Is a "mild" razor really what you need?

[KW Driver]

Understood. I'm just posting what has worked for me in the hopes it might help someone else.

You might find in a few years that you can do a less aggressive razor with better results.

I started mild, transitioned to a Fatip, then to straights, picked up a Gem for quickies. 10 odd years later I grabbed a Tech and a week or so later was getting flawless, easy, comfortable shaved with a Feather, and Astra SP.

For me, technique is everything and dialing in a specific tool’s idiosyncrasies and using good technique results in good shaves.

You’ve admitted to using a tool that forgives your bad or imperfect technique. Nothing wrong with that, because you recognize it. It may do all you need it to do forever more. And that’s fine too. Revisit things every couple of years and you may find your taste changes.

I haven’t touched my Fatip in better than 10 years and if I want a DE shave I’ll grab the Tech for an utterly BBS and irritation free, no thought needed shave.

 

[JimmyJoeMeeker]

For me, technique is everything and dialing in a specific tool’s idiosyncrasies and using good technique results in good shaves.

Yeah, dialing in an R41's idiosyncrasies and using good technique results in great shaves.

But I'm not sure I'd say the same of the disposable they give you at the front desk of a Motel 6.

 

[JPO]

The less pressure used, the more heavier razor and aggressive blade gap that is needed.

For those who learn the art & skill of how and when to use pressure?

There’s no such thing as a mild razor.

Why is this not discussed more. A "mild" razor can be quite efficient when pressure is utilized correct, and a moderate amount of skin stretching is used.
Even a Blackbird razor can feel quite mild when it is used as the designer intended. The same applies for the Henson +++ plate. If you avoid the temptation go shave at a steep angle, they are actually easier to use then most traditional mild razors.
Mild but at the same time really efficient.

 

[ButterfaceX]

Yes we all so different with unique needs/goals/results. I relax during all my shaves and have one goal.. enjoy it..
With the right mindset, tool (s), technique and "consistency "you might get more then "needed"....
BFX

 

[OkieStubble]

You might find in a few years that you can do a less aggressive razor with better results.

I started mild, transitioned to a Fatip, then to straights, picked up a Gem for quickies. 10 odd years later I grabbed a Tech and a week or so later was getting flawless, easy, comfortable shaved with a Feather, and Astra SP.

For me, technique is everything and dialing in a specific tool’s idiosyncrasies and using good technique results in good shaves.

You’ve admitted to using a tool that forgives your bad or imperfect technique. Nothing wrong with that, because you recognize it. It may do all you need it to do forever more. And that’s fine too. Revisit things every couple of years and you may find your taste changes.

I haven’t touched my Fatip in better than 10 years and if I want a DE shave I’ll grab the Tech for an utterly BBS and irritation free, no thought needed shave.

Great post. I use a Shavette 94% of the time, SE 2%, Trac II 2% and a DE 2% When it's a DE, It's usually a mild Chinese Super Blue I got for $4, which is basically a very thin and light Tech head with a plastic handle. The art and skill of knowing when, where and how much pressure to use gives me flawlessly smooth & close shaves.

 

[OkieStubble]

Why is this not discussed more. A "mild" razor can be quite efficient when pressure is utilized correct, and a moderate amount of skin stretching is used.
Even a Blackbird razor can feel quite mild when it is used as the designer intended. The same applies for the Henson +++ plate. If you avoid the temptation go shave at a steep angle, they are actually easier to use then most traditional mild razors.
Mild but at the same time really efficient.

I agree. I don't personally understand many others logic on aggressive and mild razors. If an "supposedly" 'aggressive razor' is really heavy and has a wide blade gap that one must use 'negative pressure' (holding back on the weight) to keep it from taking off the upper surface layer of their epidermis?

What's the difference between this and using a "supposedly" 'mild razor' with a small gap and lightweight and just learning how to use pressure and get the exact same amount of aggressiveness and closeness? I can peel the skin off an apple with any mild razor I have, just by using pressure?

The only difference between them I logically see? Is one can choose an overly heavy razor with wide blade gap and let the weight and gap shave them while they try controlling the weight and aggressiveness of the gap by 'negative pressure'; versus using a lightweight razor with a small gap and instead of trying to control the weight of a heavy razor, just learning how, when and why and where of using the right amount of 'positive pressure.'

 

[DesertIguana]

Think the back and forth Mild verses Aggressive will never be settled. I know there are people with what I will call very thick beards who need some extra might to remove their beards. I am not one of them any longer, my personal beard is not heavy any longer it has thinned out like my hair with age.

I personally do not need or like aggressive razors, I have time when shaving to do a second pass. I am not seeking the grail BBS, as my skin is also old and thin.

My only problem once in a great while is waking up to find when I call a WILD HAIR that being one thick hair, and one normal hair growing out of same place. If I can pull the THICK one life is great, the thick one is the one that hurts like hell when I touch it with my surgical tweezers.

I can locate and pull pull the WILD one, is my mission until complete.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I agree. I don't personally understand many others logic on aggressive and mild razors. If an "supposedly" 'aggressive razor' is really heavy and has a wide blade gap that one must use 'negative pressure' (holding back on the weight) to keep it from taking off the upper surface layer of their epidermis?

What's the difference between this and using a "supposedly" 'mild razor' with a small gap and lightweight and just learning how to use pressure and get the exact same amount of aggressiveness and closeness? I can peel the skin off an apple with any mild razor I have, just by using pressure?

The only difference between them I logically see? Is one can choose an overly heavy razor with wide blade gap and let the weight and gap shave them while they try controlling the weight and aggressiveness of the gap by 'negative pressure'; versus using a lightweight razor with a small gap and instead of trying to control the weight of a heavy razor, just learning how, when and why and where of using the right amount of positive pressure.

I think the difference is how easy it is to get a close shave when you are still developing your technique. A more aggressive razor will be more forgiving of sub-optimal shaving angles, and the overall damage to your skin may still be less than going over your skin repeatedly or pressing harder with a milder razor because your angle was off.

The other difference is perhaps the way the razor feels. It is possible to prefer the more tactile feel of an exposed blade scraping your face. At one point I thought I did but I grew tired of it and now I prefer a gentle shave so long as there is enough feedback to make my shave involving rather than numb - though this can come from the sound rather than blade feel.

 

[OkieStubble]

I think the difference is how easy it is to get a close shave when you are still developing your technique.

While this would seem to make sense? What beginner do you know, who are learning and developing 'their technique', starts off with a heavy aggressive razor with a wide blade gap? While I'm sure, there are a couple of rare anomalies in newbie's out there, I have been here since 2010 and the lion's share of those beginner's start with vintage Gillette Super Speeds or Merkur 34's? It's rare to find someone starting with an R41?

I would suggest another scenario: Beginner's start out with mild razors and are told, "not to use pressure". While this is excellent advice for newbie's who are just looking to complete a DE shave unscathed with no cuts, rash, or irritation, they learn to complete their shaves and begin to gain confidence from consistency after a few weeks.

However, This is where I have seen the learning tree in what we do here start to breaking it's branches in regards to 'developing technique?' After that newbie gets to the intermediate place of consistent shaves with their beginner's mild razors? They naturally begin now, to not just wanting to complete a non injury shave, but they now; start to seek out "a closer shave"?

However, they have learned NOT to use pressure? Now; NOT using pressure, has been ingrained into their "newbie technique"

They are now told by others, they need a more aggressive razor? This simply is not completely true and accurate, but they don't realize they need to or could; just "develop" furthering their technique into learning how to use pressure?

Think about this for a moment... When a newbie, who has just spent a couple of months learning technique with a mild razor, and then switches to a much heavier razor with a wide blade gap? That razor will be too harsh and aggressive unless they do what? They now have to learn the technique of using, "negative pressure"? Why? Because instead of sticking with their mild razor and now learning to use, light pressure and getting to know their face of when and where and how much to do this?

They instead have to learn, how and where to keep the weight of that heavy, cumbersome razor and wide blade gap from digging in to the surface of their skin by learning 'negative pressure'? Which is learning how to hold the total weight of a heavy razor back away from their face a certain amount during their shave?

A more aggressive razor will be more forgiving of sub-optimal shaving angles, and the overall damage to your skin may still be less than going over your skin repeatedly or pressing harder with a milder razor because your angle was off.

I disagree. A more aggressive razor is usually by design, bigger, fatter and much heavier. It's too clumsy and not articulate and surgical enough in the finer movements under motion, in order to easily move around the delicate and slight curvatures of the face and skin, instead of just plowing right over the top of those area's. Lighter and more milder razor's are superior in this.

I would love to see a statistical analysis done on the percentages of those who began DE shaving and switched to straight shaving. I would maybe bet money on those who switched from learning to control pressure with light razors having an easier transition to doing the same thing with a Straight or Shavette than those who have gotten used to thinking that "No Pressure" and heavy razors was or should have been "permanent lifetime advice" Instead of realizing, "no pressure" advice was only meant for beginners and newbie's.

Pressure during the shave, is not the "boogeyman" it's been made out to be. Using pressure, is called 'advanced technique' for experienced and expert shavers who 'know their face' and know how to expertly shave it. Those who use and depend on heavy razors with wide blade gaps are experts in using, 'negative pressure', because they have to expertly keep a heavy, clumsy razor that can't be moved in a articulate way, from digging in and giving them an overly aggressive shave with red, inflamed surface skin.

If you ask me, it takes more talent and skill to keep the heavy weight and wide blade gap from tearing your skin up; then it would for a newbie beginner, to just keep their mild razor they learned their new technique on and now? just advance to the next level in technique development, by beginning to use pressure and learning their face in knowing where, how much and why they are doing it, into getting a closer shave.

It sure would save them a bunch of money, instead of the endless searching of which heavy razor? And which brand razor with wider blade gap works best for them?

I know I got to be ticking off vendors who sell these razors, but I swallowed the blue pill instead of the red pill.

"The truth is out there Neo." -Morpheus

The other difference is perhaps the way the razor feels. It is possible to prefer the more tactile feel of an exposed blade scraping your face. At one point I thought I did but I grew tired of it and now I prefer a gentle shave so long as there is enough feedback to make my shave involving rather than numb - though this can come from the sound rather than blade feel.

I agree with this. I purchased an R41 when they first were all the rage. I think this is where I realized, I would enjoy learning the skill of 'positive pressure' with a lighter razor and smaller blade gap during my shave more; than the skill of 'negative pressure' with a heavier razor and wider blade gap.

 

[thombrogan]

What beginner do you know, who are learning and developing 'their technique', starts off with a heavy aggressive razor with a wide blade gap?

I did. With a heavy aftermarket handle, too (but not a long handle), and a sampler including Feather Hi-Stainless blades.

I think @Avi did, too. I think our under chin ATG scars match.

He learned quicker than me.

I relearn all the time.

 

[OkieStubble]

I did. With a heavy aftermarket handle, too (but not a long handle), and a sampler including Feather Hi-Stainless blades.

I think @Avi did, too. I think our under chin ATG scars match.

He learned quicker than me.

I relearn all the time.

Well, you da man! But also, one of the few anomalies of newbie's where most; start out with vintage or modern milder razors and learn 'no pressure".

 

[thombrogan]

Razors with more blade support that allow a very shallow angle work best for me. They’re usually vintage or niche razors.

Starting with an R41 was because it was a bright light and I’m part moth on my father’s side.

 

[Never Picked]

There are general advice protocols that are done for the safety of a new user. With that being said, some do fine with a Futur(or Futurish) razor starting out. Also, it may be hard to go no pressure with an all aluminum build or a largely plastic build razor.

 

[KW Driver]

Plan

Yeah, dialing in an R41's idiosyncrasies and using good technique results in great shaves.

But I'm not sure I'd say the same of the disposable they give you at the front desk of a Motel 6.

Plan better? Two is one and one is none, and don’t put all your eggs in one basket for the important stuff.

I run a Trac II with Personna carts for carry on commercial flights. I get a great shave. DE? Give me a week and I can make it hum. ’06-07-ish Fatip? Flawlessly good but aggressive if you don’t pay attention. ‘11 R41? Super aggressive and exfoliating. Didn’t think I’d ever get faster with it than a straight so I passed it on because I wanted to test drive one as a quicker alternative to a straight. MMOC, same boat, hyper-aggressive with anything more than a mid count-near it’s end blade. Feather shavette? Flawless after a day or two of weepers because it doesn’t flex like a hollow straight.

Cheap disposable I never use? Probably a disappointingly acceptable shave. A week later? Maybe ok. Did you disprove my point?

 

[emwolf]

When I came back to DE shaving about 10 years ago I was very attracted to aggressive razors. Now, the mild ones seem to fit what I need better.

 

[StewB]

While this would seem to make sense? What beginner do you know, who are learning and developing 'their technique', starts off with a heavy aggressive razor with a wide blade gap? While I'm sure, there are a couple of rare anomalies in newbie's out there, I have been here since 2010 and the lion's share of those beginner's start with vintage Gillette Super Speeds or Merkur 34's? It's rare to find someone starting with an R41?

Well, I used an R41 about 6 months in and got a great shave. A couple of months before that, I used a Dart quite successfully and got a great shave also. I do agree that most new DE shavers probably start with "mild" razors.

I disagree. A more aggressive razor is usually by design, bigger, fatter and much heavier. It's too clumsy and not articulate and surgical enough in the finer movements under motion, in order to easily move around the delicate and slight curvatures of the face and skin, instead of just plowing right over the top of those area's. Lighter and more milder razor's are superior in this.

The key is here "usually." This isn't always true, of course. According to Mühle, the standard R89 and R41 razors (with the same handle) are the same weight (64g). In fact, I pair my stainless steel R41 head (which is a bit, but not a lot, heavier than the cast metal R41 head) with Mühle's lightweight tortoiseshell handle. Excellent combination for me (and definitely not bigger, fatter, or much heavier).

I also agree that better technique with a "mild" razor can get just as good results as an "aggressive" razor, and I fully concede that my technique just isn't good enough (yet?) to get as close of a shave with "mild" razors. I'm totally fine with that.

As I said in my original post: This was only "for consideration." If it doesn't work for you, that's totally fine! Neither of our experiences are universal for everyone. The point is to get great shaves using whatever tools work the best for you.

 

[DesertIguana]

Well when I first started shaving we did not have the option available in 2023. Razors, blades, soaps, foams, pre shave stuff, and last what I call post shave smells.


We had mild razors by Gillette mostly, blue blades and maybe 1 - 3 more blades, a brush was a brush, and soap was in pucks. Pucks were in over sized coffee mugs we wet soap, applied, and shaved.

Technique was learning by doing, and cuts n bucks were part of learning process.

Mild does one thing well, cut beard sort of close a preclude to pass two or three. For what I call good shave.

Be happy you in 2023 with so many choices, not in 1962 with few choices.

But in 62 we got good shaved with out the internet, we learned by doing, know of no one who bled to death.

 

[OkieStubble]

Well, I used an R41 about 6 months in and got a great shave. A couple of months before that, I used a Dart quite successfully and got a great shave also. I do agree that most new DE shavers probably start with "mild" razors.

6 months sounds about right. What did you begin with?

The key is here "usually." This isn't always true, of course. According to Mühle, the standard R89 and R41 razors. (with the same handle) are the same weight (64g). In fact, I pair my stainless steel R41 head (which is a bit, but not a lot, heavier than the cast metal R41 head) with Mühle's lightweight tortoiseshell handle. Excellent combination for me (and definitely not bigger, fatter, or much heavier).

Would you use the same amount of pressure with the R41 as you would with the R89, even though they are the same weight?

I also agree that better technique with a "mild" razor can get just as good results as an "aggressive" razor, and I fully concede that my technique just isn't good enough (yet?) to get as close of a shave with "mild" razors. I'm totally fine with that.

Does your technique with mild razors, include using pressure?

As I said in my original post: This was only "for consideration."

As my post also, is only considered "for consideration." I think this probably qualifies most everyone's posts, as this is why we post? "to consider things and perspectives"?

" If it doesn't work for you, that's totally fine! Neither of our experiences are universal for everyone.

Pretty sure, I have never argued against this point?

The point is to get great shaves using whatever tools work the best for you.

Sounds good to me brah? I think I even said; "some will use 'negative pressure' with heavy razors and/or wider blade gaps and some will use 'positive pressure' with lighter razors and/or thinner blade gaps. Tomato/Potato, ymmv and all that stuff is always the known standard operating procedure here that everyone should automatically presume?

 

[OkieStubble]

Plan

Plan better? Two is one and one is none, and don’t put all your eggs in one basket for the important stuff.

I run a Trac II with Personna carts for carry on commercial flights. I get a great shave. DE? Give me a week and I can make it hum. ’06-07-ish Fatip? Flawlessly good but aggressive if you don’t pay attention. ‘11 R41? Super aggressive and exfoliating. Didn’t think I’d ever get faster with it than a straight so I passed it on because I wanted to test drive one as a quicker alternative to a straight. MMOC, same boat, hyper-aggressive with anything more than a mid count-near it’s end blade. Feather shavette? Flawless after a day or two of weepers because it doesn’t flex like a hollow straight.

Cheap disposable I never use? Probably a disappointingly acceptable shave. A week later? Maybe ok. Did you disprove my point?

We both have followed a very close path in our progression of the same razors. I had the 11' R41 and a Fat Tip Piccolo. I think they are what finally pushed me to straights, because I wanted that kind of close shave, but I also wanted more control of getting the blade closer against my whiskers and more control of keeping the blade farther away off of my skin for less irritation. I find I can do this best with a straight or shavette.

I used a Feather SS for quite a few years, but got tired of spending money on the Artist Club professional blades, so I got rid of the AC SS and several Injectors along the way, so I didn't have to obtain Injector blades anymore either. So I only use shavettes with DE half blades now. Much more economical & minimalist for me. I still have a GEM MMOC, but as my tastes have shifted to lighter razors, the lighter GEM Push Button is the only SE I use.

Like you, I love the close shaves I get from my Trac II while traveling. It pretty much stays in the dopp kit, even when traveling by automobile. Where do you get your Personna carts from when you want to re-supply? I have had a bunch of Wilkinson Sword Super II Plus carts over the years, but they discontinued long ago and I'm getting low.

 

[GrizzlyCA]

I appreciate this post. There are a lot of razors out there and I am thankful for options.
I am 1.5 years into using a DE razor. I learned on a 34c and Gamechanger.68 using mild blades.
I learned over time I prefer sharp blades and higher blade exposure. My current daily driver is a Lupo.95. Call me crazy, but I want to get a feather dx and a vector…
I will also say that I totally enjoy my more mild Gamechanger.84 with a Kai blade for auto pilot shaving. That is my weekend setup almost always.