SHOW US YOUR SEALED STONES, AND MAYBE HOW YOU DID IT

[Lord Fatboy]

Spent several days lacquering these.
From left to right: Two Swaty barber hones (1), very hard Suita Nashiji that is the pick of the bunch (2), Tsushima cube (3), Unknown Asagi (4), Shobu Asagi (5), Small Kiita (6), Huge "Red Binsui" from Thailand or China I think (7), a bunch of Uchi, Thuri & Kaisei-do chips (8), Iyoto (9), Iwatani Asagi with ghostly karasu that's a close second to the Suita (10), Ohira Asagi (11). Second pic is a bunch of tomo chips & the SAwaty hones again.

Should post better as I use the stones.

 

[Mr.Tee]

How about some photos and information on how you sealed your stones, naturals or synthetics.

This suita Jnat I wrapped in washi japanese mulberry paper and dipped for 5 coats of varnish. Don't forget to use blue tape to cover the side that you use for sharpening.

Alex

Gorgeous looking suita. It must perform equally well to have taken the time to put on that wrap.

I have only used cashew laqcuer thinned with turps to seal my stones. I have found as others have before me that the first coat its the most important. Super super thin, as in more turps than laqcuer. Especially so on softer more porous and/or fissured stones. It really soaks in and sets the foundation for additional coats.

 

[Pokeystotle]

So what's the deal with sealing stones? It's something I'm not familiar with.

I'm not familiar with sealing stones either. So far all the stones I have came to me sealed already. However, as I am now shopping in a lot of different stores, several international, the stones come uncured. So I am digesting all I can so that I am ready when I do receive an uncured stone. Given the value of some Jnats and depending on what I spend I am probably going to spend the extra money on the cashew lacquer and probably leave the nail polish for some Tomo, not the finer finishing pieces, those I'll apply the cashew lacquer and washi paper. Tradition and aesthetics are very important to me in this process. Though, from what I see, the nail polish doesn't seem to cause any problems, and I haven't read any reports about it being an issue.

I think the decision to go with the harder to get cashew lacquer or the nail polish really depends on how you feel about your stones, the stone you are curing, and the condition of the stone too. Because I tend to spend the extra money on the expensive Jnats I look at them as an investment, and see the cashew lacquer as protecting that investment.

 

[Mr.Tee]

Exactly, I have only used cashew laquer for essentially the same reasons. While its probably not “better” than many of the other options, but I will say its the first option I tried, and I have no reason to switch.

 

[Adonay]

Tks Alx, very interesting your method.

 

[Pokeystotle]

I’ve invested enough money into several of my Jnats that an extra $50 didn’t seem like a huge sacrifice and so I bought cashew lacquer from Tea Doga. I applied several thin layers, the first coat being the most important, so it seems. Though, the small can appears ridiculous compared to the price tag, the cashew lacquer, given it is thinner out with turpentine, actually goes a long way. I’ve sealed seven large (no less than 850 gram) Jnats with what I got from one can of cashew lacquer with some to spare. Though it does not keep well at all.

I tried masking the face and not masking the face. See, I like to seal the bottom of the stone, so long as it isn’t a duel faced stone, even if I don’t have to seal the bottom. I just don’t see how it can hurt.

I admit masking the face seemed to be easier and any alleged tape residue was either not there or if anything was left behind was much easier to lap away then any stray cashew lacquer. Where cashew lacquer did make it on the face on accident, on unmasked stones, I used a clean brush, dedicated only to clean turpentine to thin out the cashew lacquer before it set and then wiped it clean with a clean rag.

I just got the green wax Keith recommended in his YouTube Jnat sealing 2 video. Now I need the sticks to hold the nagura. So I’ll try that method for smaller stuff.

As for larger stones, I just made sure to keep the drips from setting by returning after five minutes to check and make sure the lacquer came to rest - this allows me a chance to clean up brush strokes and drips in case they appear before the lacquer set up.

Eric from Tea Dogu is very helpful and if needed quicker, you can upgrade your shipping speed. My last order I did that - where I ordered the lacquer on Thursday and had it by Saturday. I believe he ships out of Oregon.

And I’m sure I’m repeating what most of you already know and probably know a lot more than I do but I only order what I believe I can use within a few weeks and no more usually. I’ve had a jar of lacquer, about a quarter of the volume left, that went bad and had chunks and whatever else floating around in it. I tried to thin it out with turpentine and that did nothing to restore the lacquer.

When I first started I did not give enough emphasis to just how thin the first coat should be. Subsequent coats don’t seem to be as crucial as far as being thin but should be thin, so it seemed.

I also found the plastic syringe and quality brush to be highly worth the time and effort to obtain. I used cheesecloth to strain the thinned lacquer into a glass jar but put a rubber band around the jar to hold the cheesecloth in place.

Last, something I didn’t consider at first, was the temperature where I was lacquering and the time it takes for the first thin coat to set. Obviously the warmer it is the faster it usually sets. But Keith recommends 1-2 hours and I found that was correct. But again, I set a timer on my phone to make sure I didn’t get too busy and forget.

After all, you really only get one shot to get it right. This is also why I practiced on smaller, cheaper Nagura, like Ban and Botan. I’d rather make a mistake on one of them than an expensive Awasedo.

Most of, if not all of my “recipe” came directly from what I got from Tomo Nagura’s YouTube videos on sealing Jnats. So credit goes to Keith. I honestly did not vary much from his method. After using that method roughly 30 times, I’ve found it to be satisfactory and gives me beautiful and practical results.

Again, I think Jnats are worth the extra few bucks, but I can see the appeal of other sealers like the nail polish. And yes, $50 isn’t cheap for the small amount you get but it does go a long way if applied in TN’s method.

I found sealing to be somewhat fun actually. And I do recommend, as I’m sure many others do, practicing with smaller slurry stones and cheaper Toishi to get your technique down.

 

[Pokeystotle]

Exactly, I have only used cashew laquer for essentially the same reasons. While its probably not “better” than many of the other options, but I will say its the first option I tried, and I have no reason to switch.

I actually think a lot of people are intimidated by cashew lacquer but if they tried it - they might find it’s actually not all that mysterious.

However, what is mysterious is the Washi paper technique. I wanted to try it but I have no idea how to do it.

 

[timwcic]

Another non traditional option to seal Jnats. For almost a decade I been using Minwax Lacquer Sanding Sealer (pictured below) for sealing paper labels that had no other option to protect. Never had a problem so thought I would give it a try sealing a stone. Very easy to work with and apply. I do thin with lacquer thinner 50/50 on labels. I did a 20/80, thin and runny, to use on the Jnat to get it to soak into on the first coat. As I worked and the thinners evaporated, I added drops of thiner to get the viscosity where I wanted it. Did 5 coats and 24 hour dry down before lapping off the overcoat on the working surface. Only been one week, but so far very happy with the end product

 

[Steve56]

Cashew lacquer comes from yes, the cashew fruit, the same tree that gives us the nuts. Along with hon urushi, it is a traditional lacquer in Japan. Cashew is easier to use and cure than hon urushi, and safer as hon urushi is the sap of the kiurushi tree, and is basically poison ivy sap.

Anyway, the first image is my set up to apply cashew lacquer on these stones. BTW, the Japanese do not lacquer Mikawa nagura because they aren’t layered stones, but it is popular to lacquer them in the west to preserve the stamps or keep them clean of hand grime.

First image top row, two Mikawa nagura, a small can of amber cashew lacquer distilled turpentine. Bottom row, a good quality non-shedding brush, a disposable scoopage spoon, two barber size stones, and a large spice bowl lined with aluminum foil for easy cleanup. I dilute the cashew with turpentine until it’s about like maple syrup.

Applying it takes some learning but it isn’t difficult, too thick and it could run or sag before it sets, and it will wrinkle if it’s too thick.

 

[Steve56]

And the others.

 

[Legion]

Slate floor sealant, for the win.

It's thin, so the first coat soaks in a bit, then two more coats for lustre and durability. It’s designed to be walked on for years, so it’s pretty indestructible.

 

[nicepatina]

Here's one that you don't see too often. A sealed coticule! It had a hairline crack that only became visible after honing on running water. It was right above the area where the slate met the coticule layer and ran from one end all the way to the middle. I was worried to say the least. So I tried sealing the crack with ca glue then used cashew lacquer to seal that. The end result was this, A Neapolitan ice cream bar.

 

[Steve56]

Just sealed a 120 x 60 x 35 Nakayama with amber cashew lacquer.

 

[alex1921]

Now that the weather is getting better I can resume the sealing with cashew.

Suita.

 

[rhgg2]

Since cashew lacquer isn't available in Australia, I've been casting around for other good solutions. If I can't do it properly I figure I may as well avoid solvent based products altogether - we don't have anywhere suitable in our house/yard to offgas things after varnishing so something low VOC is just heaps easier.

For water-based it's quite hard to find something good. There are lots of crappy cheap water based stone sealers, and I tried a couple but they bond more to themselves than to the stone and start peeling off as soon as you lap. There are much better water based sealers available but all come in at least 1 litre tins and are $$$ which seems like a waste of money for the tiny amount needed for honing stones.

I tried nail varnish next but found it pretty hard to work with. Adding thinner is a bit of an art, add a bit too much and it breaks down completely, add too little and it is impossible to apply.

Next up I tried some water-based poly, but it's also not that easy to work with, in particular it is very easy to leave brush marks even when diluted down super watery. The one I tried did not leave a nice finish or tactility either.

In the end what I have found is pretty good is the water-based product (which seems to be called "Mr. Stone") sold by 330mate:

https://buyee.jp/item/search/query/いしさん/seller/sftD7e4JOI7ti%252FymamS9p6Hhw0NdbfIB4B3FTRBEdjA%3D

It was about $15 US including shipping for 50g, which is way more than I can possibly use. I have taken out 10g and thinned it down 1 part product to 3 parts water (keep the thinned down stuff out of sunlight and heat) and put on very thin coats. Leaves no brush marks, touch dry in a few minutes and I can recoat in a couple of hours. Five coats gives a nice glossy finish:

which is also has good tactility in the hand. It behaves like you would hope on lapping, similar to hardened CA, and doesn't peel. According to the blurb it contracts rather than expands on drying so should be safe (and even helpful) to seal cracks etc. I'm pretty pleased with it, in particular because now I don't have to keep trying new stuff out.

 

[Steve56]

The first suitable day this year for sealing stones, and I had some ‘stock’ built up and ready for sealing. The stones were a barber size kiita, three tamamoku mizu asagi including two huge ones, and a couple of tomo. I also did a batch of fingerstones, more on those in another post.

I used cashew lacquer, #51 amber for the kiita and #91 black for the asagi. These colors just look good on their respective stones. Basic equipment was a 4” spice bowl with pieces of aluminum foil to line it, making cleanup easy, distilled turpentine, a 1/2” high quality brush, disposable spoons for scooping the lacquer, and cheesecloth for straining. I usually don’t need to strain it, but these cans were old and near the bottom so there might be some clumping (there was some clumping in the amber) or bits from around the lid. If the results from the older product weren’t acceptable, I would just let it cure overnight, sand it, then re-coat it with newer product, using the old stuff as a base coat or primer.

Cashew can be difficult to find, so I like to not waste any and have extra stones lined up so that no lacquer is left over, all that I mix up gets used.

I dilute the lacquer to about the consistency of maple syrup, which usually takes about 30% turpentine. If the lacquer is too thick, it’s prone to wrinkling, especially in the thicker areas, and if too thin it can of course run. But this isn’t much different from other brushed paints, and the trick is to get the dilution within an acceptable range, which is not difficult. There’s. really not any secrets to applying it, it’s paint. Brush it on and let it dry.

If you’re only doing sides and you start to get a sag, you can flip the stone over and the paint sag in the other direction if you catch it in a minute or two. This usually does the trick

Usually I place the stones on rigid cardboard, but a couple of stones have been over 5 pounds so I glued pieces of double wall cardboard box material together beforehand to ensure an adequate support. Being able to support the stone on a small piece of cardboard allows you to put a hand underneath and after coating, quickly inspect it for missed spots or beginning sags which can be fixed if caught within a minute or two.

So how did it go? Pretty well actually. I got one light sag on the end of one stone that’s difficult to see, so it probably won’t get redone. Everything else went well.

 

[Steve56]

Now that the cashew is cured, the large stone got a base. In the above image it is just sitting on the base unattached. The reason is that the back is about 2/3 width and the stone can wobble a little making uniform use of the tomo across the surface a bit annoying. Usually I use silicone adhesive on smaller stones in case I ever want to remove the stone from the base, but a atound 5.5 pounds or about 2,500g, I was not going to trust silicone adhesive, so two part epoxy got the nod.

 

[Steve56]

Let’s do some fingerstones. Fingerstones are small pieces of usually uchigumori or sometimes soft kiita or iromono used to polish metal, like kitchen knives, or even razors should you decide to go to the effort.

The first thing that you need is a piece of stock, like this piece of uchigumori about 6” long. Some stones can be split with a chisel along the layers, some will not split and have to be sawn. I use a cheap Harbor Freight wood chisel to split off pieces, or a tile saw to saw layers.

Here are some splittings from a chiseled atone. The next step is to flatten and thin them so that you can decide how to proceed. Most every piece has some value. Sanding these can be rough on your finger tips and fingernails, so I use a little piece of florist’s clay to make a ‘grip’ and keep my fingertips off the sandpaper.

Thin pieces get reinforced with washi (mulberry) paper and cashew lacquer, thick pieces just get lacquer if I have it mixed, or go au naturel. Max had a video on his website at one time showing how to lacquer and use very thin pieces that involved papering and lacquering them, scoring them and breaking them along the score lines to basically make a flexible fingerstone. I’ve had better luck using a thicker piece shaped to my steel by laying sandpaper on the blade and using the blade itself to form the fingerstone surface, first image, a shaped stone from a sword guy in Japan.

For the papered stones, I coat the stone with lacquer, and the side of the washi facing the stone with lacquer, apply the paper, then another thin coat of cashew on top. It will take a while for this to fully cure. Second and third images.

I almost never do fingerstones by themselves. Usually I have some hones, some tomo, mikawa, etc going and I have a batch of fingerstones that get lacquered if I have enough lacquer, the idea being not to waste any cashew lacquer.

And that’s it. The only remaining thing is to sand any errant lacquer off the face of them.

 

[Steve56]

Here’s an example of fingerstone results, the bevel finish on a takobiki, or octopus knife. Oli, aka @cotedupy was using one of my fingerstones.