Be on the lookout for black helicopters.
slim adjustables
- Thread starter monkeyhanger
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Have to say, I love my slim and my superspeed. The tech I'm not as fond of and, at some point, will probably pif.
Well, yeah, a privately owned company is obviously different than one with shareholders to answer to.
I once had lunch with the CEO of a software company that I greatly admired, and asked him when he was planning to take the company public (so I could buy some shares in it). I'll never forget his reply:
"Never, as long as I'm in charge. There's no better way to ruin a great company than to take it public..."
I didn't really understand what he meant by that when he said it, but I sure do now. Your post reminded me of it.
Oh, and I use Feathers and Personnas exclusively. Gillette is never getting another dollar from me as long as they insist on producing junk. I vote with my wallet. (I like to fantasize that someone from Gillette might actually read this thread, but I suspect otherwise...)
BTW: Awesome work rajagra!
So, to a certain extent, I understand the frustration people have with Gillette, but I don't see them producing nothing but Junk. Many of their blades are really some of the best on the market, in my opinion. They come at a premium that I don't like, but they are good shavers. If we're going to blame them for producing "some junk" and hold it against them forever then you're pretty much going to have to stop buying anything that's not hand made, because every company has junk now and again or even entire junk lines.
At one point in their early history Coca Cola shareholders sued the company for giving too much money to charitable / social organizations, claiming that the responsibility of a corporation was to create dividends for their shareholders and not just give it away - and they won!
Don't get me wrong mate. I'm not saying every single thing Gilette produces (or produced) is junk. Heck, 95% of my razor collection bears their stamp (though I don't own a Gillette razor any newer than a 1972 TTO). In fact, I consider the Old Type to be the best razor ever made. So I'm not slagging Gillette in their entirety.
What I am saying (and I believe others have said in this thread) is that we vote with our wallets. Chris nailed it when he said: "It's the CONSUMER'S job to vote with their money, allocating funds to companies that behave in ways they agree with."
I'm not willing to buy anything (current) from Gillette for exactly that reason. I think their business practices are shoddy in that they're intentionally trying to steer their customers towards an inferior product (multi-blade disposable cartridge razors vs. DE razors, toxic canned goo, etc.) at an increased financial and environmental cost, and purely for the sake of maximizing ther profits. It's the same reason I'll never buy another HP printer, another McDonald's cheeseburger, or shares in Halliburton.
I'm sure it's possible for a company to be profitable producing classic DE razors. Otherwise, Merkur/EJ/Muhle/etc. would not be in business. (Nor would any of us be reading this post on Badger and Blade, come to think of it - because everybody would have ditched DE and straight shaving completely if it was truly an inferior method of shaving!) So I think most of us on here would agree that newer is not necessarily better, and that Gillette seem intent on burying their older stuff and steering us towards the newer and more profitable products - regardless of their actual quality or performance.
Everybody has to vote with their conscience. A wise man once said: "Every dollar you spend is a vote for what exists in this world." And I'm not willing to vote for things I don't want to see more of. It's pretty much that simple - for me.
Sorry but i have to Disagree, I Am sure if Schick, Bic, and other companies started making them again and Pushing those adds hard, Gillette would be right behind them. Otherwise then Gillette would be loosing money, And with today's Machines they can mass Produce these like water from a River. and of course it would be Profitable.
They would probably charge like $80.00 and up for a TTO Adjustable and people would buy them. I Probably would have never Turned to DE if it wasn't for Fusion at $4.75 a Cartridge Plus Tax That's over $5.00 for 3 shaves i get out of it. There Greed is Killing them.
DE has saved my life From Being Broke, and now being able to shave as much as i want to
)Well Said.
I just knocked off Direct TV Completely off today For same reasons, Pure Greed. I have to Pay to watch TV, TV was meant to be free, I have to Pay to Record with a DVR *** VHS was Free. Then i have to pay This Greedy American Government Taxes on the $92.00 Package , Hell No, I Am now Shopping for an HD Antenna to Connect my 4 TVs To for free. Honestly I'm so sick of the greed going on with the Working Class. OH and i Also Down Graded My Cell Phone From $166.00 a month about $25.00 in Taxes For the Greedy American Government That doesn't Protect the Consumer, to a Now 59.99 Plan. Suck on that one "Greedy American Corporations.
Ohh wow, Sorry i got off Topic, But i think you guys get the point ;o)
¡Viva la Revolución!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_qgVn-Op7Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_qgVn-Op7Q
Disposable razors have a shorter learning curve and are far more convenient to the masses. Cartridge razors are better than the majority of disposables out there, for the exact same quality, it will always be cheaper and better to produce cartridge razors over one-off disposables. It's better for everyone involved, including you, the consumer.
As for the canned goo, you can just about guarantee that it is not cheaper or more profitable for them. It has a higher cost of production and is more expensive to ship. The reason they are pushing it is because the majority of buyers want canned convenience. Do you think the margins are really higher on an aerosol can over a puck of soap? Look at what Col. Conk gets for a puck.
Voting with your dollar isn't really getting you anywhere in this instance, because you're being outvoted 100-1 by people who value convenience over quality and conscience.
Now, maybe one could make the argument that buying Gillette DE products is voting with your wallet also and effecting positive change...
As for the canned goo, you can just about guarantee that it is not cheaper or more profitable for them. It has a higher cost of production and is more expensive to ship. The reason they are pushing it is because the majority of buyers want canned convenience. Do you think the margins are really higher on an aerosol can over a puck of soap? Look at what Col. Conk gets for a puck.
Voting with your dollar isn't really getting you anywhere in this instance, because you're being outvoted 100-1 by people who value convenience over quality and conscience.
Now, maybe one could make the argument that buying Gillette DE products is voting with your wallet also and effecting positive change...
I'm not debating the merits of cartridge razors over disposables. To me, they're both of basically the same ilk. Sure they require less skill, but they also produce an inferior result - and they both end up as unrecyclable waste in a landfill somewehere. To me, it's equivalent to debating which brand of cigarettes is better for my health. Better to just quit smoking.
Sorry mate. I can't say that I agree. I seriously doubt that a can of goo that was concocted in a huge vat (probably mass produced thousands of liters at a time) is more expensive or labor intensive to produce than a hand crafted product like Mama Bears - or even something produced in larger quantities like Conks or TOBS. The economy of scale needs to be considered (the more of it you make, the lower the cost per unit).
We also can't leave the quality out of the equation. I don't know about you, but I don't base my choice of shave soap or cream on what is cheapest. If I'm going to be working my way through a tub of something for the next six months - I want it to be the best stuff I can put between the blade and my skin. Saving a few bucks is not my priority. QUALITY is.
Again, I have to respectfully disagree. It's getting me everywhere. I can look myself in the mirror, and know I am not personally contibuting to trashing the world that my sons are going to inherit.
Maybe you didn't mean it this way, but what you're saying sounds dangerously cynical to me - like "well, everybody else is acting like an idiot so I may as well join them!"
I don't buy into that sort of logic. I think every choice we make has consequences. They may seem small when observed in isolation. But they have a funny way of gathering steam as more and more people realize that they are not powerless to effect change.
I'd rather buy DE products from a company that is clearly showing a dedication to the DE shaving community, of which I am a part, than from a company that seems intent upon burying it!
Damn - how did I end up on that soap box again?
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The economy of scale applies the same to Gillette no matter if they are making goo or soap. It's always going to be cheaper for them to make soap, it's just not as marketable. And we're not just discussing me or you here, we're discussing regular shaving consumers. 99+% of them will choose cheaper and faster over better quality, superior results or more eco/political/whatever else friendly. Wallet and time friendly are what drives the majority of consumers and that's what large companies cater to. You don't want to give that money to them and that's fine, but razor blades are a funny place to draw the line for most folks, as they are still buying "name brand" clothing, cars, computers, etc.
Voting with your wallet implies that you are making an impact. If you're not impacting corporate direction then you're not casting a vote, you're just making yourself feel good. That's fine, but I don't think you can call it anything other than what it is.
Voting with your wallet implies that you are making an impact. If you're not impacting corporate direction then you're not casting a vote, you're just making yourself feel good. That's fine, but I don't think you can call it anything other than what it is.
Sorry but i have to Disagree, I Am sure if Schick, Bic, and other companies started making them again and Pushing those adds hard, Gillette would be right behind them. Otherwise then Gillette would be loosing money, And with today's Machines they can mass Produce these like water from a River. and of course it would be Profitable.
They would probably charge like $80.00 and up for a TTO Adjustable and people would buy them. I Probably would have never Turned to DE if it wasn't for Fusion at $4.75 a Cartridge Plus Tax That's over $5.00 for 3 shaves i get out of it. There Greed is Killing them.
DE has saved my life From Being Broke, and now being able to shave as much as i want to
Sure, but why would they? It's not like their business model as is isn't working...
Many of us forget that Gillette (P&G) does have a high end outlet that appeals to many of us here. Think Art of Shaving. AoS sells spiffed up cart razors Merkurs and Merkur DE blades along with their great AoS soaps. They could private lable a Merkur product or, better yet, introduced a well engineered DE razor under either the Gillette or AoS brands and reintroduce Gillette DE blades (from one of their many subsidiaries that are already making blades). It's a no-brainer if they apply some of their marketing experience and allow them to market to our small portion of the market. They obviously feel that we're profitable enough to do the AoS thing.
As far as "regular shaving customers" are concerned - I'm not sure I'd agree. The vast majority of men (and women) I have bothered to introduce to wet shaving have switched to it, having realized the benefits. So my personal experience is that once people are informed, they make better decisions. Though you may be right that 99+% are currently using the newer and inferior products, I'm not convinced that this number would hold if they knew there was a viable and better alternative. Most people who see my razors go "what are THOSE?!?!!"
To your other point - I don't draw the line just at razors. I try to employ this philosophy in every purchase decision I make. (I stated this earlier with regard to other products - McDonalds, HP, etc.)
How do you know we are not impacting corporate direction? I just read the interview with Andreas Müller here at B&B (General Manager of Mühle). I quote: "We follow the discussions on B&B and other forums closely." Now, granted - Mühle is not exactly Gillette. But I still think you underestimate the power we have as a community. And a community is made up of individuals, making individual decisions.
Gandhi said "Be the change that you wish to see in the world."
It starts with me.
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It's not just that Muhle is "not exactly Gillette", you're drawing a comparison between a company who is in this market and one who is not. If I cater to a niche market I will follow that market. If I am a trend-setter / market maker, I will not follow fringe markets.
The DE market in North America is not a market of concern to Gillette. A few thousand people not buying their products is not going to make a dent in their bottom line and they aren't going to take notice. Period. Now, conversely, a spike in the North American market's interest in Gillette DE blades might indeed capture their interest because they can actually see positive revenue and they don't have to develop a new product line. So, buying their razor blades might actually make them the company you want them to be.
Regardless, I'm not going to punish them for having one of the best blade lineups in the industry. Who else comes close to quality and selection of Gillette? Feather? No. Personna? No. Kai? No. Rapira? Maybe, but they seem to be just copying Gillette blades. Gillette is making some of the highest quality blades in the largest selection, essentially, they are making the best product line on the market, but you're refusing to do business with them because of their inferior products that are not even in the same market as you. If Seiko makes mediocre clocks and excellent watches, are you going to avoid their watches? I've owned some terrible Sony car stereo equipment, I think it may be some of the worst name brand equipment on the market. That doesn't mean I think their TVs suck. I think we just see this differently.
The DE market in North America is not a market of concern to Gillette. A few thousand people not buying their products is not going to make a dent in their bottom line and they aren't going to take notice. Period. Now, conversely, a spike in the North American market's interest in Gillette DE blades might indeed capture their interest because they can actually see positive revenue and they don't have to develop a new product line. So, buying their razor blades might actually make them the company you want them to be.
Regardless, I'm not going to punish them for having one of the best blade lineups in the industry. Who else comes close to quality and selection of Gillette? Feather? No. Personna? No. Kai? No. Rapira? Maybe, but they seem to be just copying Gillette blades. Gillette is making some of the highest quality blades in the largest selection, essentially, they are making the best product line on the market, but you're refusing to do business with them because of their inferior products that are not even in the same market as you. If Seiko makes mediocre clocks and excellent watches, are you going to avoid their watches? I've owned some terrible Sony car stereo equipment, I think it may be some of the worst name brand equipment on the market. That doesn't mean I think their TVs suck. I think we just see this differently.
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