deception that he fell for earlier?

Maybe I am misunderstanding the situation but if so, that's quite something.

If you go and read his ad he has pointed out in it that this isn't as first sold and explains why... He's completely on the up & up and just trying to recoup his funds or as close as he can selling the razor.

 

[Fiddler]

Ok, understood.
Can someone post the URL to his Ebay listing here?

I think I have seen this guy's posts...Churchill La Femme is what he goes by.
He really made a huge scene back then, didn't he?
Feel his frustration but this is a caveat emptor kinda situation.

 

[rasoirdangereux]

Ok, understood.
Can someone post the URL to his Ebay listing here?

I think I have seen this guy's posts...Churchill La Femme is what he goes by.
He really made a huge scene back then, didn't he?
Feel his frustration but this is a caveat emptor kinda situation.

I think posting active ebay listing here is prohibited.

 

[muzichead]

Ok, understood.
Can someone post the URL to his Ebay listing here?

I think I have seen this guy's posts...Churchill La Femme is what he goes by.
He really made a huge scene back then, didn't he?
Feel his frustration but this is a caveat emptor kinda situation.

The link is in post #5...

He had the right to put up the rucus that he did considering AlanH basically lied to everyone about the razor and then someone comes along and authenticates it and you find out it's not fully authentic, I certainly know I would!! That guy would be driven from every shave forum out there if it had been me, but in the end we all learned a very important lesson from all of it...."PayPal F&F should never be used to pay for goods, ever"... If he'd used goods and services this and other threads about it would never have happened and he'd have his money back!!

 

[Fiddler]

He had the right to put up the rucus that he did considering AlanH basically lied to everyone about the razor and then someone comes along and authenticates it and you find out it's not fully authentic

I fully support his dude's right to kick up a loud fuss...but at the end of the day it falls
to the buyer to perform all due diligence, especially when using an unsecured payment
method. This does not excuse, in any way, the swindler who conned him.

Poor Churchill is never going to get that price and, frankly, I cannot believe he paid that
for a very ordinary razor, IMO. There are 17 guys watching that listing just to see how it
pans out, LMAO!

I would have taken one look at that razor and said to AlanH: hey, I don't recall Charcoal
Goods ever polishing their razors to that degree of shine....has this been tinkered with...and
if it has been modified...then it is not a collector's piece, is it? Then I would have offered
him $200 (but only because the brand has been retired).

 

[Stikeyoda]

This is an idea that is probably not healthy for me to be aware of.

I'll help you out -

Setting up the machinery to duplicate an existing 316L stainless steel razor involves several factors, making it difficult to give a precise cost estimate without more details. However, I can provide a general range and break down the main cost components to help you understand the ballpark figure:


Main Cost Components:

• Machine type:
  • CNC milling machine: More expensive but offers higher precision and automation, potentially reducing labor costs in the long run. Expect costs to range from $10,000 to $50,000+ depending on features and brand.
  • Manual milling machine: More affordable, typically starting around $2,000 to $10,000, but requires skilled manual labor and may not achieve the same level of precision as CNC.
• Tooling:
  • End mills: Specialized cutting tools for milling stainless steel can range from $50 to $200+ per piece, depending on size and material. You'll likely need several different end mills for various aspects of the razor.
  • Jigs and fixtures: These hold the razor in place during machining and ensure accuracy. Costs can vary depending on complexity but expect to spend $100 to $500+ per fixture.
• Material:
  • 316L stainless steel is readily available but can be more expensive than other steels. Expect to pay around $50 to $100 per pound, and you'll likely need several pounds depending on the razor size and complexity.
• Setup and training:
  • CNC machines require programming and knowledge of CAM software. If you're not familiar, factor in training costs or hire a machinist for setup and initial runs. Manual milling also requires practice and skill development.

General Cost Range:


Based on these factors, the total setup cost for duplicating a 316L stainless steel razor could range anywhere from $5,000 to $20,000+. This is just an estimate, and the actual cost could be higher or lower depending on the specific machinery, tooling, and the needed skill level.

 

[abies]

I'll help you out -

Setting up the machinery to duplicate an existing 316L stainless steel razor involves several factors, making it difficult to give a precise cost estimate without more details. However, I can provide a general range and break down the main cost components to help you understand the ballpark figure:


Main Cost Components:

• Machine type:
  • CNC milling machine: More expensive but offers higher precision and automation, potentially reducing labor costs in the long run. Expect costs to range from $10,000 to $50,000+ depending on features and brand.
  • Manual milling machine: More affordable, typically starting around $2,000 to $10,000, but requires skilled manual labor and may not achieve the same level of precision as CNC.
• Tooling:
  • End mills: Specialized cutting tools for milling stainless steel can range from $50 to $200+ per piece, depending on size and material. You'll likely need several different end mills for various aspects of the razor.
  • Jigs and fixtures: These hold the razor in place during machining and ensure accuracy. Costs can vary depending on complexity but expect to spend $100 to $500+ per fixture.
• Material:
  • 316L stainless steel is readily available but can be more expensive than other steels. Expect to pay around $50 to $100 per pound, and you'll likely need several pounds depending on the razor size and complexity.
• Setup and training:
  • CNC machines require programming and knowledge of CAM software. If you're not familiar, factor in training costs or hire a machinist for setup and initial runs. Manual milling also requires practice and skill development.

General Cost Range:


Based on these factors, the total setup cost for duplicating a 316L stainless steel razor could range anywhere from $5,000 to $20,000+. This is just an estimate, and the actual cost could be higher or lower depending on the specific machinery, tooling, and the needed skill level.

I think the usual situation is there's a machining operation already, so the costs are basically the labor and materials to produce a "prototype". Still not cheap, but not starting from scratch with no equipment.

 

[Stikeyoda]

I think the usual situation is there's a machining operation already, so the costs are basically the labor and materials to produce a "prototype". Still not cheap, but not starting from scratch with no equipment.

I was just quoting the costs to set up existing equipment. The tooling are things like the carbide bits then the actual machine set up instructions for each part times how many different angles to be cut. If you can CAD your design it's cheaper to CNC mill a prototype than manually turn parts, especially if you're making multiple parts that have to fit together, unless you aren't concerned about fit tolerances.

 

[blantyre]

The most expensive part would be figuring out the design and tolerances. Time and materials might cost $300-400 in a decent job shop.

I have a gen 1/2 in brass with both closed and open comb level 3 plates. One of the best razors out there which is why it stayed when I downsized from about 40 razors to 7 or 8 and stopped buying any more. I’d say it’s worth as much as a new top end Wolfman. I would not pay $1750 though, especially if it’s been messed up and probably doesn’t shave well anymore.