Question on MST Mueller Stones

[Acmemfg]

Some quick research says Eschers these ain't but...are they a decent stone for the money?? Doubtful I will ever find myself working out with J-Nats, I like my coticule and think my Naniwa SS set is OK. Welsh slate makes for a nice finisher (for me at least). Now I am looking to new horizons. One of these and maybe a Zulu Grey in the future (but if I recall, the Zulu Grey stone gets lackluster reviews and they are a tad spendy).

So, what says the brain trust on the Mueller Thuringian wannabes??

 

[Gamma]

There are mixed reviews on just about every stone out there - I've read all kinds of hype along with a good number of disparaging remarks about the MST stones. I've not had the pleasure of using one so I don't know. I've been tempeted a few times but never pulled the trigger.
Mostly because I've been fortunate enough to have stepped into good deals on real Thuris and Eschers all too often.

 

[ACorazza]

If I were you I would try to find a vintage thuringian first. I haven't had any experience with the MST ones but the vintage ones I've had have been very nice

 

[Alum of Potash]

I love the Mueller's water grind-stone. Mid-range to finisher in my book, and very easy to use. Coupled with a judicious use of a paste, a nice, lively edge is the result. One of the most under-rated stones out there.

 

[Gamma]

If I were you I would try to find a vintage thuringian first. I haven't had any experience with the MST ones but the vintage ones I've had have been very nice

^
This

 

[Doorsch]

I have to agee with Alum of Potash....a great pre-finisher which is in this thinking a very cheap one....i think about 24-34 Eur...and as been said absolutely underrated...

The vintage ones are in general finishing stones..

 

[Proinsias]

Yeah, it's a decent stone for the price, just don't expect a high end finisher. Mine is a fairly soft & muddy stone, it sees more action finishing high carbon knives than it does mid range razor work but it does the job there too. A slurry stone give it a bit more range.

 

[Doorsch]

Sorry think i have somethin to correct here, there are two Müllers around...

The first company is MST Müller
http://www.mst-mueller.de/

the other one is Friedrich Müller Schleifmittelwerk
http://www.schleifmittelwerk-friedrich-mueller.de

I ment and i think Alum of Potash also, the FMR Müller Water Grindstone....which looks like this...
http://www.olivia-seife.de/Messer-Dateien/muellerside-r.jpg

These are sometimes also sold by Herbertz....in a paper carton...

As far as i read the ones sold by MST are in another competition...these look like this:
http://www.wetzen-und-schleifen.de/images/artikel/big/013.10115.jpg

 

[Alum of Potash]

Sorry think i have somethin to correct here, there are two Müllers around...

I ment and i think Alum of Potash also, the FMR Müller Water Grindstone....which looks like this...
http://www.olivia-seife.de/Messer-Dateien/muellerside-r.jpg

These are sometimes also sold by Herbertz....in a paper carton...

Yes, that's the one I meant. Thanks for clarifying. Here's a shot of mine, purchased in France two years ago:

 

[SliceOfLife]

I had one or two. Very unimpressive stones. Imagine a softer Cnat with more imperfections and a slightly lower grit. That's a Mueller stone. They really are nothing like Thuringians. They fall in the camp of "sure you CAN shave off them... but why would you." I'd consider them a prefinisher at best, and they aren't fast or consistent enough to be a good option for that.

 

[Doorsch]

@slice: there are not use as a finisher...so these are pre finishing stones in the honing progression and they do their job well

What yould be your recommandation in the pre face as beeing constant and fast?

 

[SliceOfLife]

I suppose the prefinisher for most of my edges is a DMT 8k. My Jnat edges are usually a nagura progression, my synths are plenty fast to work off the DMT, as are thuri's. Coticules can work off anything. Arks are really the only stones I'd say I "pre-finish" with, and with them I usually use a 10k Sigma Power or a Thuringian.

If I wanted a good prefinisher (Say if a Spyderco or Arkansas were my only stones high grit enough to shave with), I'd go synthetic or a softer Jnat. I've gotten two <$40 jnats, one 330mate random, one from Japan@Home, neither stone strikes me as particularly special, and a third I paid $60 or so from Dicks for (generic Honyama Razor stone if memory serves). All three leave better edges than a Mueller stone, and are 2-3x faster if not more. A good synthetic in the 4-6k JIS range would fulfill the same purpose and be faster still. Adding more intermediate stones is only logical if they are fast, slates, with Thuringians being perhaps the only exception, aren't.

 

[Doorsch]

Thanks Slice for your explanation...

 

[Acmemfg]

Guess I'll stick with the Welsh slate. It does put a nice finish on a coticule blade. A handful of very light x strokes using just water brightens the Coticule edge (coming off that stone with a few very light x strokes and water) just enough. This is the set up I like for my more hollow blades (Ralf Aust, Boker Super Steel, Boker Edelweiss, and sometimes the Dovo Natural). The Hart, Dovo Palisander, TI 1937, TI Blades Grim, and Blades Grim Prototype all work out on the Naniwa ss 1k (if necessary), 5k, 8k, 12k progression. Not as smooth as the former, but plenty keen. Maybe one day I'll luck into a Thuringian or pick up a Zulu Grey just to see what they're all about.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I wouldn't buy a ZG. I haven't tried one, but reports from guys who have whose experience I trust has been lukewarm at best, and I see people listing them on eBay for months at a time trying to get 50-75% of retail selling them. I get the impression they were a fad that a few too many people spent a few too many dollars buying into and never really were worth half of what they sold for.