Intermittent Fasting

[commanderkeen]

Hello all.

Found out about intermittent fasting last weekend. Basically, intermittent fasting (from now on IF) is a diet protocol where one eats during predetermined eating 'windows'. There are various ways to perform IF; 16 hour fasts with 8 hour windows (leangains.com), 24 hour fasts followed by 24 hour eating windows (stop-eat-stop), or many other methods. This is one of the diet protocols that make sense to me, I've tried the 6 meals a day, 3 meals a day, restricted calories, restricted carbs (not extreme like Atkins) but have always gotten burned out on them. This was especially true with 6 meals a day as it is a huge hastle to prepare the meals. There are also various studies that indicate that fasting for at least 12-16 hours has various benefits affecting hormones like insulin, HGH, testosterone, leptin, etc. These hormonal benefits have various health benefits. Coincidentally 12-16 hours is approximately the time it takes for ketosis to start-up (especially with moderately low carb intake or intense exercise that drains glycogen storage without refilling them afterwards with carbs).

I'm not going any deeper into it as I'm no expert and there are better resources to get information on IF.

Well, I'm trying it out. I'm basically doing lean gains style protocol, allowing an eating window between around 12 and 6 pm. I am flexible and if I play golf, I break the fast around 1-2 pm and then allow myself to eat until 8pm. In addition to this, I'm slightly restricting calories, although I am not too fussy about this as I also plan to do a 36 hour fast about once per week. The reason I like this is because it is easy, I basically eat 1 big meal a day followed by 1 or 2 smaller meals. Outside the window I don't have to think about food and go about my business. My goal is to lower my BF%, which is probably between 15-20% right now. Currently, I am playing golf as my main form of exercise, I will start up in the gym again in 2 weeks (various reasons why not tomorrow).

Read/learn more about IF here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting
http://www.leangains.com
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting
http://https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA2D4E8A91B027274&feature=plcp

 

[cb91710]

The main thing is that this serves as a tool to restrict calories.
If you are only eating during an 8 hour window, when you are otherwise active, you are not allowing yourself the time to snack and load up on empty calories from junk.

The science of weight management is simple.
3800 calories = One Pound.

Burn 3800 calories more than you take in and you'll lose a pound.
Consume 3800 calories more than you burn and you'll gain a pound.

Everything else is a matter of manipulating your metabolism. Without taking steps to increase your metabolic rate, all attempts at weight loss will fail. You NEED a properly balanced diet. You NEED at least a minimum amount of physical activity. You don't have to lift massive weights, you don't have to run 10k every weekend (though it would be a great idea to total 10k every week).

Lean muscle mass is more dense than fat. Keanu Reeves is considered obese by Federal BMI guidelines, but his body fat percentage is very low so even though he is "heavy", he is not "fat".
Lean muscle mass also requires more calories to maintain, so two people, both 220 pounds, but one being 12% body fat and one being 25% body fat, might burn 2200 and 1200 calories per day respectively simply sitting on the sofa watching TV.


There are no "easy tricks" or "shortcuts".
They've all been tried and tweaked and evangelized for the last 50 years and none are both healthy and sustainable.
The only "easy advice" is "Eat less, move more"

Increase your intake of water. Not only is hydration good for the body, it will also serve as an appetite suppressant. Don't like the "taste" of water? Go with a weak iced tea blend. Cold, refreshing, SOME flavor, but not enough caffeine in a weaker blend to promote dehydration... and caffeine is a spike for your metabolism, but don't overdo it or it will interfere with your sleep patterns.
Walk away from ALL soda, including diet soda. Artificial sweeteners can be as bad as sugar for the body... and even "non diet" drinks are flavored with high fructose corn syrup and not with natural cane sugar/sucrose.

Satisfy your sweet tooth with fruits and minimally processed fruit juices.

 

[commanderkeen]

The main thing is that this serves as a tool to restrict calories.
If you are only eating during an 8 hour window, when you are otherwise active, you are not allowing yourself the time to snack and load up on empty calories from junk.

The science of weight management is simple.
3800 calories = One Pound.

Burn 3800 calories more than you take in and you'll lose a pound.
Consume 3800 calories more than you burn and you'll gain a pound.

Everything else is a matter of manipulating your metabolism. Without taking steps to increase your metabolic rate, all attempts at weight loss will fail. You NEED a properly balanced diet. You NEED at least a minimum amount of physical activity. You don't have to lift massive weights, you don't have to run 10k every weekend (though it would be a great idea to total 10k every week).

Lean muscle mass is more dense than fat. Keanu Reeves is considered obese by Federal BMI guidelines, but his body fat percentage is very low so even though he is "heavy", he is not "fat".
Lean muscle mass also requires more calories to maintain, so two people, both 220 pounds, but one being 12% body fat and one being 25% body fat, might burn 2200 and 1200 calories per day respectively simply sitting on the sofa watching TV.


There are no "easy tricks" or "shortcuts".
They've all been tried and tweaked and evangelized for the last 50 years and none are both healthy and sustainable.
The only "easy advice" is "Eat less, move more"

Increase your intake of water. Not only is hydration good for the body, it will also serve as an appetite suppressant. Don't like the "taste" of water? Go with a weak iced tea blend. Cold, refreshing, SOME flavor, but not enough caffeine in a weaker blend to promote dehydration... and caffeine is a spike for your metabolism, but don't overdo it or it will interfere with your sleep patterns.
Walk away from ALL soda, including diet soda. Artificial sweeteners can be as bad as sugar for the body... and even "non diet" drinks are flavored with high fructose corn syrup and not with natural cane sugar/sucrose.

Satisfy your sweet tooth with fruits and minimally processed fruit juices.

There was a lab study using rats as subjects that sort of disproves the calorie in, calorie out theory. They had a control that ate whenever and a experimental group that was allowed only 8 hours to eat. Both groups ate as much, but the 8 hour (IF group) had lower BF and higher lean body mass then the control group at the end of the experiment. I don't have the link to it and I do realize that rat studies do not always translate to humans. Also, a gram of protein and a gram of carbohydrates both contain 4 calories, but the thermic effect of protein is higher so you are effectively only getting 2.5-3 calories from the gram of protein while you would get 3.5-4 calories from the carb.

I don't mean to negate your post, I just want to point out that the caloric effects of food are not fully understood. With that said, the calorie in, calorie out method is the most accurate way to calculate weight loss/gain. I would like to stress that IF is not a diet, it is a protocol that you can use with any diet you choose fits your lifestyle.

Good basic information in your post for anyone interested in nutrition and losing weight, thanks for taking the time to write it up.

 

[Oblique Human]

I eat once a day at dinner time. I have a cup of tea in the morning, I eat a bowl of fruit (about a dozen cubes of whatever...watermelon, mangoes, apples) in the afternoon. Another cup of tea at 6 pm, then 7:30 pm, dinner around 8:30. My waist is between 32-33, I never weigh myself. I smoke yet jog about 4.5 kilometers every afternoon. Wife thinks I'm crazy, I feel light and dangerous and... its a bit hard the first week but once you condition yourself, it becomes second nature.

 

[SEnSE]

There was a lab study using rats as subjects that sort of disproves the calorie in, calorie out theory. They had a control that ate whenever and a experimental group that was allowed only 8 hours to eat. Both groups ate as much, but the 8 hour (IF group) had lower BF and higher lean body mass then the control group at the end of the experiment. I don't have the link to it and I do realize that rat studies do not always translate to humans. Also, a gram of protein and a gram of carbohydrates both contain 4 calories, but the thermic effect of protein is higher so you are effectively only getting 2.5-3 calories from the gram of protein while you would get 3.5-4 calories from the carb.

I don't mean to negate your post, I just want to point out that the caloric effects of food are not fully understood. With that said, the calorie in, calorie out method is the most accurate way to calculate weight loss/gain. I would like to stress that IF is not a diet, it is a protocol that you can use with any diet you choose fits your lifestyle.

Good basic information in your post for anyone interested in nutrition and losing weight, thanks for taking the time to write it up.

The difference in those 2 groups has nothing to do with calorie in vs calorie out. It's about insulin. Insulin is a fat storing hormone. The more that is up, the more fat you will store. By limiting your calories to a specific time frame, yet not limiting the # of calories you are in effect decreasing the amount of time that your insulin levels are high enough to store fat rather than allowing your body to burn fat. Thus the group that did IF had better body mass because there was less fat stored due to a decreased amount of insulin. So now if you add up the affects of insulin as well as restricting your calories while doing IF, then you can easily see why it's so beneficial in a short period of time.

 

[RaiserLiebe]

The science of weight management is simple.
3800 calories = One Pound.

Burn 3800 calories more than you take in and you'll lose a pound.
Consume 3800 calories more than you burn and you'll gain a pound.

Amen now and forever. My only issue with diets that do work, but are exotic (cabbage soup, Atkins, ad nauseum), is that they do NOT create healthy habits that are sustainable for life. To maintain the weight we want that is a healthy weight we need to exercise more, eat less, watch the quality of what we eat (3800 calories of Doritos every day is not good), cut down on caffeine and very sweet items, etc..

My weight yo-yo's over the years. The most success in slow, maintainable weight loss I have had is with WeightWatchers, because they teach and reinforce healthy habits. No crash diets!

Cheers!

 

[cb91710]

then you can easily see why it's so beneficial in a short period of time.

Bingo.

These programs are not sustainable over the long term.

Had someone a couple of months ago who was going on some bizarre sleep schedule and he was a wreck after a week. While doing it, he swore that he felt better and everything was great, but from reading his posts it was apparent that he was seriously messed up.

Same with these alternative diet/schedules/programs...
They might be effective in the short term, but they are not sustainable for extended periods.
One of two things will happen... The body will adjust to the new program and you're back to square-1, or the system crashes.
Widely fluctuating insulin levels are not good.
They might be tolerable for someone who works in a cubicle, but it's not going to work for someone who is involved in physical labor, or temperature variations.

 

[Argonaut]

I eat once a day at dinner time. I have a cup of tea in the morning, I eat a bowl of fruit (about a dozen cubes of whatever...watermelon, mangoes, apples) in the afternoon. Another cup of tea at 6 pm, then 7:30 pm, dinner around 8:30. My waist is between 32-33, I never weigh myself. I smoke yet jog about 4.5 kilometers every afternoon. Wife thinks I'm crazy, I feel light and dangerous and... its a bit hard the first week but once you condition yourself, it becomes second nature.

That's what I want to feel!
EDIT: My wife already thinks I'm crazy, this wouldn't even get noticed.

 

[Oblique Human]

Jason, that is just some (probably) bad science eating/fasting regimen I've concocted for myself, I DO NOT recommend you try it. I have these weird genes which make me gain and lose weight equally fast. The same doesn't work for my brother.

I underwent surgery about 2 years back, they removed my gallbladder...gallstones. Thing is, after the surgery, I understandably lost a lot of weight and my waist went down from 36 to 34. I felt good during the recovery and even better after. But the weight came back fast so I just adopted this drastic routine to keep the wiry me a bit longer and, strangely, it has been working out so far. I do let go for a week every 2 months, have lunch as well but still no unhealthy snacks. But even then, I've noticed I don't need to binge, my body still only craves the amount of food/calories that I consume during the single meal days.

 

[commanderkeen]

The difference in those 2 groups has nothing to do with calorie in vs calorie out. It's about insulin. Insulin is a fat storing hormone. The more that is up, the more fat you will store. By limiting your calories to a specific time frame, yet not limiting the # of calories you are in effect decreasing the amount of time that your insulin levels are high enough to store fat rather than allowing your body to burn fat. Thus the group that did IF had better body mass because there was less fat stored due to a decreased amount of insulin. So now if you add up the affects of insulin as well as restricting your calories while doing IF, then you can easily see why it's so beneficial in a short period of time.

Sure it does. Conventional wisdom says that everything you eat in excess of your maintenance calories gets stored as fat. Both groups ate the same amount of calories but the IF group did not store as much fat as the control. There was virtually no difference in exercise between the groups. Insulin probably explains this, as you've said.

As for IF not being maintainable, that is hogwash. It is as maintainable as eating normally. I'm not restricting calories. I eat pretty much as much as I feel like I need. The calorie restriction comes from fasting for a fullday (about 3000 calories a week).

 

[Go West Young Man]

It's not as simple as "eat 3800 fewer calories, lose a pound". There have been a lot of studies showing that some bodies react to fewer calories by lowering it's metabolism and aggressively holding onto what calories do come in, while others react by losing weight quickly. It's partly genetic, partly learned in early childhood.

 

[Commander Quan]

I use Intermittent Fasting as part of my Paleo lifestyle, and I think it has benefits beyond just restricting food intake. I don't have a set schedule for when or how often I fast, I just make it up as I go along. If I'm hungry I eat, If not I won't, but at no point is the goal to starve yourself. A normal fast for me is anywhere from 18-36 hours, but I have gone as long as ~45ish. Intermittent Fasting also adds stress to the body. It's a good idea avoid IFing if you are dealing with other stresses in your life which will have caused already elevated cortisol levels.

This is the part where some of you may need to put your tin foil hats on...

If you decide to give it a shot, the first thing you'll want to do is restrict carbohydrates for a couple weeks. This doesn't mean to fill yourself on burger king hamburgers without the buns, but you will want to cut out grains, yes even the so called "healthy" whole grains. Reduce fruit to one serving a day, and it should be a fibrous fruit not watermelon or the like, leafy greens are unlimited, but if you're eating salads you don't want the dressing to be full of sugar. Fat is your friend, especially Monosaturated Fat from animal sources, nuts (a peanut isn't a nut) olives avocados, and avoid the highly processed hydrogenated oils. If you maintain carbohydrate levels below 50 grams your body to start producing, and adapt to run on ketones. Once this happens your golden to start experimenting with Intermittent Fasting.

 

[commanderkeen]

Just went to an Inbody 720 measurement (Bio-impedance). My results were pretty good all around.

I'm at 14.0% fat, and my muscle mass is above normal ranges in total and all parts of my body. The only concerns are that my Waist-to-hip ratio is too high and my visceral fat is too high. The visceral fat measurement is not exactly what it claims to be, it is an approximation of the surface area of the internal organs compared with normal measurement. I have always had a little bit of a distended stomach and I think it could be a gluten sensitivity issue. That would explain the high visceral fat as a gluten sensitivity would cause an inflammation of the small intestine increasing the surface area. I'm going to go on a gluten-free diet for the next month and a half and go back to the testing to see if my visceral fat measure has come down, if it has, I would be correct in my thinking that gluten is the enemy.

Hope all of you are hard at work improving your bodies and that you are hitting your goals. For anyone who is not familiar with bio-impedance measurement, it is a process where electrical signals are passed through your body (this one was a 4-point machine, so feet and hands) at different frequencies and the output from those signals is analyzed and interpreted by the machine to get body-composition measurements. Sounds complicated but it's not and the accuracy is pretty good with the higher end machines (2-3% off on all measures if certain guidelines are followed before the test).

 

[Chico]

These programs are not sustainable over the long term.

I do not believe that. I know that there are several persons using this for months to go on. There is a great thread on this on bb.com. What could help in between, is to do a two day "bulking" period, this could help you to exceed plateaus.

 

[COHunter]

Eat Healthy + Exercise Regularly = Die anyway.
.....now where'd I leave that deep fried bacon cheeseburger and cigarette??

Just a bit of levity... ok, the second sentence...

 

[Illadelphia]

It's actually 3500 cals per lb.

The main thing is that this serves as a tool to restrict calories.
If you are only eating during an 8 hour window, when you are otherwise active, you are not allowing yourself the time to snack and load up on empty calories from junk.

The science of weight management is simple.
3800 calories = One Pound.

Burn 3800 calories more than you take in and you'll lose a pound.
Consume 3800 calories more than you burn and you'll gain a pound.

Everything else is a matter of manipulating your metabolism. Without taking steps to increase your metabolic rate, all attempts at weight loss will fail. You NEED a properly balanced diet. You NEED at least a minimum amount of physical activity. You don't have to lift massive weights, you don't have to run 10k every weekend (though it would be a great idea to total 10k every week).

Lean muscle mass is more dense than fat. Keanu Reeves is considered obese by Federal BMI guidelines, but his body fat percentage is very low so even though he is "heavy", he is not "fat".
Lean muscle mass also requires more calories to maintain, so two people, both 220 pounds, but one being 12% body fat and one being 25% body fat, might burn 2200 and 1200 calories per day respectively simply sitting on the sofa watching TV.


There are no "easy tricks" or "shortcuts".
They've all been tried and tweaked and evangelized for the last 50 years and none are both healthy and sustainable.
The only "easy advice" is "Eat less, move more"

Increase your intake of water. Not only is hydration good for the body, it will also serve as an appetite suppressant. Don't like the "taste" of water? Go with a weak iced tea blend. Cold, refreshing, SOME flavor, but not enough caffeine in a weaker blend to promote dehydration... and caffeine is a spike for your metabolism, but don't overdo it or it will interfere with your sleep patterns.
Walk away from ALL soda, including diet soda. Artificial sweeteners can be as bad as sugar for the body... and even "non diet" drinks are flavored with high fructose corn syrup and not with natural cane sugar/sucrose.

Satisfy your sweet tooth with fruits and minimally processed fruit juices.

 

[The Count of Merkur Cristo]

Eat Healthy + Exercise Regularly = Die anyway.
.....now where'd I leave that deep fried bacon cheeseburger and cigarette??

Just a bit of levity... ok, the second sentence...

COHunter:
And I'll also add a bit of levity...the Mrs. and I only fast during Lent.

"The best of all medicines is resting and fasting". Benjamin Franklin

 

[Ikaponthus]

There was a lab study using rats as subjects that sort of disproves the calorie in, calorie out theory. They had a control that ate whenever and a experimental group that was allowed only 8 hours to eat. Both groups ate as much, but the 8 hour (IF group) had lower BF and higher lean body mass then the control group at the end of the experiment. I don't have the link to it and I do realize that rat studies do not always translate to humans. Also, a gram of protein and a gram of carbohydrates both contain 4 calories, but the thermic effect of protein is higher so you are effectively only getting 2.5-3 calories from the gram of protein while you would get 3.5-4 calories from the carb.

I don't mean to negate your post, I just want to point out that the caloric effects of food are not fully understood. With that said, the calorie in, calorie out method is the most accurate way to calculate weight loss/gain. I would like to stress that IF is not a diet, it is a protocol that you can use with any diet you choose fits your lifestyle.

Good basic information in your post for anyone interested in nutrition and losing weight, thanks for taking the time to write it up.

There's been almost one-hundred years worth of metabolic controlled ward studies that prove it is - broadly speaking - all about calories.

Low fat, fasting, low carb, keto, atkins, whatever, are all just diet fads.

No medically controlled, metabolic ward study (as opposed to a "free living" study, where participants just report back to the researches what they allegedly ate and exercised) has ever demonstrated that there is any metabolic advantage in energy consumption (and weight loss) by eating low carb/fat or protein.

You don't hear about this stuff because "eat less and move more" doesn't sell diet books. It doesn't get people excited and motivated. It's not very sensationalist and it's kinda boring. But for my 2c, it's the only way to go. The same is true in reverse if you're trying to put on weight.

I don't believe it's quite so black-and-white as "3500 calories = 1 pound", but it's definitely about calorie manipulation one way or the other.

 

[JaDo]

I try to do IF once or twice a week. It's not that hard. Eat dinner then don't eat until dinner the next night.

I've found that in addition to some health benefits, there is more awareness of impulses and signals of being hungry. So, instead of eating a big breakfast or lunch just because it seems like the thing to do, I will pare it back and eat only a moderate amount of food because I feel more aware of how much I'm consuming and when I've had enough.

 

[SEnSE]

TBH I fast daily for about 6-8 hours. Most of you may call it sleep, but I call it IF!