Nakayama Kiita Stones

[professorchaos]

I don't think the Nakayama edge needs improvement. Diamond pastes are known for being sharp but harsh. Chromium oxide is known for being smooth but not sharp enough. Nakayama stones are very sharp and very smooth. Proper stropping is all you should need afterward. I've found a strop with lighter draw to be best, something like horsehide, shell, or SRD Premium I.

Agreed. The two Nakayama's I have produce edges similar in sharpness to something between .5 and .25 diamond pastes. Much smoother. Much. I really don't know that you could improve on the edges they produce. Sharper? Perhaps if you have some mad honing skills. Smoother? Unlikely.

 

[huntmol]

I wasn't promoting pastes after the Nakayama, just linking to a thread that I found interesting - I still haven't tried one of these amazing stones yet, but I look forward to it!

 

[ambrose]

I just got my stone I bought from Telly's personal collection today. WOWOWOW is this stone impressive!!!. I took a shave ready razor that was polished off on .3 micron I believe that to be about 70k, I evaluated it with my powerful loupe. I then took it to the nakayama kiita, after a few minutes I reevaluated the edge. It was magical, a very fine very consistent scratch pattern way beyond the .3 micron. It was very nice mirrored edge, the shave was phenomenal. My brother was here who knows nothing of razors. I took another shave ready edge and asked him to look at it under the loupe before and after. He said wow all the little scratches are the same and much less deeper than before, he then tried to look at the edge with out the loupe and said man I cant even see the edge its too shiny. This guy knows nothing of razors and these are his thoughts. My guess is that this stone to be at 75k-85k++ I dont know of another stone that can both sharpen and polish the edge at the same time.

Im in line for another, I couldnt be happier. Oh and it smells like spicy leather.

 

[Kees]

Someone is fuelling our HAD here!

 

[TstebinsB]

I just got my stone I bought from Telly's personal collection today. WOWOWOW is this stone impressive!!!. I took a shave ready razor that was polished off on .3 micron I believe that to be about 70k, I evaluated it with my powerful loupe. I then took it to the nakayama kiita, after a few minutes I reevaluated the edge. It was magical, a very fine very consistent scratch pattern way beyond the .3 micron. It was very nice mirrored edge, the shave was phenomenal. My brother was here who knows nothing of razors. I took another shave ready edge and asked him to look at it under the loupe before and after. He said wow all the little scratches are the same and much less deeper than before, he then tried to look at the edge with out the loupe and said man I cant even see the edge its too shiny. This guy knows nothing of razors and these are his thoughts. My guess is that this stone to be at 75k-85k++ I dont know of another stone that can both sharpen and polish the edge at the same time.

Im in line for another, I couldnt be happier. Oh and it smells like spicy leather.

Stone grits and lapping film or paste grits aren't measured on the same scale. Also, the size and resistance of the abrasives are different. The stone may give a better polish because it has finer abrasive particles than whatever you used before. The abrasive particles of Japanese natural stones break down with use, which makes them work finer than their actual grit. With enough use, the same stone will continually give smoother edges and a better polish. The stone may be #30000 grit but work at much higher. These stones are very flexible in that sense.

The particles on whatever you were using - lapping film or paste - may be larger and don't break down so easily. It gives a more jagged or inconsistent scratch pattern.

 

[ambrose]

Stone grits and lapping film or paste grits aren't measured on the same scale. Also, the size and resistance of the abrasives are different. The stone may give a better polish because it has finer abrasive particles than whatever you used before. The abrasive particles of Japanese natural stones break down with use, which makes them work finer than their actual grit. With enough use, the same stone will continually give smoother edges and a better polish. The stone may be #30000 grit but work at much higher. These stones are very flexible in that sense.

The particles on whatever you were using - lapping film or paste - may be larger and don't break down so easily. It gives a more jagged or inconsistent scratch pattern.

exactly

 

[CraigJ]

How are folks using their Nakayama? soaked for an hour, bit of water on the surface, with slurry, dry?

So far I have only used mine dry with great results.

 

[Kees]

Water on the surface no soaking. They absorb very small amount of water. Need to store them dry though and protect the sides from absorption as it may crumble. The Japanese use special sealant for the unpolished sides of their natural hones.

 

[professorchaos]

How are folks using their Nakayama? soaked for an hour, bit of water on the surface, with slurry, dry?

So far I have only used mine dry with great results.

Whatever you do, don't soak a Japanese natural. All sorts of bad things can happen. Also, don't dry them in the sun or wind. As Kees said, they can crumble, crack or fall apart. All you need to do is spray some distilled water on the surface.

 

[TstebinsB]

Water on the surface no soaking. They absorb very small amount of water. Need to store them dry though and protect the sides from absorption as it may crumble. The Japanese use special sealant for the unpolished sides of their natural hones.

Whatever you do, don't soak a Japanese natural. All sorts of bad things can happen. Also, don't dry them in the sun or wind. As Kees said, they can crumble, crack or fall apart. All you need to do is spray some distilled water on the surface.

Yeah, what they said. I completely forgot to mention these things.

 

[TstebinsB]

I'd like to clarify a few things.

The plan was to test one or two trial stones from the dealer to verify quality and that he could get a stone to my exact specifications. Although no two natural stones are exactly the same, I wanted to get a bunch of stones that were pretty similar. Once I knew people were interested, I'd get permission from the moderators to do a group buy of similar stones, make a list of interested buyers, divvy up the stones, and call it a day. Well, not so fast my friend. (That's a classic Lee Corso line. )

Each member has specific preferences and tastes. It means that I have to go back and forth with the dealer to procure the stone that particularly fits each member's request. What was meant to be a general group buy has become a case by case affair. He's sifting through thousands of stones. It's very time-consuming for me and much more so for the dealer. I don't mind that much but the dealer definitely does.

As a result, I cannot add any more people to my list. If a group of people want similar stones, then the initial group buy process can take place. For now though, I will assist the few on my list and leave it at that. I apologize to anyone who feels slighted. That certainly was not my intention. Regards.

 

[Kees]

I am glad I am in! Thanks for the opportunity!

 

[TstebinsB]

Would you happen to know anything more about the Iyo Meshima Arinoki stones you have pictured (starting with the right hand picture in the second pair of photos,) I was going to buy one of these sometime ago, mainly because of the figuring, but was advised that they were a rough grit stone, although I'm willing to concede this may have been an error in translation between myself and the seller.

Regards,
Stew

Stew, I heard back from the dealer. The seller was accurate. These stones are all low grit stones.

 

[varanid]

Stew, I heard back from the dealer. The seller was accurate. These stones are all low grit stones.

I feared as much. They really are the most beautiful natural stones I've ever seen, but if I couldn't find a use for it I'm glad I didn't give into temptation before (I'll just keep telling myself that and eventually it will sink in.)

Thanks for finding out for me.

Kindest regards,
Stew

 

[TstebinsB]

This thread is not just about procuring a stone. It's also a discussion thread. If you have a Nakayama, whether from me or another source, use this thread to post photos, ask questions, or comment on your stone or your experience.

 

[Kees]

I am a bit of a prude, but if you really insist I'll for once post some hard core hone porn. I am warning you: adults only!
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[jzono1]

Got my Nakayama Kiita/Karasu Blend w/ Nashiji from TstebinsB today.

The first thing that struck me about it was the beauty. It's full of patterns and it's unique yet simple. Now it rests next to my chinese 12k and my norton 4/8k. It does something these other stones don't, it pleases the eye. It radiates calmness.

In use it's wonderfull. Cuts quite fast, and the feedback is intense, I can feel how the edge responds, and I feel how it develops across the blade. I started out with a somewhat sloppy edge on my wapi today, and I actually felt differences across the bevel which evened out as I worked on it.

I want coarser hones that look as good. I want to get rid of the ugly 4/8k. I'm usually immune to the ADs of shaving, but I might have picked up a HAD today.

Is there any affordable options if I want to go all natural with pretty stones up from say, 1000grit-ish?

 

[TstebinsB]

I am a bit of a prude, but if you really insist I'll for once post some hard core hone porn. I am warning you: adults only!
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That's a very valuable stone, especially with what looks like Nashiji in the bottom left.

Got my Nakayama Kiita/Karasu Blend w/ Nashiji from TstebinsB today.

The first thing that struck me about it was the beauty. It's full of patterns and it's unique yet simple. Now it rests next to my chinese 12k and my norton 4/8k. It does something these other stones don't, it pleases the eye. It radiates calmness.

In use it's wonderfull. Cuts quite fast, and the feedback is intense, I can feel how the edge responds, and I feel how it develops across the blade. I started out with a somewhat sloppy edge on my wapi today, and I actually felt differences across the bevel which evened out as I worked on it.

I want coarser hones that look as good. I want to get rid of the ugly 4/8k. I'm usually immune to the ADs of shaving, but I might have picked up a HAD today.

Is there any affordable options if I want to go all natural with pretty stones up from say, 1000grit-ish?

The really amazing patterns are in the lower grit stones but I'm not sure about pricing.

 

[jzono1]

Are lower grit natural hones durable?

 

[TstebinsB]

Are lower grit natural hones durable?

They aren't any less durable than finishing hones. A quality whetstone is a quality whetstone, regardless of the grit.