So a 23 year old punk breaks in to this 71 year old's house...

[HoratioCaine]

Great response. Also, I believe you don't need a CCW to purchase a handgun. I've never been asked for mine when purchasing a handgun. You only need it to legally carry it concealed.

I didn't have to have a permit to buy my guns in Oregon. It was actually kind of scary how easy it was to get them. The store did a background check, which literally only took five minutes over the phone. I suppose if I'd had some dirt on my record, it would have showed up, but who's to say I wasn't some nut job who had just snapped and was intent on going out and killing somebody that day, despite never having done it before? I mean, I walked out of the store with a gun, and hollow-point ammo, in under an hour.

I actually had to jump through more hoops to get my conceal-carry permit, which in some ways makes sense, but in others ways makes no sense. If I want to get a permit, it shows I want to be legal. If I want to get a gun, it just means I want a gun. And once I have that gun, if I don't intend to be legal with it, nothing is going to stop me from concealing it. So it seems to me the point of vigilance might need to be at the point the gun is obtained, rather than the permit. But of course, we have the Constitution to deal with, which (arguably) allows guns, but says nothing about the government's ability to regulate the concealment of them.

 

[Fnord5]

Equal force? Proven intent? You mean," Give the bad guy as many chances as possible to hurt you before you defend yourself." That sort of pandering, sissy crap is why I'm never leaving Texas. Here, if someone is taking a baseball bat to your car in the driveway, it is legal to shoot them. Let alone if they break into your house.
That guy didn't even get beat up that bad. A real BEATING will have you looking like airbags deployed underneath your face. Drug addiction is a total choice. You have to deal with the consequences of that choice. It's even more preventable than AIDS is.

Regardless of where you live, always remember this one rule when defending yourself, your property, and others.

It is better to be judged by twelve, than to be carried by six.

 

[burnwood]

Had the guy simply shot the burglar this wouldn't be funny. It's so funny because of the age discrepancy and the hilarious mug shot.

had the victim shot the offender it would have been hilarious.

 

[aodenkou]

Not to long ago a blind man shot a scumbag in the neck http://www.wesh.com/news/14437963/detail.html who forced his way into the home of this 75 year old guy. Yahooooo!

1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject
2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
3. Colt: the original point and click interface.
4. Gun control is not about guns, it's about control.
5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?
6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.
7. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
8. If you don't know your rights, your don't have any.
9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
10. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
11. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.
12. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.
13. Guns only have two enemies; rust and politicians.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not" - Thomas Jefferson

 

[Prince]

I guess they never read Springs1's advice:

http://howtobeagoodserver.blogspot.com/

Here we go again!!

 

[ClubmanRob]

I didn't have to have a permit to buy my guns in Oregon. It was actually kind of scary how easy it was to get them.

Are you talking about a rifle or shotgun? Yeah, it only takes minutes and you don't need a permit for them. Handgun? As far as I know all states require a handgun permit. They do a comprehensive background check before you're issued a permit. The phone call at point of purchase is to make sure you haven't gone crazy and committed a string of felonies in the time since the permit was issued.

I've said this before, I don't agree with the concept of CCW permits. In my state, it's legal to purchase a gun and transport it, and also I can carry it openly. BUT, if I tuck it under my shirt, I'm now a felon. Lame.

 

[citizensoldierny]

Clubman,
Being a former Rhode Islander I can definitely attest to the fact that you don't need a permit for handgun ownership. You do need one to carry though. You go put your money down, fill out the background paperwork that goes to the local PD wait 7 days. If nothing negative comes back you then get to pick up your nice new shiny shooter.

 

[joto]

had the victim shot the offender it would have been hilarious.

I absolutely concur. I would have laughed my *** off. What always bothered be about these situations appears to be bothering others: why should I have to determine ANYTHING about a home intruder's motives? Were this to ever happen to me, the criminal intruder will have placed me in a situation where I have:

a) NO TRAINING to handle these situations,

b) about fifteen gallons of adrenaline entering mu bloodstream in a rush, pushing my heart rate past two hundred, and

c) my family in the house.

I am probably going to be in major league panic mode, and I'm supposed to make critical decisions about the intruders intentions? Please. That won't happen. I'm probably going to panic and do whatever nature commands. I've got no police or military training that would help me to evaluate life-threatening situations with an objective eye, I'm just Joe Shmoe. I think it's absolutely unfair for the judicial system to expect me to make these kinds of judgments in the space of what is probably a few seconds. It's fine and dandy to break it down in the courtroom when level heads prevail, but in the moment I can't imagine being anything but insane with liquid, white hot fear, instinct disabling most of my higher thought processes. My billion-year-old natural instincts will proably cause me to do ANYTHING I can to survive without even thinking about it. I'm not predicting, just trying to speculate about an unfathomable mind state. I remember a news article about some guy who was mugged- in court he says the incident frightened him and made him panic in a way he had never experienced before or since.

If criminals place regular, law abiding citizens in situations where they have to make these sorts of snap judgments, my preference would be for the legal system to bend over backwards to exonerate the victims of virtually anything they do short of torture.

I hate criminals. That their rights are even considered when they victimize people is extremely offensive to me.

 

[GreatDane]

Legal to shoot him in most states? Possibly...unless you have a CCW. If you do, you have to prove that the crook was intent upon harming you, that there was a threat.
My favorite part of that news story are the comments that people left. It seems that a few side with the young fellow and feel that he was 'wronged'

Not in Florida... Even though we went "blue" last election we still have the Castle Doctrine... Basically, if someone breaks into your home, it's assumed that they're there cause you harm, and it's a good shoot. Also extends to your car, and, basically, any place that you have a 'right' to be, with the usual limits on where you can/can't carry.

 

[ClubmanRob]

Clubman,
Being a former Rhode Islander I can definitely attest to the fact that you don't need a permit for handgun ownership. You do need one to carry though. You go put your money down, fill out the background paperwork that goes to the local PD wait 7 days. If nothing negative comes back you then get to pick up your nice new shiny shooter.

I should have clarified what I was saying. You need a permit to purchase a handgun. As far as I know, this is a Federal law. Rhode Island has the same provision:

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes

State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a license from law enforcement prior to purchasing a handgun. The handgun buyer must either take a safety course or pass a written safety test. No fingerprints are required.

Rhode Island is also one of those states that require a background check even for long guns:

UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS
Are background checks required on all gun sales? Yes
State law requires universal background checks on all firearms. People buying or obtaining ownership of any firearm must go through a criminal background check prior to every purchase. Rhode Island exempts CCW permit holders from this requirement. The background check is required for all gun transfers including those at gun shows.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=RI

 

[GreatDane]

I should have clarified what I was saying. You need a permit to purchase a handgun. As far as I know, this is a Federal law.

Nope. You can buy a pistol in many states (including my beloved Florida, and my future home of Texas) without any type of permit.

Now, there is a federally mandated waiting period for handguns (3 days), but even that can be waived (for instance, if you already own a handgun and show the FFL the receipt, you can walk out the door with your new gun, at the FFL's discretion. Some states (or even counties!) have legislation that lengthens that waiting period, extends it to long guns, and/or requires a permit for purchase.

In many states, all of this is null and void when it's a "private sale", i.e. I sell you a gun, without involving a FFL.

ETA: FFL = Federal Firearms Licensee, someone licensed by the Federal government to buy and sell firearms as a business.

 

[tlanning]

I don't care who you are, that there is funny.



Horatio's argument is impassioned, respectful, logical, and probably legally sound, but it underscores a secondary problem that the victim faces- having his actions examined under a microscope, nanosecond by nanosecond, by a horde of ambtitious lawyers motivated more by greed, fame, professional aspirations, and political ideology than pursuit of justice, determined to show how smart they are.

I don't want to sound as if I'm recommending excessive violence, but if the criminal should somehow lose his ability to testify on his own behalf at some future trial, the victim won't have to suffer the additional indignity of having his good name besmirched by some low life. No trial, no reports to file.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VeFsRseqFY[/YOUTUBE]

YES,YES, YESSSS!!! Wow, very good point of view.
Great video

 

[ClubmanRob]

Nope. You can buy a pistol in many states (including my beloved Florida, and my future home of Texas) without any type of permit.

Now, there is a federally mandated waiting period for handguns (3 days), but even that can be waived (for instance, if you already own a handgun and show the FFL the receipt, you can walk out the door with your new gun, at the FFL's discretion. Some states (or even counties!) have legislation that lengthens that waiting period, extends it to long guns, and/or requires a permit for purchase.

In many states, all of this is null and void when it's a "private sale", i.e. I sell you a gun, without involving a FFL.

ETA: FFL = Federal Firearms Licensee, someone licensed by the Federal government to buy and sell firearms as a business.

Interesting. I knew the waiting period was mandatory, and I assumed the ensuing permit was a natural extension of that. Here, when I go to buy a pistol, I go down to the courthouse and buy my permit, and they call me three days later when my background check comes through. I go pick up the permit and take it to the seller, who calls to verify that I haven't committed any felonies on the way back from the courthouse.

As for long guns, I can walk into Wal-mart, point at a Remington, and the clerk calls some FBI database to see if my name scores a "hit". Then they ring it up and I'm on my way. As it should be. I can't see why it shouldn't be that simple to purchase a pistol. It all comes down to public perception. Rifles/Shotguns = cigars. Pistols = cigarettes. Neither are inherently more "dangerous" than the other, but there is always a scapegoat in every hobby.

 

[Kratos]

Interesting. I knew the waiting period was mandatory, and I assumed the ensuing permit was a natural extension of that. Here, when I go to buy a pistol, I go down to the courthouse and buy my permit, and they call me three days later when my background check comes through. I go pick up the permit and take it to the seller, who calls to verify that I haven't committed any felonies on the way back from the courthouse.

As for long guns, I can walk into Wal-mart, point at a Remington, and the clerk calls some FBI database to see if my name scores a "hit". Then they ring it up and I'm on my way. As it should be. I can't see why it shouldn't be that simple to purchase a pistol. It all comes down to public perception. Rifles/Shotguns = cigars. Pistols = cigarettes. Neither are inherently more "dangerous" than the other, but there is always a scapegoat in every hobby.

Well, Rob, a big part of that is concealability. If a guy walks up to me and pulls a rifle from under his coat before I can draw and fire, me getting shot is going to be my fault. Capacity is also greater in a lot of handguns, unless you're talking assault-style rifles.

 

[ClubmanRob]

Well, Rob, a big part of that is concealability. If a guy walks up to me and pulls a rifle from under his coat before I can draw and fire, me getting shot is going to be my fault. Capacity is also greater in a lot of handguns, unless you're talking assault-style rifles.

Concealability is a good point, and well taken. But we were told that a mandatory waiting period of handguns was for a "cooling off period", and I just don't buy that. If I was so pissed to the point I was going to commit a crime of passion, I would say screw the handgun, give me a rifle or shotgun. The end result is the same.

I was kind of referencing the perception that rifles and shotguns are OK, since they're used for target practice and hunting ("sophisticated" sports ) while handguns were for criminals and cops. I draw parallels between that and the perception that pipe/cigar smokers are healthy, sophisticated hobbyists while cigarette smokers are one step above a crack addict.

 

[Kratos]

I gotcha. That makes sense, but the average joe doesn't know handguns are primarily defensive weapons. Those of us into guns know otherwise...

As far as our topic goes, any shooting where an upstanding citizen walks away and a dirtbag gets a dirtnap is a good shooting as far as I'm concerned. My co-workers feel the same

 

[kingb71]

Here in Ontario (Canada), Gramps would have gone to jail & the poor robber would get therapy, a payout or something because his rights to be a burglar were infringed upon or some similar such nonsense....

 

[Dubbya]

Read the story, the thief attacked the old man with a knife. That's undeniable intent to harm.

Too bad it was only 4 1/2 years. He deserved more time. Thank goodness that old man could handle himself that situation could have ended up a lot worse.

I know a few judges here in SC who would have recommended that the Prosecution add charges of assault with a deadly weapon, intent of bodily harm, armed home invasion, and, depending on his mood, attempted homicide.

If you are the first to produce a weapon in this state, outside of your own property or being faced with multiple assailants, you=screwed.

 

[Dubbya]

Concealability is a good point, and well taken. But we were told that a mandatory waiting period of handguns was for a "cooling off period", and I just don't buy that. If I was so pissed to the point I was going to commit a crime of passion, I would say screw the handgun, give me a rifle or shotgun. The end result is the same.

Or a hammer, big stick, etc. I'll not comment on my stance on gun control in the interest of keeping this civil.

 

[aodenkou]

Indiana is a shall issue state for carrying a concealed firearm. That means unless you are a convicted criminal, drug user, under the care of a psychiatrist, and a few other things the state must issue you a permit. I have purchased handguns in gun stores and taken them home in as soon as it takes them to call in the background check, and that's 10 min or less. I do have a permit to carry a concealed weapon as do my two boys and all 3 of us are typically carrying when we go out the door.

If I am driving to another state I check the laws of the states I will be driving through and respect them. For example if I were to drive in IL I would have the gun unloaded and locked in a secure manner in the trunk of my car. But other states will recognize my right to carry and so I do carry.

A good friend of mine who was an LEO and is now serving "overseas" asked me one time why I did not have my weapon on me. I responded something like I did not see a need to have it with me. His response was something like better to have it with you than to wish you had it with you........ so anymore I don't walk out the door without one of my little friends. And no I don't live in a dangerous area, but then again - why not if you can?