Steep vs Shallow vs Neutral Shaving Angle

[Chumango]

I don't doubt that a number of people get good results from a shallow or a steep shaving angle. However, I have to wonder if it is a function of the razor more than anything else?

If you look at literature from vintage Gillette razor ads and instruction sheets, it is clear that they intended their razors to be used with a neutral shaving angle. Gillette spent no small amount of time and effort developing their shave head geometry. In some cases their literature clearly states that the neutral shaving angle, indicated by a diagram, is the right shaving angle.

Those who prefer a steep or a shallow shaving angel angle, do you find that also to be true for you for the vintage Gillette razors like the Super Speed, Fatboy, or Slim?

 

[lasta]

Razor dependent.

I shave on the shallow end of what a razor is capable of.

Keep in mind, shallow as in blade angle, not handle angle. Some modern razors are with significant blade curvature, looks steep, but actually cuts rather shallow.

 

[Chumango]

The steep/shallow I am thinking is shown in the attached image. It is not really related to blade curvature.

 

[Chumango]

Note what this 1954 Super Speed instruction sheet shows.

 

[BigJ]

I stay in the ‘neutral angle’ range, at least most of the time.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I used to think of myself as a steep shaver. It is true that I start steep, meaning, I start with the razor handle parallel to my skin and lift the handle until the blade engages. Other people, perhaps most, start with the handle perpendicular to their face and lower the handle.

In any event, though I've only been wet shaving for a few months short of 2 years now, even though I start steep... I let the razor tell me where its sweet spot is. I don't really pay attention to the angle. I listen... and feel... as I let the razor guide me. It took me a while to learn this method. I gave up on the Overlander too soon because I tried to force it to conform to me, rather than trust it to show me how to use it effectively. You don't know what you don't know....until you know. At least, that's how it often works for me.

Still, I'm not convinced there is only one true way to approach these things. We are all different and what works for one person might not work for others.

 

[Alex Jr]

I have one rule. The safety bar in contact with my skin all the time. That’s what it was designed for.

That aside, I listen to the razor and that usually means a neutral angle, sometimes a little steeper depending on the design.

But never, NEVER, that shallow angle with the safety bar away from the skin that I’ve seen mentioned here or posted in some pictures.

That, for me, means blade digging and irritation as it eliminates the safety bar’s job.

 

[blethenstrom]

I used to think of myself as a steep shaver. It is true that I start steep, meaning, I start with the razor handle parallel to my skin and lift the handle until the blade engages. Other people, perhaps most, start with the handle perpendicular to their face and lower the handle.

In any event, though I've only been wet shaving for a few months short of 2 years now, even though I start steep... I let the razor tell me where its sweet spot is. I don't really pay attention to the angle. I listen... and feel... as I let the razor guide me. It took me a while to learn this method. I gave up on the Overlander too soon because I tried to force it to conform to me, rather than trust it to show me how to use it effectively. You don't know what you don't know....until you know. At least, that's how it often works for me.

Still, I'm not convinced there is only one true way to approach these things. We are all different and what works for one person might not work for others.

I think what you just said is the reason why we may not agree with some razors either. We try to "force" the razor to shave a way that is not natural for it and we end up with sub-standard shaves. We have to learn the razor and how it wants to be used and this just takes shaving. It may take a number of shaves before we can really get the hang of a new razor.

 

[Chumango]

I have one rule. The safety bar in contact with my skin all the time. That’s what it was designed for.

That aside, I listen to the razor and that usually means a neutral angle, sometimes a little steeper depending on the design.

But never, NEVER, that shallow angle with the safety bar away from the skin that I’ve seen mentioned here or posted in some pictures.

That, for me, means blade digging and irritation as it eliminates the safety bar’s job.

Gillette made a point of this when they introduced the safety bar. It is not just to protect your skin from the razor edge, it is also there to smooth and stretch your skin in front of the blade. As they said, just as the barber does.

It is not too difficult to get skin bunching up in front of the edge when the safety bar is not in contact (riding the cap), at least it is for me.

 

[wetshaver233]

But never, NEVER, that shallow angle with the safety bar away from the skin that I’ve seen mentioned here or posted in some pictures.

Exactly my thought. I don't judge anyone who likes shaving by using a very shallow angle and while that might work better with OC razors in general, if I don't feel the safety bar on my face while shaving, the shave feels kinda nonintuitive and strange.

 

[Alum Ladd]

Gillette made a point of this when they introduced the safety bar. It is not just to protect your skin from the razor edge, it is also there to smooth and stretch your skin in front of the blade. As they said, just as the barber does.

It is not too difficult to get skin bunching up in front of the edge when the safety bar is not in contact (riding the cap), at least it is for me.

Any idea of the date of that advert?

It looks pre-Dec 1941

 

[Chumango]

I think it was 1947. The person portrayed in the ad won the race mentioned in 1946. There's very fine print of the bottom that looks like it says 1947 but it not very legible.

 

[Cafebarian]

When I started this journey in 2016, most if not all the tutorials for "how to shave with a DE razor" showed start super shallow by having the razor cap flat and handle parallel with the floor then bring down until the blade cuts.... This advise caused tons of issues for me until I started going steep "riding the bar/comb" so now the handle is more parallel with my skin. All my issues are gone. I rarely get any irritation or cuts/weepers. SASA card holder for life!

 

[Slapo]

All three, somewhat dependent on the razor. Generally, as shallow as I can for flatter areas, neutral for razors with a pronounced guide, steeper angle for my rounded features, such as my pointy chin.

 

[kingfisher]

To me, this is simple. Take away the razor, the handle, the safety bar, the top cap, everything.

Now imagine just taking a DE blade up to your face to shave with. At what angle would you hold the blade?

I am telling you that nobody would hold the blade pointing at their skin. There would be zero steep angle shavers. Everybody would be a shallow angle shaver. Because that's the way a blade is designed to be used.

Yes, adding the razor changes things somewhat. Yes, the safety bar introduces a new variable. But I would venture to guess that all these guys who say they are steep angle shavers, when it comes right down to it, don't actually have the blade edge at anywhere near the angle they are imagining in their minds. Otherwise the blade would just scrape the skin.

Watch a straight razor shaver who really knows what he is doing and get back to me about steep versus shallow.

 

[dfs]

The steep/shallow I am thinking is shown in the attached image. It is not really related to blade curvature.

Not sure I agree with that. Some razor heads designed to angle the blade edge more steep (more parallel to face) and so in fact cut hairs as if steep despite neutral handle position. I hope I am making myself clear. The steepness of shave depends on angulation of blade at razor head and the angle that the razor is held. At least that is how I think of it.

 

[purecro]

I would say for me I am more on the steep angle side but really just depends on the razor if I am honest. I am not set on steep, I will adjust to the razor basically so mostly with the razors I have its steep then neutral, it just depends on the razor so whatever the angle the razor feels to work best, much like what @Phoenixkh said really. For me, shallow angle, and I have a few times, was just when I was touching up or just wanting to finish up and get those few hairs that are just left over. Why that is exactly, I don't know but it sometimes just seems to work out that way where just that little extra makes difference it getting that last bit of stubble off.

The vintages Gillettes I have, Slim, Fatboy, Superspeed I shave steep to netural, I just find it where the razor works best. I may with any of my adjustables when its the last pass, ATG, like under my chin (specifially in this area) I may go more neutral to shallow with a lower adjustment setting just to get those final little stubble for example. So I hope that helps.

 

[Chumango]

Not sure I agree with that. Some razor heads designed to angle the blade edge more steep (more parallel to face) and so in fact cut hairs as if steep despite neutral handle position. I hope I am making myself clear. The steepness of shave depends on angulation of blade at razor head and the angle that the razor is held. At least that is how I think of it.

The definition here, using the diagram shared above, is steep = riding the safety bar (no contact with the cap), shallow = riding the cap (no contact with the safety bar), and neutral = both cap and safety bar are in contact with the skin. In that regard the blade curvature has nothing to do with it. The blade curvature does impact the actual angle of the blade in contact with the skin, but that is a different thing.

 

[SamplingNature]

I'd guess I'm neutral. But I usually let the razor tell me, adjusting my angle until it's comfortable.

 

[Ron R]

I don't doubt that a number of people get good results from a shallow or a steep shaving angle. However, I have to wonder if it is a function of the razor more than anything else?

If you look at literature from vintage Gillette razor ads and instruction sheets, it is clear that they intended their razors to be used with a neutral shaving angle. Gillette spent no small amount of time and effort developing their shave head geometry. In some cases their literature clearly states that the neutral shaving angle, indicated by a diagram, is the right shaving angle.

Those who prefer a steep or a shallow shaving angel angle, do you find that also to be true for you for the vintage Gillette razors like the Super Speed, Fatboy, or Slim?

For folks who are curious about Steep angle shaving(riding the bar) and shallow angle shaving (riding the cap) it is really not a hard thing to figure out. People also talk about proper angles to shave at and it might help but to find a angle or a sweet spot you have to listen to the razor as it is telling you are are very close to the sweet spot or correct angle.
(Old archived photos on how to find the sweet spot angle using a DE razor, when you hear the whiskers cutting you are close to ideal sweet spot riding the cap. ) (Click photo to enlarge)

Have some great shaves!