Submersible With 5 Aboard Gone Missing During Dive On Titanic

[CzechCzar]

‘I don’t want to be tattle tale, but I’m so worried he kills himself and others.’ Ex-OceanGate employees exchanged emails about Titan sub dangers and the CEO’s ‘quest to boost his ego’​

‘I don’t want to be tattle tale, but I’m so worried he kills himself and others.’ Ex-OceanGate employees exchanged emails about Titan sub dangers and the CEO’s ‘quest to boost his ego’

“That sub is not safe to dive … it’s a lemon.”

finance.yahoo.com

OceanGate’s former finance director reveals shocking reason behind why she quit​

OceanGate's former finance director reveals shocking reason she quit

A former finance director for OceanGate said that CEO Stockton Rush said she should take on the role as the ill-fated Titan’s chief submersible pilot — a job offer that led to her quitting si…

nypost.com

 

[Alum Ladd]

Make of this what you will, and I am not 100% sure of the veracity of the source, but we appear to allegedly have the transcript of the final descent by the Titan, and her text communications with the Polar Prince mothership.

The timestamps seem quite accurate. According to the transcript, the crew and passengers knew they were in crisis for 19 minutes before implosion.

 

[DesertIguana]

This story is about all played out, and the Real MSM has moved on.

Maybe the Tabloids if fully staffed like pre 1996 might try and cover new angle but I see none.

Except civil litigation.

 

[Alum Ladd]

This story is about all played out, and the Real MSM has moved on.

Maybe the Tabloids if fully staffed like pre 1996 might try and cover new angle but I see none.

Except civil litigation.

Sure. Totally agree on the media loss of interest. Their attention span especially nowadays is less than that of the common snail.

Its interesting though from a technical angle, and at some point the last messages will have to be released, whatever the "real" version is. I suspect this is authentic.

I doubt if there will be any cover ups in any future investigation. The tiny deep submersible community were 100% opposed to Stockton Rush and his whole way of doing things and it's on the record.

They will speak with a united voice, and it will be harsh.

Saddest thing was that the end appears not to have been instantaneous.

 

[Rhody]

This story is about all played out, and the Real MSM has moved on.

Maybe the Tabloids if fully staffed like pre 1996 might try and cover new angle but I see none.

Except civil litigation.

Everyone signed releases that according to the prior passengers mentioned the risk of death several times in the first page. This was an experimental craft. There’s not going to be USA style car accident litigation.

 

[DesertIguana]

Well 30 years chasing News, creating images for publication, working freelance for most major publications in free world taught me one thing.

What’s hot News today or a week ago is no big deal tomarrow.

Many times I remember busting butt on something, only to have it killed in production meeting. Because something bigger or better was breaking news.

Remember many times getting assignment when I was still in Lala land because of who I was working for. Only to have story killed before I finish my work.

Then I got in tune with how client worked, and any assignment be it dumb in my mind, or earth shattering.

Got wired as best I could, if killed I still got paid. That was bottom line getting paid to pay my bills.

Missing Sun story is dead INHO, unless some new angle is uncovered, and stood up like chair with for legs, and called Breaking News.

 

[Rhody]

Well 30 years chasing News, creating images for publication, working freelance for most major publications in free world taught me one thing.

What’s hot News today or a week ago is no big deal tomarrow.

Many times I remember busting butt on something, only to have it killed in production meeting. Because something bigger or better was breaking news.

Remember many times getting assignment when I was still in Lala land because of who I was working for. Only to have story killed before I finish my work.

Then I got in tune with how client worked, and any assignment be it dumb in my mind, or earth shattering.

Got wired as best I could, if killed I still got paid. That was bottom line getting paid to pay my bills.

Missing Sun story is dead INHO, unless some new angle is uncovered, and stood up like chair with for legs, and called Breaking News.

That must have been really frustrating to have a story you busted butt on get killed and land on the cutting room floor.

 

[DesertIguana]

That must have been really frustrating to have a story you busted butt on get killed and land on the cutting room floor.

Why I was young and dumb it hurt, and sometimes took it personally.

As you learn rips working for weekly News magazine on Tuesday you covered train crash with some fatatilies.

Friday the World was watch U.S. Force invading Panama, and the horrible Train v/s Tractor Trailer accident become non story.

That week I got two good payday, as Troops from 7th Light Infantry headed to Panama we found out last. Was second pay day, as they departed USAF Base close to me.

 

[Lane101]

Apparently the carbon fibre used in the sub was out of date stock bought cheap from Boeing.

So not just the wrong material, but not even the best of it.

It was never going to end any other way, was it.

@Alum Ladd , just saw your thread here. Lots of thoughtful discussion of this tragedy.

A lot of what happened here was likely driven by the need to drive down costs in order to make the business economics work. OceanGate, while a private company, relied on outside capital so likely needed to demonstrate the ability to generate a sufficient return on investment. $250K per passenger sounds like a lot but I suspect that once you cover all the operating costs for crew and mother ship there is not that much left to build your submersible at that price. For example, per a Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute FAQ, it costs $45,000 per day to keep the Alvin submersible and its support ship out at sea.

Alvin, the Woods Hole submersible that can dive to 4,500 meters, underwent a refurbishment/upgrade few year back at a cost of over $40 million. This is a vehicle with a capacity for only three passengers versus 5 on the Titan. Good guess that Titan was built for a fraction of that by cutting all the corners noted in the press. OceanGate, the firm that built Titan, raised 18 million dollars in 2020 (article link below), primarily to build two new submersibles "capable of diving to 6,000 meters" (versus 4,000 for Titan). Based on this one can estimate that they were building submersibles for at most $9 million each, less than a quarter of what a certified vessel with less crew capacity costs. Likely significantly less for Titan as it was rated for 4,000 meters versus 6,000. Implies a lot of cost cutting like use of an off-the-shelf game controller to maneuver the vessel (That OceanGate touted as something that made it easy for almost anyone to drive the vehicle).

What is unconscionable is how all the now proven dangerous shortcuts, necessitated by poor business model economics, were covered up by lots of bravado about how overly cautious the industry is with what now appear to be prudent safety standards. This appears to have been combined with alleged misrepresentations (see P.S. below) designed to convey a false sense of the safety of the Titan.

Additionally, OceanGate knew carbon fiber was subject to significant degradation over time as noted in the article that stated "Titan’s hull showed signs of cyclic fatigue" with the result that it's depth rating was reduced from 4,000 to 3,000 meters at that time. Per other sources the carbon fiber hull was later repaired or replaced to get the depth rating back up to 4,000 meters.

The bottom line here is that as we see more commercial endeavors that take us to places, like outer space where few men or women have gone before, our society will need to effect rules that ensure adequate safety standards as the FAA does for air travel.

P.S. Surprisingly OceanGate is still listing the Titan on its web site where it claims that NASA, Boeing and the University of Washington were involved in its design. Claims that are alleged to be misrepresentations by the above organizations. Marketing video is still on the site too.

Copy currently on the OceanGate website as of July 5, 2023:

"Titan​

4,000 meters (13,123 feet)

Titan is the world’s only carbon-fiber submersible capable of diving five people to 4,000 meters (13,123 feet). It is the submersible we use to survey the wreck of the RMS Titanic during our annual Titanic Expeditions. Titan’s unique ability to carry five people allows for multiple Mission Specialists, scientists and content experts to share a once-in-a-lifetime experience diving in the deep ocean.
The state-of-the-art vessel, designed and engineered by OceanGate Inc. in collaboration experts from NASA, Boeing and the University of Washington, made its subsea debut in 2018. Through the innovative use of modern materials, Titan is lighter, more spacious, and more comfortable than any other deep-diving submersible exploring the ocean today."


Link to 2020 article on Oceangate Noted Above:
https://www.geekwire.com/2020/ocean...gger-submersible-fleet-get-set-titanic-trips/

Link to OceanGate Titan Description.

OceanGate Expeditions

oceangateexpeditions.com

 

[CzechCzar]

Make of this what you will, and I am not 100% sure of the veracity of the source, but we appear to allegedly have the transcript of the final descent by the Titan, and her text communications with the Polar Prince mothership.

The timestamps seem quite accurate. According to the transcript, the crew and passengers knew they were in crisis for 19 minutes before implosion.

That was nauseating to watch

 

[CzechCzar]

OceanGate suspends operations after Titan submersible implosion

Nearly three weeks after its submersible vessel Titan imploded, killing all five people on board, OceanGate is suspending all exploration and commercial operations.

The organization posted on its website on Thursday that it would no longer be sending individuals down to the wreckage of the Titanic, or elsewhere.


OceanGate declined the Guardian’s request for further comment.

OceanGate, a private company, was founded in 2009 by Stockton Rush and Guillermo Söhnlein. Using leased commercial submersibles, the company has spent the better part of the past 13 years taking customers to various places including the shipwrecks of the Andrea Doria and the Titanic.

OceanGate rose to global prominence in June when one of its submersible vessels went missing. The US Coast Guard would later confirm that the Titan suffered a “catastrophic implosion” and all those on board, including Rush, were killed. Outside of Rush, those killed were the British adventurer Hamish Harding, 58; the French Titanic explorer Paul-Henri Nargeolet, 77; and the British Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood, 48, and his 19-year-old son Suleman.

Last week, the presumed human remains of those lost were recovered from within the wreckage.

Officials noted that the Coast Guard would transport the evidence recovered from the North Atlantic to a US port. There, medical professionals were slated to conduct a formal analysis of the remains.

“The evidence will provide investigators from several international jurisdictions with critical insights into the cause of this tragedy. There is still a substantial amount of work to be done to understand the factors that led to the catastrophic loss of the Titan and help ensure a similar tragedy does not occur again,” said Jason Neubauer, a chair captain with the Marine Board of Investigation.

The film director and deep sea expert James Cameron told Reuters in the wake of the implosion that he was skeptical when he heard OceanGate was making a deep-sea submersible with a composite carbon fibre and titanium hull.

“I thought it was a horrible idea. I wish I’d spoken up, but I assumed somebody was smarter than me, you know, because I never experimented with that technology, but it just sounded bad on its face,” Cameron said.

Many other experts within the field reportedly shared their uneasiness with OceanGate’s submersible for this voyage, telling Rush and others at OceanGate prior to embarking that “there were multiple points of failure”.

OceanGate suspends operations after Titan submersible implosion

Organization will no longer send individuals down to Titanic wreckage or elsewhere after five killed on sub

www.theguardian.com

 

[CzechCzar]

Sorry to harp on about this, but I just read The New Yorker's piece on this tragedy, and what took place is absolutely lamentable. I'm not going to post the article, because I want to honor the paywall policy of the New Yorker. But it is well worth a read.

 

[Lane101]

Sorry to harp on about this, but I just read The New Yorker's piece on this tragedy, and what took place is absolutely lamentable. I'm not going to post the article, because I want to honor the paywall policy of the New Yorker. But it is well worth a read.

View attachment 1684689

This was one of the best articles on the topic. It did a great job of covering everything that led up to this tragedy. Very consistent with our conclusions above on how how shortcuts, driven by the need to reduce costs and generate ROI, were touted as Titan advantages when in reality they were sources of high risk.

 

[Bobovata]

Shocking article, but not in the slightest bit surprising.

I have personally witnessed, in an industry I used to work in, exactly the attitude Stockton Rush had to safety, and a young man still in his teens ended up dying because of it.

 

[CzechCzar]

This was one of the best articles on the topic. It did a great job of covering everything that led up to this tragedy. Very consistent with our conclusions above on how how shortcuts, driven by the need to reduce costs and generate ROI, were touted as Titan advantages when in reality they were sources of high risk.

100% agree.

The nefarious part was how they engaged the passengers as participants, titled them as such, and then spread liability.

 

[DesertIguana]

I am surprised this story has not been completely forgotten, as most all of MSM has move on to feast, feed upon, and report the latest big News story.

 

[CJB3]

Sorry to harp on about this, but I just read The New Yorker's piece on this tragedy, and what took place is absolutely lamentable. I'm not going to post the article, because I want to honor the paywall policy of the New Yorker. But it is well worth a read.

View attachment 1684689

I thought this was an excellent article too. Very eye opening.

 

[DesertIguana]

I thought this was an excellent article too. Very eye opening.

Ditto.

 

[CzechCzar]

I thought this was an excellent article too. Very eye opening.

Ditto.

Say what you will about the New Yorker, but they can certainly write!

 

[DesertIguana]

We I reread the New Yorker article twice today, it was well written, well researched, and told a story of a disaster waiting to happen. Happed to be Father's Day 2023, not a good day for crew & mission specialists.

Also shows people with money to blow were sold an idea this was adventure of lifetime. Question I have is how many people had paid aka contributed to be mission specialist, and never will get their adventure?