Supply (design/options/price) and Demand
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Two-piece razors? Any particular reason they aren't more popular?
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I think the clasification is aimed at how many parts the user normally has to fiddle with without using any tool or extra effort to disassemble it. That´s why the TTO´s are labeled as "One piece" even that they´re the most complex designs with the most parts involved. So, from this point of view, the lower parts on the clasification, the easier is for the user to use and track, pack and consider.
The Gillette "two part" design might just be one designer idea that took off, then Gillette dicovered that the 3 part it´s cheaper to manufacture but still they aimed to the 1 piece that came later and normally it was more expensive than their 3 part design ie. Superspeeds vs Tech...
Just my 2 cents
The Gillette "two part" design might just be one designer idea that took off, then Gillette dicovered that the 3 part it´s cheaper to manufacture but still they aimed to the 1 piece that came later and normally it was more expensive than their 3 part design ie. Superspeeds vs Tech...
Just my 2 cents
Curious why you feel there are no quality butterfly TTO 1 piece razors available? The experience of many B&Bers, including myself, has been different. While many of the current production TTOs are popularly priced they are also of good quality. This includes both regular and adjustable TTOs.
My two favorites, the Weishi 9306 Long Handle and recently purchased Razorock/Baili Adjust (Butterfly TTO and adjustable with a classic Gillette Slim/Super Adjustable type adjustment mechanism) are excellent razors and great values at under $15 each. Baili also offers good non-adjustable TTO butterfly razors at value price points. Same for Parker and there is the Feather Popular.
The Rockwell T2, with the same Gillette type adjustment mechanism, is well regarded by most users making it a great premium option at $100-$150 or higher for the stainless version.
Of course there is all the vintage Gillette product out there.
Agree there are some adjustable TTO's out there that rely on a center spring mechanism that causes blade alignment issues such as my Ming Shi 30002 and the Weishi adjustable (per others reviews).
Suspect that for the really high end, small production quantity, artisan razors, you may be right about manufacturing costs. Might not make sense to build the required assemble operation needed to put the components together for what may be just a few hundred razors with the result that most of these are three piece razors. Still we should not confuse price and quality as there are good quality TTO butterfly options available with the extra advantage in that most are very affordable.
TTO offers significant convenience when changing blades that many of us prefer. A basic non-adjustable TTO is actually a rather elegant and simple mechanism that has stood the test of decades of time given the success for the Gillette versions and many current production clones. Definitely sounds like a YMMV personal preference topic.
Where some current manufacturers run into trouble is with with TTO adjustable razors when they use a center spring mechanism that often causes blade alignment issues. Not surprisingly Gillette solved this in the 1950's when they patented their four bar adjustment mechanism that was used in razors such as the Slim and Super Adjustable that worked amazingly well and was the most popular DE razor back in the 1970's-1980's until superseded by cartridge systems. Currently the Razorock/Baili Adjust and Rockwell T2 are the only current production razors that use this mechanism and both work well.
King Gillette evolved away from the two-piece to the elegantly simple three-piece. With the Tech, Gillette achieved the pinnacle of design. There was nowhere to go from there. So along came the gimmicks: TTO, adjustability and, ultimately, carts.
For travel I think the three piece is a safer bet if you have to worry about your shaving kit being squashed or put under pressure. With three pieces they're all safe, with a two piece you usually have one section that has the possibility of getting broken; the head off of the handle piece. I have a two piece plastic Wilkinson Sword. I would use it for travel because it only cost me 5 Euro so even if it broke it's no great loss, but for something of value I would only pack a three piece unless it was in a hard case. For home use I like my Slim or Super Adjustable. I would like to add a Merkur 34 to my collection some day though.
The 'problem' the TTO was attempting to solve was people cutting themselves trying to load blades into their razors. Eventually they even produced blades that could be loaded into them without ever touching the blade at all.
I'm not a fan of adjustables, thinking they're the solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
But with all due respect, I don't think the TTO is a gimmick. I think it's a brilliant design, albeit a tad complicated perhaps. The point was to make blade changes faster and easier (hence the Super Speed moniker) in order to facilitate more blade sales. And I think they're superb shavers.
1 piece TTO would win if there were as many modern options. Much safer IMO. Since it’s slim pickings most of us are stuck with 3 piece if we want a quality razor. So there’s a lot of “chicken and egg” bias in the poll. Most have never handled a 2 piece, myself included. And it doesn’t look interesting either.I don't have an answer for you but here's a poll I ran several months ago.
And as you'll see, 2-piece razors finished last by a huge margin.
What's Your Favorite Type Of Safety Razor? - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/whats-your-favorite-type-of-safety-razor.639656/
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To be honest, there is always the 'first time', and in my years of air travel domestically and internationally, I don't recall ever breaking anything similar to a razor or electric toothbrush.
Anything can happen when traveling but, generally stuff in my bathroom 'kit' is pretty darn safe. To be honest, my biggest risk is theft.
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I keep hearing of people cutting themselves handling DE blades but, I don't get it for men of reasonable general health and manual dexterity.
Could it happen? Sure but, in my usage all I can think of is a serious lapse of judgment beyond something like a sleepy morning shave or similar event!
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While I would like to get a Rockwell T2 Adjustable, I am just not going to 'scratch the itch' to find out at its current price. I am a lot more likely to buy an Ares Lambda or maybe a Guerilla razor.
Pearl Flexi? Maybe. Or, perhaps a Merkur Progress at some point.
Hi Quaznoid,
Whether we agree or not I love most of your posts and am confused by what you said above on TTO and adjustable razors since the Gillette Super Adjustable "Black Beauty" is one of your favorites. In fact you've posted that you consider it their finest design. Some of your earlier posts on the topic:
1) Back on November 28th you posted the following in the thread about the best adjustable:
"Unequivocally, it’s the SuperAdjustable, particularly the post-‘77 Black Beauty. I bought a never-used one for $10 at a flea market. Huge range of adjustment, two steps closer than the Slim or Fatboy. Built like a tank, nice head-heavy balance. Fantastic." I agree with this comment and don't understand why anyone would call something this good a gimmick.
Link here: Favorite or best adjustable - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/favorite-or-best-adjustable.646712/#post-12481567
2) On December 14th you listed the "Schick injectors E, G and J. In DE’s, Gillette SuperAdjustable, Lord L5 and YUMA." as the razors that give you the best results. Also surprised at no mention of a Tech at all if it is the "pinnacle of design".
Link here: Which Razors Give You the Best Results? - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/which-razors-give-you-the-best-results.647277/#post-12501821
3) On November 17th you specifically noted that the Gillette Super Adjustable was the best of all the Gillette vintage DEs including the Tech: "Any Gillette DE, but particularly a Tech, SuperSpeed, Slim or, IMHO, the finest, a post-‘77 SuperAdjustable, the “Black Beauty”. Based on this it sounds like we are in agreement that the real pinnacle of design was the Gillette Super Adjustable "Black Beauty" with the adjustment mechanism Gillette patented in the 1950s. Per this and other posts you also like the TTO non-adjustable SuperSpeeds.
Link here: Am I crazy to want to spend my money in this instance? - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/am-i-crazy-to-want-to-spend-my-money-in-this-instance.646296/#post-12467584
Per my earlier posts well engineered TTO and/or adjustable razors are not gimmicks and in my view are rather elegant designs that, as many have noted above, make shaving easier and more effective. Based on your own recent posts such as those above you appear to feel the same way and consider an adjustable TTO as your best razor.
Please help us better understand why you would label well designed razors with TTO and adjustability as gimmicks given how you consider razors with these functions as the best ones overall?
@Lockback and @kingfisher guessing you will find the above interesting given your posts above on this.
Best wishes to everyone for a happy holiday season!
The Razorock/Baili Adjust has the same adjustment mechanism as the T2 for under $15. Sold by Italian Barber and Stirling. I started shaving with one about a month ago with great results. Clone of the adjustment mechanism used by Gillette on its Super Adjustables and Slims in the 60's - 80's.
The SuperAdjustable is Gillette’s best adjustable and, IMHO, the best adjustable of all time. But the adjustable razor, as a genre, is an unnecessary gimmick.
The reality is that with the Tech, Gillette perfected DE razor design. Technically, there was no place to go from there. And with lifetime durability (more, in fact), how to sell more razors? Gimmicks.
There is virtually no one who cannot get a good shave with a Tech. No one NEEDS more. So the MARKETING department took over to convince shavers that they had unmet needs that only a new razor could cure. Cut yourself loading blades? TTO. Need more or less aggression? Blue tip/red tip. How about adjustability? Toggle, Fat Boy, Slim, SuperA. Eventually multiple blades, carts…..
After the Tech it was all gimmicks, even if they were all great designs. Unnecessary, but great.
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It’s similar to the invention of underarm deodorant in the 1950’s. Prior, no one needed deodorant. People smelled like people had smelled since the cave man. And then some Madison Ave genius rolled out the idea that people stink and to fix it you need this new product, deodorant. And then everyone had to have it. After, we can argue over which is the best deodorant, etc., but the truth is we never needed it.
Same thing with the TTO, the blue/red tip, the adjustable, the multiblade. All curing a problem that did not exist previously. Marketing.
The second two posts of yours quoted above contradict that there is no place to go from the Tech as you state that the Super Adjustable is the best of all Gillette DE razors including the Tech and don't even include the Tech in your list of razors (that includes the Super Adjustable) that give you your best shave. Fully respect that you may feel you don't need TTO or adjustability and the basic Tech may be "good enough" for you. YMMV here as many of us do appreciate those features and enjoy the very real benefits they provide to our shaves.
No need to keep going back and forth on this as we both agree that the Gillette Super Adjustable "Black Beauty" is one of the best razors made.
Have a wonderful holiday!
You are right that TTO or adjustability are not required to get a good shave. The issue is that these features are not gimmicks as they provide material benefits in safety, convenience and shave quality. Each of us can then decide if we prefer those features and if they provide sufficient value in relation to any additional cost. It's a lot easier to load a blade into my TTO versus my three piece razor. With my new adjustable I can change a razor setting to match my preferred shaving technique instead of adjusting my technique to match the razor.
Today I'm thrilled that from a cost/value perspective one can find well designed modern razors with these features at very reasonable prices that are often no different than that for a three piece razor.
Regarding your personal hygiene example from the 1950's your are right that marketers played a role in convincing people to use various consumer products like deodorants. This was part of an overall shift in improved hygiene based on more widespread access to modern plumbing with water heaters and the addition of showers to the bath that enabled a shift from weekly to daily bathing. All of this was enabled by rising U.S. family income levels in the 50's and 60's. While society does not "need" deodorant individuals do now because all of this changed societal norms and expectations regarding body odor.
Happy holidays!
Don’t see the contradiction. The Tech is the epitome of DE razor design. The SuperSpeed and Superadjustable are the best razors of their types but they never needed to be invented. The Schick injectors are the best shaving razors ever made, DE or SE, but the injector blade thing was never necessary.
Deodorants may be new, but perfumes have been around a few thousand years. Of course they were probably used by the more affluent.
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