Razor Burn Question (newbie)

[abies]

Adding Common Razors To Razorock Chart

I know there are guys out there with a healthy collection of Razorock razors. I thought it would be interesting if you gentlemen could situate common razors in the Razorback chart below. Personally I would be interested to see where you would place the KCG (DE 89 clone), FOCS, Feather Popular...

www.badgerandblade.com

Yeah so that that seems roughly right poking around and looking.

As others have said, there's a lot of fuzziness in these statements by vendors and users. There's variability in production and different preferences and senses of what makes something aggressive.

For what it's worth, on another forum, I found someone who said they measured the blade gap on the Teck II and said it was 0.045 inches, or 1.143 mm. If true, that would be pretty big and much bigger than the EJ, as seen here:

Blade gap and exposure

You beat me to mentioning it, also Henson aggressive and Timeless .95. This is already starting to show a clear correlation between the measurements and the type of adjustment. I am wondering though about those three on the far right, that seems a bit strange. One other thing, it has been...

www.badgerandblade.com

Even with that gap, if the Teck II has a really small blade exposure it could still be perceived as "mild" by a lot of people, but depending on your angle and pressure it could come across as more aggressive than the EJ for you in particular.

In your photo, just looking at it briefly, it doesn't seem like the blade gap is that much bigger than the EJ (if anything to me the EJ looks like it has a bigger one), so that 0.045 might not be right.

A lot of this depends on the specifics of how you use the razor etc.

 

[Jay21]

I read that someone measured the blade gap and it was around 1.35 mm.

 

[Phoenixkh]

The most common cause of razor burn, which is irritated skin, is incorrect blade angle.
Razors are not the same. What angle works with one razor may not be correct at all with another.
You want the blade as parallel to the skin as possible, while maximizing the cutting of the hair.
If your angle is off, you are rubbing the edge of the blade against your face like a paint scraper. Yes, it will remove hair, but it will also remove some skin, causing irritation.
Pay close attention to the blade angle as you move from one razor to another and make sure you have determined the correct angle FOR THAT razor.

Thx for that, Phil.......... I know at the beginning of my journey, I tried to force all my razors to shave at the same angle. I hadn't yet learned to speak razor... where you hear the razor tell you its preferred angle. I've often said, the Lambda Athena taught me how to shave.... only because it spoke loudly and I was able to hear it... then learn to interpret it.

As you suggest, face feel and sound can guide us to the right angle for each razor because they are all slightly different. Just a tilt of the razor up or down can help us find that sweet spot where the razor and the user become one.

 

[cf1]

Ok, explain something to me. According to a chart on this forum, the Razorock Tech 2 is a mild shave. Yet, the Edwin Jagger DE89 is mild/medium. Ok, is the DE89 is more aggressive, why am I getting razor burn from the Tech 2, yet a getter shave with no razor burn from the more aggressive razor? Same soap, same blades. What is going on here?

First check the razor for even alignment and exposure on both sides. It’s not CNC so there could be alignment isssues. Other good comments here on angle and pressure.

 

[Guido75]

I do not know what those items are yet.

Yes you do. It’s at least your dad’s Tech although I would suggest to get an earlier one too with heavier metals and milder specifications. Later Techs are supposedly more aggressive than the earlier ones. At least my 1950s Tech fits that description.

 

[bebo8]

It’s possible that with the more aggressive razor you don’t have to apply as much pressure since the razor is doing the work for you. Where with a milder one you tend to use pressure to cut a similar close shave resulting in irritation.
Maybe also given your predetermined knowledge that the razor is aggressive lent to you being more careful with it and again applying less pressure

 

[Jaybyrd]

This is all very helpful. I ended up here because, as a Newb, my shave this evening was one of the worst in terms of irritation/redness/burning. I think ya’ll answered the reason I got this…maybe too much pressure or not a great combo razor & blade. Here’s what I did:
Warm water to face
Proraso pre-shave
Proraso brush
Proraso shave cream
RazoRock Mamba 70
Astra blade (green pack)
Alum
Proraso aftershave lotion

Several small weepers especially on the neck. Extreme irritation on the neck, mild irritation on face with touching.
This is the first time (likely in my life) that I’ve shaved 3 days in a row. I’ve been enjoying this a lot so I wanted to shave each night I can.

Should I changed technique? Should I use a Feather blade, Wilkinson blade, Parker blade, or stick with the Astra? Should I not shave daily? I could also use the Henson or Leaf twig? I’ve been trying to use the same combo but this didn’t work very well tonight. Thank you.

 

[Jay21]

This is all very helpful. I ended up here because, as a Newb, my shave this evening was one of the worst in terms of irritation/redness/burning. I think ya’ll answered the reason I got this…maybe too much pressure or not a great combo razor & blade. Here’s what I did:
Warm water to face
Proraso pre-shave
Proraso brush
Proraso shave cream
RazoRock Mamba 70
Astra blade (green pack)
Alum
Proraso aftershave lotion

Several small weepers especially on the neck. Extreme irritation on the neck, mild irritation on face with touching.
This is the first time (likely in my life) that I’ve shaved 3 days in a row. I’ve been enjoying this a lot so I wanted to shave each night I can.

Should I changed technique? Should I use a Feather blade, Wilkinson blade, Parker blade, or stick with the Astra? Should I not shave daily? I could also use the Henson or Leaf twig? I’ve been trying to use the same combo but this didn’t work very well tonight. Thank you.

Blades don’t cause weepers, technique does. If you’re getting weepers and irritation, try using shorter strokes, a shallower angle, thicker lather, and don’t shave against the grain.

 

[D T Law]

Ok, explain something to me. According to a chart on this forum, the Razorock Tech 2 is a mild shave. Yet, the Edwin Jagger DE89 is mild/medium. Ok, is the DE89 is more aggressive, why am I getting razor burn from the Tech 2, yet a getter shave with no razor burn from the more aggressive razor? Same soap, same blades. What is going on here?

After some years of using DE razors i find that my skin has become used to a sharp single blade. I now can use all razors without any problem...It may be that i always use the weight of the razor itself and when i use the unusual plastic type, slant etc i play the blade to get the feel of the cut rather than scrape and hope for a good result. Less pressure the better, and also get a good prep before every shave.Nice and slow wins the day.

 

[musicman1951]

This is all very helpful. I ended up here because, as a Newb, my shave this evening was one of the worst in terms of irritation/redness/burning. I think ya’ll answered the reason I got this…maybe too much pressure or not a great combo razor & blade. Here’s what I did:
Warm water to face
Proraso pre-shave
Proraso brush
Proraso shave cream
RazoRock Mamba 70
Astra blade (green pack)
Alum
Proraso aftershave lotion

Several small weepers especially on the neck. Extreme irritation on the neck, mild irritation on face with touching.
This is the first time (likely in my life) that I’ve shaved 3 days in a row. I’ve been enjoying this a lot so I wanted to shave each night I can.

Should I changed technique? Should I use a Feather blade, Wilkinson blade, Parker blade, or stick with the Astra? Should I not shave daily? I could also use the Henson or Leaf twig? I’ve been trying to use the same combo but this didn’t work very well tonight. Thank you.

There are generally two ways to produce a nice case of irritation: too much pressure and the wrong razor angle. With new shavers it's almost always a combination of the two. My personal test for pressure is to see if I drop the razor into the sink - if not there was plenty of pressure. Use less, and then cut that amount in half. I suspect the general plague of too much pressure comes from muscle memory using carts and an attempt to correct bad razor angle by adding more pressure. It does take some experience to find the perfect razor angle, but you'll get there - we all went through the same process.

I suggest only doing WTG passes for a short time - until there are bloodless days of shaving. Two WTG passes a day are fine (short strokes, lighter pressure than you think). Then add XTG.

You're equipment looks fine. I would not use a Feather blade until you've graduated to only a couple of weepers a week or so. The blade does not cause weepers, but a Feather blade is exceedingly unforgiving of any lapse in technique.

You can try any razor and any blade, but until you have normalized some consistent results through improved technique it's generally a bad idea - you won't know which factor influenced your results.

Hang in there, it will get easier sooner than you imagine.

 

[Proper Irish]

This is all very helpful. I ended up here because, as a Newb, my shave this evening was one of the worst in terms of irritation/redness/burning. I think ya’ll answered the reason I got this…maybe too much pressure or not a great combo razor & blade. Here’s what I did:
Warm water to face
Proraso pre-shave
Proraso brush
Proraso shave cream
RazoRock Mamba 70
Astra blade (green pack)
Alum
Proraso aftershave lotion

Several small weepers especially on the neck. Extreme irritation on the neck, mild irritation on face with touching.
This is the first time (likely in my life) that I’ve shaved 3 days in a row. I’ve been enjoying this a lot so I wanted to shave each night I can.

Should I changed technique? Should I use a Feather blade, Wilkinson blade, Parker blade, or stick with the Astra? Should I not shave daily? I could also use the Henson or Leaf twig? I’ve been trying to use the same combo but this didn’t work very well tonight. Thank you.

Newer DE shaver here as well. I got a lot of redness/irritation on my neck when I first started DE shaving.
I was able to determine a few causes:

•Shaving every day.
My face was fine but my neck wasn’t having it. Coming from having a beard for the better part of 20 years, my skin wasn’t used to any razor, let alone multiple passes with a DE razor.
It‘s gotten used to shaving after a few months, but I still choose to shave every other day because my skin seems to prefer it. If I do need to shave every day, I only do one pass on my neck.
Just as our hair is different, so is our skin. I’ve read/heard guys say they can shave 3 passes every day no problem, and others say their skin just doesn’t like it. (I’m not sure where I land, gonna wait till after a year of regular shaving to see how my skin adapts).

•Cold water > hot water.
I don’t know the science behind it, but I get a MUCH better shave with cold water. My skin loves it.
It’s quite nice with warmer weather, not as enjoyable in colder weather lol.

•Correct angle and pressure.
I was actually using too little pressure on my problem areas, causing the razor to hop, skip and pull.
In time, the correct angle and pressure becomes intuitive. Just takes practice.

•Proper lather. In the beginning my lather building skills suffered, I was making it too thick or too thin. I don’t know how much this attributed to the problem, but it certainly didn’t help it.


•Razor.
When I first start visiting here and reading, I couldn’t understand how one person could think a razor was the best razor in the world, and another say it shaved like crap and tore their face up.
Now having used 5 different razors, I understand. Some razors work great for you and you just click with them. Some don’t. But it takes trying different razors to find what really works best for you.
For example- Without listing all my razors, I’ll just say that my latest razor is the most efficient/aggressive of the bunch, yet I’m getting my best shaves & the least amount of irritation to date. The first shave with it was a revelation. But coming into the hobby, I thought a “mild” razor would be my preference and give me the least amount of irritation. Turns out my hair/skin might prefer a more efficient razor
Only way to know is to try different razors.
*(also, I’m convinced there’s a fair bit of batch/sample variation regarding razors and their specs, tolerances, etc. There’s definitely some duds. Same goes for razor blades).



This is the most YMMV hobby I’ve ever encountered. I don’t know if there’s any universal truths in shaving. It’s all a learning process to find what works best for you. You learn a little more with each shave, be it what to do or what not to do. Likewise, it takes trying different products to find the ones that work best for you.
Like most things in life, it ultimately just takes time to get really good at it and find your preferences.

That’s my “blind leading the blind” advice from one new guy to another

 

[Hopalong]

Don't drag the razor across anywhere that doesn't have shaving creme on it.
I'm guilty of this sometimes when I touch up in a hurry. Feel it later.
I try to remember to always go back to the brush for no matter how small the area is I want to touch up.

 

[Jaybyrd]

There are generally two ways to produce a nice case of irritation: too much pressure and the wrong razor angle. With new shavers it's almost always a combination of the two. My personal test for pressure is to see if I drop the razor into the sink - if not there was plenty of pressure. Use less, and then cut that amount in half. I suspect the general plague of too much pressure comes from muscle memory using carts and an attempt to correct bad razor angle by adding more pressure. It does take some experience to find the perfect razor angle, but you'll get there - we all went through the same process.

I suggest only doing WTG passes for a short time - until there are bloodless days of shaving. Two WTG passes a day are fine (short strokes, lighter pressure than you think). Then add XTG.

You're equipment looks fine. I would not use a Feather blade until you've graduated to only a couple of weepers a week or so. The blade does not cause weepers, but a Feather blade is exceedingly unforgiving of any lapse in technique.

You can try any razor and any blade, but until you have normalized some consistent results through improved technique it's generally a bad idea - you won't know which factor influenced your results.

Hang in there, it will get easier sooner than you imagine.

Thank you much for the tips. I do believe, based on what you’re saying, that I am using too much pressure. I feel like I have to get more of the whiskers off than I am getting in my first pass or second pass. Sometimes trying to touch up along the way so I’ll stop this practice and see how I do with minimal pressure. I feel okay with the angle of attack for the most part. I struggled the first few times under the nose but starting shaving XTG and this works well. Is there anything saying I can’t go right into an ATG shave essentially to try to lessen my passes or does this not work well? It’s like once I make that first pass it’s hard to get the remaining whiskers cleaned off, it that makes sense. I’ll keep at it though because it’s a blast. I actually am enjoying shaving for the first time in my life and my wife is like “you’re shaving again, you’ve never shaved so much in 20 years” haha. Appreciate you all.

 

[Jaybyrd]

Newer DE shaver here as well. I got a lot of redness/irritation on my neck when I first started DE shaving.
I was able to determine a few causes:

•Shaving every day.
My face was fine but my neck wasn’t having it. Coming from having a beard for the better part of 20 years, my skin wasn’t used to any razor, let alone multiple passes with a DE razor.
It‘s gotten used to shaving after a few months, but I still choose to shave every other day because my skin seems to prefer it. If I do need to shave every day, I only do one pass on my neck.
Just as our hair is different, so is our skin. I’ve read/heard guys say they can shave 3 passes every day no problem, and others say their skin just doesn’t like it. (I’m not sure where I land, gonna wait till after a year of regular shaving to see how my skin adapts).

•Cold water > hot water.
I don’t know the science behind it, but I get a MUCH better shave with cold water. My skin loves it.
It’s quite nice with warmer weather, not as enjoyable in colder weather lol.

•Correct angle and pressure.
I was actually using too little pressure on my problem areas, causing the razor to hop, skip and pull.
In time, the correct angle and pressure becomes intuitive. Just takes practice.

•Proper lather. In the beginning my lather building skills suffered, I was making it too thick or too thin. I don’t know how much this attributed to the problem, but it certainly didn’t help it.


•Razor.
When I first start visiting here and reading, I couldn’t understand how one person could think a razor was the best razor in the world, and another say it shaved like crap and tore their face up.
Now having used 5 different razors, I understand. Some razors work great for you and you just click with them. Some don’t. But it takes trying different razors to find what really works best for you.
For example- Without listing all my razors, I’ll just say that my latest razor is the most efficient/aggressive of the bunch, yet I’m getting my best shaves & the least amount of irritation to date. The first shave with it was a revelation. But coming into the hobby, I thought a “mild” razor would be my preference and give me the least amount of irritation. Turns out my hair/skin might prefer a more efficient razor
Only way to know is to try different razors.
*(also, I’m convinced there’s a fair bit of batch/sample variation regarding razors and their specs, tolerances, etc. There’s definitely some duds. Same goes for razor blades).



This is the most YMMV hobby I’ve ever encountered. I don’t know if there’s any universal truths in shaving. It’s all a learning process to find what works best for you. You learn a little more with each shave, be it what to do or what not to do. Likewise, it takes trying different products to find the ones that work best for you.
Like most things in life, it ultimately just takes time to get really good at it and find your preferences.

That’s my “blind leading the blind” advice from one new guy to another

Thanks for sharing and you mentioned a bunch of things that I feel totally. The one thing I forgot to mention in my response to musician is I decided to take a day off today and try every other day shaves for now and give my skin a rest period. Like you said everyone’s skin is different and my neck, like yours, seems to not like the daily shave routine. So, I might see how every other day goes and increase over time. Great stuff I appreciate your time and responses!

 

[musicman1951]

Thank you much for the tips. I do believe, based on what you’re saying, that I am using too much pressure. I feel like I have to get more of the whiskers off than I am getting in my first pass or second pass. Sometimes trying to touch up along the way so I’ll stop this practice and see how I do with minimal pressure. I feel okay with the angle of attack for the most part. I struggled the first few times under the nose but starting shaving XTG and this works well. Is there anything saying I can’t go right into an ATG shave essentially to try to lessen my passes or does this not work well? It’s like once I make that first pass it’s hard to get the remaining whiskers cleaned off, it that makes sense. I’ll keep at it though because it’s a blast. I actually am enjoying shaving for the first time in my life and my wife is like “you’re shaving again, you’ve never shaved so much in 20 years” haha. Appreciate you all.

I suspect it depends on your beard. There are some people who do one ATG pass. For me that would be incredibly uncomfortable. Getting the rest cleaned off makes perfect sense, but it does suggest a slight change in razor angle to that part of the face might be a good idea - keep experimenting. Dragging the razor repeatedly over the same patch of skin is definitely not the way to go.

 

[blethenstrom]

Newer DE shaver here as well. I got a lot of redness/irritation on my neck when I first started DE shaving.
I was able to determine a few causes:

•Shaving every day.
My face was fine but my neck wasn’t having it. Coming from having a beard for the better part of 20 years, my skin wasn’t used to any razor, let alone multiple passes with a DE razor.
It‘s gotten used to shaving after a few months, but I still choose to shave every other day because my skin seems to prefer it. If I do need to shave every day, I only do one pass on my neck.
Just as our hair is different, so is our skin. I’ve read/heard guys say they can shave 3 passes every day no problem, and others say their skin just doesn’t like it. (I’m not sure where I land, gonna wait till after a year of regular shaving to see how my skin adapts).

•Cold water > hot water.
I don’t know the science behind it, but I get a MUCH better shave with cold water. My skin loves it.
It’s quite nice with warmer weather, not as enjoyable in colder weather lol.

•Correct angle and pressure.
I was actually using too little pressure on my problem areas, causing the razor to hop, skip and pull.
In time, the correct angle and pressure becomes intuitive. Just takes practice.

•Proper lather. In the beginning my lather building skills suffered, I was making it too thick or too thin. I don’t know how much this attributed to the problem, but it certainly didn’t help it.


•Razor.
When I first start visiting here and reading, I couldn’t understand how one person could think a razor was the best razor in the world, and another say it shaved like crap and tore their face up.
Now having used 5 different razors, I understand. Some razors work great for you and you just click with them. Some don’t. But it takes trying different razors to find what really works best for you.
For example- Without listing all my razors, I’ll just say that my latest razor is the most efficient/aggressive of the bunch, yet I’m getting my best shaves & the least amount of irritation to date. The first shave with it was a revelation. But coming into the hobby, I thought a “mild” razor would be my preference and give me the least amount of irritation. Turns out my hair/skin might prefer a more efficient razor
Only way to know is to try different razors.
*(also, I’m convinced there’s a fair bit of batch/sample variation regarding razors and their specs, tolerances, etc. There’s definitely some duds. Same goes for razor blades).



This is the most YMMV hobby I’ve ever encountered. I don’t know if there’s any universal truths in shaving. It’s all a learning process to find what works best for you. You learn a little more with each shave, be it what to do or what not to do. Likewise, it takes trying different products to find the ones that work best for you.
Like most things in life, it ultimately just takes time to get really good at it and find your preferences.

That’s my “blind leading the blind” advice from one new guy to another

I am so happy to hear that you are doing well on your shaving journey. Looks like you have learned a lot. This is great news.

 

[blethenstrom]

Thank you much for the tips. I do believe, based on what you’re saying, that I am using too much pressure. I feel like I have to get more of the whiskers off than I am getting in my first pass or second pass. Sometimes trying to touch up along the way so I’ll stop this practice and see how I do with minimal pressure. I feel okay with the angle of attack for the most part. I struggled the first few times under the nose but starting shaving XTG and this works well. Is there anything saying I can’t go right into an ATG shave essentially to try to lessen my passes or does this not work well? It’s like once I make that first pass it’s hard to get the remaining whiskers cleaned off, it that makes sense. I’ll keep at it though because it’s a blast. I actually am enjoying shaving for the first time in my life and my wife is like “you’re shaving again, you’ve never shaved so much in 20 years” haha. Appreciate you all.

There are some who can do ATG either as their first pass or after a WTG pass, but those people are fairly few. There are even clubs/brotherhoods here on B&B devoted to the ATG only etc. You can certainly try it, but you might experience lots of irritation. Remember that each pass that you make on your face is a whisker reduction pass, just so you do not have as much left for the ATG pass at the end. On the ATG pass the left over whiskers will pull the razor into your skin, because of the angle of them. This is the reason why you want to reduce them as much as possible first. Especially as someone starting out I would advise against trying to go ATG too quickly. Once you get your feet wet, the world is your oyster.

 

[Jaybyrd]

There are some who can do ATG either as their first pass or after a WTG pass, but those people are fairly few. There are even clubs/brotherhoods here on B&B devoted to the ATG only etc. You can certainly try it, but you might experience lots of irritation. Remember that each pass that you make on your face is a whisker reduction pass, just so you do not have as much left for the ATG pass at the end. On the ATG pass the left over whiskers will pull the razor into your skin, because of the angle of them. This is the reason why you want to reduce them as much as possible first. Especially as someone starting out I would advise against trying to go ATG too quickly. Once you get your feet wet, the world is your oyster.

Ahh makes sense no anatomically that I want to reduce the whiskers before I start with the close shave. I won’t try that then, I considered doing it thinking it would be less passes but I suppose if that worked everyone would already do it. I let my face rest for 48 hours so far, and even after just 24 hours, it looks much better. On to my next shave adventure tonight or tomorrow morning! Thank you all appreciate the support.

 

[StewB]

I started a thread a few months back about whether a "mild" razor is the best choice. Here's the link, in hopes it might be helpful:

Is a "mild" razor really what you need?

My experience with DE razors started in February 2022 so I've only been shaving with them for about a year and a half. Before that I used cartridge razors for probably more than 25 years. Needless to say I had bad shaving habits because cartridge razors tend to encourage too much pressure get a...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Jaybyrd]

I started a thread a few months back about whether a "mild" razor is the best choice. Here's the link, in hopes it might be helpful:

Is a "mild" razor really what you need?

My experience with DE razors started in February 2022 so I've only been shaving with them for about a year and a half. Before that I used cartridge razors for probably more than 25 years. Needless to say I had bad shaving habits because cartridge razors tend to encourage too much pressure get a...

www.badgerandblade.com

So ironic you posted this (I will go check it out in a few) because I just had the best wet shave since I started!! I had to take a picture of my sink area when I finished I was so happy. I deviated from the norm since I got so much razor burn last time. I used the Henson (mild) with a feather blade and products seen in the picture. I took advice from everyone here special thanks to @blethenstrom, @musicman1951, @Hopalong, @Proper Irish, @D T Law, @Jay21, and everyone else I missed that I’ve read posts and received comments from. The biggest thing I did differently, besides the blade change and new soap/cream & brush/bowl from @dotKomo was I used the lightest of pressure, so much so that I didn’t think it would work but it did and the razor and blade did their jobs beautifully with no nicks, weepers, or irritation (other than a mild sting from the alum). It wasn’t a BBS but I would say a DFS for me! So back to your comment, I was wondering if I used a more aggressive razor - eventually - would I get a closer to BBS shave. I don’t need BBS but just a bit closer because this time took me 3 passes and a couple touch ups but I am so happy and am hopeful that by decreasing pressure I can eliminate the irritation and redness while getting a DFS. Thanks again!