Is marriage as an institution Dying in the US?

[FarmerTan]

My wife and I were high school sweethearts. We've been together 29 years and married for 20 this year. We often wonder why other marriages fail and we just cant understand. We are truly blessed.

You nailed it on the head, in my proud opinion. I am assuming that you both consider yourselves blessed, because neither of you can understand why you have been blessed.

You are probably folks that werk it all out together, the good and the bad. If only one of you are pulling on the rope, the other is dead weight, and that gets old.

Thank God in His infinite wisdom that I didn't meet my wife in high skool. She'd a kilt me dead my friend! You are a couple to emulate.

 

[FarmerTan]

Why wife and I often say, "We wish that others enjoyed their marriages as much as we enjoy ours."

We always quote my Dad and his Irish wit: "at least by marrying each other we only ruined one good marriage!" He had the Spiritual Gift of being a funny pain in the.... hind quarters.

 

[FarmerTan]

Where is that @something better fella? He started all this!

Shoot, he's probably at his weekly marriage counseling session!?!

 

[TexLaw]

It's hard to say the "institution" is dying when it's already changed so very much over the centuries. It wasn't very long ago that marriage was the only way a typical woman could interact with society in any meaningful manner. It wasn't very long ago that an unmarried woman would be prosecuted for intimate relations outside of marriage. It wasn't long ago that a child born out of wedlock had little or no rights to inherit property and was, essentially, an outcast.

It wasn't until 1968 that a married woman in Texas could start a business, open a bank account, sell community property, or enter into any contract without her husband's consent. If she

Of course, the stigma of divorce wasn't much better, at least as far as a woman was concerned.

Fortunately, none of that is much the case any longer. A side effect of that, for better or for worse, is that there is far less societal pressure to be married (or stay married). "Marriage" today is a largely different institution than it was in America even as little as 50 years ago. If you could talk to an American at the turn of the 19th century, they likely wouldn't even recognize what we regard as "marriage" today.

 

[ChriWilson]

When my first marriage ended, and I realised I had been well and truly taken to the cleaners, the mediator told me not to worry as men usually recover financially within 5 years of a divorce settlement. 5 years! Usually! It’s been 10 years now and I am still feeling the financial ripples. Not worth it!

I cannot see how that holds true, definitely not here in California

I'm still sittin' here trying to remember what a hominem is.

Don't you find that in some spicy soups ?

We didn't have much money when we started out, but we are laughing just as much as we ever did. Joy is different than happiness. My son married almost two years ago at 21. His marriage has made him an even better man than I thought.

If marriage in America is dying, so is this kountry. Every day is a gift. And the older I get, the more precious it is. I pray I never have to werry any about getting married again, because I'm a firm believer that the best wife for me is the one from my youth, and my youth sure ain't coming back!

We are stepping into our 28th this year.
Honestly - it has been work, a lot of work over the years as we refined as adults and expanded our careers and business and juggled family responsibilities and priorities. It has been worth every second and would do it all over again with my wife.

I think the issues we're seeing or are about to realize are relative to the current gen's "Work Effort" and a difference in priority and perspectives.

For example - Do you know what a "Situationship" is ?

 

[The Knize]

I asked my wife what she wanted for her birthday and she said "I want a divorce!"

I had to tell her "I was not thinking of spending quite that much!"

 

[BudgetShaverGuy]

Women are turning out to be really great businessmen.

 

[rbscebu]

This thread has me realising why divorce is not allowed (legally) in the Philippines.

 

[The Knize]

I cannot see how that holds true, definitely not here in California

My understanding is that most states have adopted pretty cut and dried guidelines for property division and very limited alimony. Child support is different.

I think marriage and matters relating to marriage have evolved a large in recent decades.

 

[something better]

You may want to take a look at Gender pay gap in U.S. hasn’t changed much in two decades - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/01/gender-pay-gap-facts/ for more information on the gender pay disparity issue.

As for the studies you referenced, please provide links to them so we're on the same page. Personally, I'' not aware of any studies supporting your arguments (but that can very much be due to my own ignorance of the issues).

Finally, while there is likely a gender bias concerning child custody in many jurisdictions, I've never really seen the data nor any studies on that matter, either. I will say that my understanding is the courts will decide custody based on what it determines to be in the best interest of the children. Given that American social norms are and have historically heavily focused on child-rearing being the responsibility of the mother, it stands to reason there's some gender bias there. The solution to that is obvious, we need to stop demanding that women be the primary caregivers for children. In other words, society must start to demand men pull their weight as parents beyond just "bringing home the bacon;" including recognizing stay-at-home-dads as an equal and viable alternative to the "traditional" stay-at-home-mom. Once parenting is seen as being -gender-specific, it's highly likely that child custody will be less skewed in favor of women.

As for your final point, I'm afraid I don't follow how criminal law has any bearing on family law (even assuming arguendo that your statement is factually correct).

The gender pay gap has been pretty thoroughly explained in this article:

Harvard Study: "Gender Wage Gap" Explained Entirely by Work Choices of Men and Women | John Phelan

“The gap of $0.89 in our setting,” the authors concluded, “can be explained entirely by the fact that, while having the same choice sets in the workplace, women and men make different choices.”

fee.org

But that is not what is generally meant by the phrase “gender wage gap.” Instead, the commonly reported figure—that a woman earns 80 cents for every dollar earned by a man—is derived by taking the total annual earnings of men in the American economy in a given year and dividing that by the number of male workers. This gives you the average annual earnings of an American man. Then you do the same thing but for women. The average annual women’s earnings come in at about 80 percent of the average annual man’s earnings. Presto, you have a gender wage gap.

That’s it, honestly. It isn’t much above back-of-a-cigarette-box stuff. This methodology takes no account whatsoever of a whole host of factors that might explain this discrepancy. It ignores the fact that according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), in 2017, men worked an average of 8.05 hours in an average day compared to 7.24 hours for women.

True, women are more likely to be raising children, taking care of elderly family members, or doing housework, leaving them with fewer hours in the day for paid employment. But this does not alter the essential fact: that people working fewer hours, on average, can be expected to earn lower incomes, on average.

Not Exactly Apples-to-Apples​

And there are differences in the type of work men and women do, which bears on their earnings. BLS data shows that, in 2017, 94 percent of child day care services workers were female, the highest percentage of any category, and that the mean annual wage of childcare workers was $23,760. By contrast, just 2.9 percent of workers in logging were women, the lowest share of any category, and the mean annual wage here was $42,310.

They have simply assumed a cause and carried out a slightly grander version of the back-of-a-cigarette-box calculation to support it.

 

[something better]

Where is that @something better fella? He started all this!

Shoot, he's probably at his weekly marriage counseling session!?!

I wish marriage counseling worked. Most women aren’t interested in making the marriage last, there’s too much financial gain in getting divorced.

Here is another thought to ponder.

of the 100 wealthiest women in England, only two became wealthy from their own work or business, the rest from divorce or inherited.

More than 100 women now on Rich List - but just TWO have made their own fortunes and most have inherited or won millions from divorce

Many were wealthy from inheritance or shared their wealth with their husbands, while some gained their fortunes from divorce settlements.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[something better]

My understanding is that most states have adopted pretty cut and dried guidelines for property division and very limited alimony. Child support is different.

I think marriage and matters relating to marriage have evolved a large in recent decades.

I’ve heard other people make similar arguments. My brother recently went through a divorce, in a southern state. Custody was split I think 55 to 45% it sounds good on paper, but the reality is every single dispute thus far that has went to court has been ruled in favor of the exwife.

His ex-wife is an attorney and she could live and work in the same city. However, she chose to move an hour away and now my brother hast to drive and pick up his kids to and from school 2 hours a day. Because she gets to choose the school. He fought this in Family Court, but lost.

Even though my brother paid for her to go to law school and she didn’t work the last few years of their marriage, he still has a large child support payment every month. She encourages most of her clients to pay in cash to have a lower reported income so she can continue to get child support payments.

The money that’s paid in child support a percentage is used to fund judges, retirement salary.

I don’t think the system treats men fairly. And I’ve seen a number of men treated similar to my brother.

Men who were faithful and tried to make their marriage work, and their wife simply divorced them and tried to get as much money in child support and alimony as they could.

 

[ChriWilson]

My understanding is that most states have adopted pretty cut and dried guidelines for property division and very limited alimony. Child support is different.

I think marriage and matters relating to marriage have evolved a large in recent decades.

But to say that a man recovers a 50% reduction in 5 years time makes no sense to me. I can see someone on the short-end of that exercise finding themselves picking up consumer debt rapidly.

Maybe I'm missing something and someone can elaborate for me.

 

[something better]

Women are turning out to be really great businessmen.

The alimony and child support laws were created in the 1950s when the majority of women did not work outside of the home.

They were created because they did not anticipate women marrying and divorcing for financial gain but that’s what has happened.

 

[Go West Young Man]

The alimony and child support laws were created in the 1950s when the majority of women did not work outside of the home.

They were created because they did not anticipate women marrying and divorcing for financial gain but that’s what has happened.

In California, there's an online calculator... child support is a fixed % of the difference between your declared incomes weighted by custody %. There's literally no negotiation needed, and it's eminently fair to both parties,

 

[something better]

In California, there's an online calculator... child support is a fixed % of the difference between your declared incomes weighted by custody %. There's literally no negotiation needed, and it's eminently fair to both parties,

And in my opinion, this is one of the primary reasons women fight to get custody because they get a larger payment.

In 90% of divorces women get custody. 76% of fathers pay child support. 98% of the people receiving alimony are women. 70% of divorces are initiated by women.

 

[silverlifter]

And in my opinion, this is one of the primary reasons women fight to get custody because they get a larger payment.

So, in your opinion women care more about money than their offspring. Perhaps that is why your relationships are so unsatisfactory?

 

[something better]

So, in your opinion women care more about money than their offspring. Perhaps that is why your relationships are so unsatisfactory?

If a woman is better off financially, getting divorced then what motivation does she have to stay in a marriage and try to make it work? that’s in a nutshell the problem.

My marriage didn’t work, because my ex-wife chose to have a relationship with a married man at her work. Had nothing to do with my views on marriage.

Of course the fact that she cheated I still was forced to pay alimony. That’s our Family Court system at work.

 

[silverlifter]

If a woman is better off financially, getting divorced then what motivation does she have to stay in a marriage and try to make it work? that’s in a nutshell the problem.

That's your failure to conceive of a relationship that is not motivated solely, or even primarily, by financial gain.

 

[BudgetShaverGuy]

That's your failure to conceive of a relationship that is not motivated solely, or even primarily, by financial gain.

You can call it a failure but I will call it protecting myself and all the assets I worked my *** off to get!